Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[jjenny]

Now that the SW is unsealed, I do wonder if the ME will change manner of death for Max. I bet he does.

JMO

What in the world makes you think ME didn't have this information prior to autopsy? The doctor who made his observation based on visible injuries hardly beats the results of the autopsy that show damage to the spinal cord which is consistent with cardiac arrest and brain swelling.

 

[jjenny]

Can someone please humor me and tell me at what point (date) the police were contacted and then became involved regarding Dr Peterson's suspicions about Maxie having suffocated? And provide the source of this info, please? I am very confused about who was told what and when in this timeline.

By chance, is there a factual timeline published in any of these threads? Thanks!

I am confused myself. The search warrants have been released but I can not find the actual warrants, and the articles written are very confusing in terms of timeline. Anyone has a link to actual search warrants? During the press-conference police claimed the hospital contacted them on July 14th to say that Max' condition worsened, and they went there at that time.
So maybe that's when the search warrants were obtained?

 

[CDS22]

This doesn't say anything about some shopping extravaganza. XZ was leaving and might have needed things for her trip.

I used the word "shopping trip", not "shopping extravaganza". My post was in response to someone asking if RZ really went shopping with XZ.

 

[deanna82437]

I am confused myself. The search warrants have been released but I can not find the actual warrants, and the articles written are very confusing in terms of timeline. Anyone has a link to actual search warrants? During the press-conference police claimed the hospital contacted them on July 14th to say that Max' condition worsened, and they went there at that time.
So maybe that's when the search warrants were obtained?

The warrants are in the media links forum.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148814&page=3

 

[CDS22]

Can someone please humor me and tell me at what point (date) the police were contacted and then became involved regarding Dr Peterson's suspicions about Maxie having suffocated? And provide the source of this info, please? I am very confused about who was told what and when in this timeline.

By chance, is there a factual timeline published in any of these threads? Thanks!

The SW says that after 4 days of testing, the doctor believed that MS was suffocated. That doesn't mean he didn't contact the authorities immediately, but it does indicate that surely after 4 days of testing, they requested the SW.

 

[deanna82437]

Can someone please humor me and tell me at what point (date) the police were contacted and then became involved regarding Dr Peterson's suspicions about Maxie having suffocated? And provide the source of this info, please? I am very confused about who was told what and when in this timeline.

By chance, is there a factual timeline published in any of these threads? Thanks!

Here is a timeline put together by one of the members.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149582"]Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[SunnieRN]

I think the M.D. would not tip the parents to his findings right away and would leave it to police to interview and find out the details. I do agree with you that the concern would have been expressed very quickly and the parents were no doubt alarmed and angry. I sure would be.

JMO

Agreed. If this was truly a case of child abuse, everyone would have been investigated. That means not only Rebecca and XZ, but Max's parents and anyone else who had access to Max.

Therefore, they should not have been told of possible suffocation that the md thought may have occurred, early on.

So, this leads me to a question. What made Dina think that Max could have possibly been suffocated? Did the doctor break protocol and talk to Dina early in the case? Prior to his final determination?

 

[jjenny]

The warrants are in the media links forum.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148814&page=3

Thanks. So during the press conference LE claimed they were called to the hospital on July 14th because Max's condition worsened, while before they had reports Max was stable. When from the search warrants it appears they were called to the hospital because the doctor was suspicious that visible injuries were not consistent with cardiac arrest and brain swelling.

 

[CDS22]

The SW says the doctor "expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall". (page 5 of the third thumbnail in the SW link).

What gets me about that quote is that he specifically says suffocation may have occurred PRIOR to the fall. How could he fall if he were suffocated?

 

[jjenny]

The SW says the doctor "expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall". (page 5 of the third thumbnail in the SW link).

What gets me about that quote is that he specifically says suffocation may have occurred PRIOR to the fall. How could he fall if he were suffocated?

The doctor said that after days of testing he couldn't find the cause for cardiac arrest. Which tells me that the doctor did not find out about the extensive spinal cord damage Max had, because that certainly can cause cardiac arrest.

 

[SunnieRN]

XZ lives in Missouri. RZ took her to the airport. Prior to the airport, she took her on a shopping spree. Prior even to that, XZ went to the clinic for stitches since she was injured. She left before she was due back for another appointment to remove the sutures. So very, very strange.

And get this - "She saved him", according to the Zahau family lawyer's blog, was really written as "She save him". Broken English from a non-native English speaker, perhaps?

This is where the quote concerning a 'shopping spree' occurred. I would like to say, that we have no idea what was purchased, or for what reason. XZ had been cut the previous day. Had she gotten blood on her clothing and Rebecca replaced it? Antibiotics for XZ leg injury? A magazine and a pack of gum for XZ to bring on the plane? It is unknown and therefore not fair to refer to it as a 'shopping spree'.

 

[justbetweenus]

IIRC a poster with inside info posted that DS hired a private investigator to do a search on Rebecca, then after receiving his report, she didn't want her to be alone with Max. Do I have this right? If so, has anything come to light what was in that report from the PI that made her feel this way? Would be very interesting to know.

 

[Boodles]

Agreed. If this was truly a case of child abuse, everyone would have been investigated. That means not only Rebecca and XZ, but Max's parents and anyone else who had access to Max.

Therefore, they should not have been told of possible suffocation that the md thought may have occurred, early on.

So, this leads me to a question. What made Dina think that Max could have possibly been suffocated? Did the doctor break protocol and talk to Dina early in the case? Prior to his final determination?

That's my point. So the innuendo/allegations by some that anger (resulting from the speculation about suffocation) on the part of one or both of the parents was a motive to murder Rebecca is faulty. They didn't know about Dr Peterson's suspicion of suffocation until the warrant content was released, which was just recently. Is it a fact that Dina stated this or is it rumor?

That's not to say I don't question whether Rebecca was murdered. I do question the circumstances. But an anger motive based on the S's thinking that Rebecca suffocated Maxie is not viable, IMO.

 

[jjenny]

That's my point. So the innuendo/allegations by some that anger (resulting from the speculation about suffocation) on the part of one or both of the parents was a motive to murder Rebecca is faulty. They didn't know about Dr Peterson's suspicion of suffocation until the warrant content was released, which was just recently. Is it a fact that Dina stated this or rumor?

That's not to say I don't question whether Rebecca was murdered. I do question the circumstances. But an anger motive based on the S's thinking that Rebecca suffocated Maxie is not viable, IMO.

The poster verified as having inside information posted a while back DS believed Max was suffocated. So DS presumably knew about suffocation theory long before search warrant was released. Just because we found out about this from the search warrant doesn't mean everybody did, does it?

 

[CDS22]

The poster verified as having inside information posted a while back DS believed Max was suffocated. So DS presumably knew about suffocation theory long before search warrant was released. Just because we found out about this from the search warrant doesn't mean everybody did, does it?

The SW wasn't issued til after RZ died.

 

[SunnieRN]

That's my point. So the innuendo/allegations by some that anger (resulting from the speculation about suffocation) on the part of one or both of the parents was a motive to murder Rebecca is faulty. They didn't know about Dr Peterson's suspicion of suffocation until the warrant content was released, which was just recently. Is it a fact that Dina stated this or is it rumor?

That's not to say I don't question whether Rebecca was murdered. I do question the circumstances. But an anger motive based on the S's thinking that Rebecca suffocated Maxie is not viable, IMO.

Dina has been saying Max was suffocated for a long period of time now. Why would she think this, if the doc had not broken protocol and told her? Seems as if it could be a good motive for murder.

 

[jjenny]

The SW wasn't issued til after RZ died.

But when did the doctor start having these suspicions? The child had visible injuries, cardiac arrest and brain swelling from day one, which are the three factors doctor based his suspicions on.

 

[CDS22]

The SW says they were looking for "canceled mail, social security number, driver's license number, prescription bottles or other forms of identification". Does anyone know what the significance of that would be?

 

[Wendy101]

This is where the quote concerning a 'shopping spree' occurred. I would like to say, that we have no idea what was purchased, or for what reason. XZ had been cut the previous day. Had she gotten blood on her clothing and Rebecca replaced it? Antibiotics for XZ leg injury? A magazine and a pack of gum for XZ to bring on the plane? It is unknown and therefore not fair to refer to it as a 'shopping spree'.

I am the one who called it a shopping spree. Meaning good time, not worried.. like media just reported....,"Xena said she was fine. It was a bad thing that happened to Max . . . but (Rebecca) didn't blame herself,"

http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...-declines-shacknai-request.html#ixzz1YoVLVUbe

 

[justbetweenus]

Dina has been saying Max was suffocated for a long period of time now. Why would she think this, if the doc had not broken protocol and told her? Seems as if it could be a good motive for murder.

I really don't think the dr. would breaking protocol by telling the childs mother what he thought when the child was in someone elses care other then her.