Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[SunnieRN]

The SW says the doctor "expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall". (page 5 of the third thumbnail in the SW link).

What gets me about that quote is that he specifically says suffocation may have occurred PRIOR to the fall. How could he fall if he were suffocated?

If you could post the exact quote I would appreciate it as there are a lot of 'at first' and 'may' comments circulating. TIA!

 

[CDS22]

That's my point. So the innuendo/allegations by some that anger (resulting from the speculation about suffocation) on the part of one or both of the parents was a motive to murder Rebecca is faulty. They didn't know about Dr Peterson's suspicion of suffocation until the warrant content was released, which was just recently. Is it a fact that Dina stated this or is it rumor?

That's not to say I don't question whether Rebecca was murdered. I do question the circumstances. But an anger motive based on the S's thinking that Rebecca suffocated Maxie is not viable, IMO.

The insider didn't post the information about DS thinking MS was suffocated until after RZ was dead. I presume the doctor didn't say anything to DS until afterwards, but that's jmo.

 

[jjenny]

I really don't think the dr. would breaking protocol by telling the childs mother what he thought when the child was in someone elses care other then her.

I don't know about protocol, but I am pretty sure DS was never a suspect in this suffocation theory since she was not even there when the accident took place.

 

[MyBelle]

What in the world makes you think ME didn't have this information prior to autopsy? The doctor who made his observation based on visible injuries hardly beats the results of the autopsy that show damage to the spinal cord which is consistent with cardiac arrest and brain swelling.

I think you are confusing the uneducated conclusions of a blogger with the educated conclusions of real doctors. Nowhere in that AR does the ME make a conclusion about the cause of the cardiac arrest Max suffered nearly a week earlier from which he was revived. The child didn't die from the same cardiac arrest nor did his spinal injuries kill him. And please stop implying the ICU Chief didn't do any testing on the child. The SW clearly proves he did.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

JMO

 

[SunnieRN]

When a medical person, teacher or other mandated reporter suspects child abuse, they are not allowed to tell anyone of their suspicions, other than CPS. CPS makes the decisions involving the child and investigating allegations at that point.

 

[jjenny]

I think you are confusing the uneducated conclusions of a blogger with the educated conclusions of real doctors. Nowhere in that AR does the ME make a conclusion about the cause of the cardiac arrest Max suffered nearly a week earlier from which he was revived. The child didn't die from the same cardiac arrest nor did his spinal injuries kill him. And please stop implying the ICU Chief didn't do any testing on the child. The SW clearly proves he did.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

JMO

Hah? AR clearly states the cause of death as ... due to resuscitated cardiopulmonary arrest due to cervical spinal cord contusion... It's all right there in the autopsy report.

 

[SmoothOperator]

The demo shows exactly how all of his injuries could have occurred, along with representing accurately how easily the chandelier infact did come down along with Max, and due to the spinal cord injuries and their severe extent is consistent with cardiac arrest. Thereby disproving the doctor's mistaken opinion of what he believed to be inconsistent. The doctor obviously wrong and this was clearly seen upon a thorough autopsy revealing the true extent to Max's severe injuries.. It is why we do not have anyone after the thorough autopsy refuting any of the findings.. Due to their all fitting and consistent with the very violent fall demonstrated below.

 

[MyBelle]

That's my point. So the innuendo/allegations by some that anger (resulting from the speculation about suffocation) on the part of one or both of the parents was a motive to murder Rebecca is faulty. They didn't know about Dr Peterson's suspicion of suffocation until the warrant content was released, which was just recently. Is it a fact that Dina stated this or is it rumor?

That's not to say I don't question whether Rebecca was murdered. I do question the circumstances. But an anger motive based on the S's thinking that Rebecca suffocated Maxie is not viable, IMO.

We don't know when the doctor shared his concerns with Max's parents. I think he didn't right away because that would additionally traumatize them to know his suspicions. I would think that also might affect the LE investigation. I'm betting that LE tipped them off long before the SW was made public.

And I do agree with you that it isn't a viable theory to believe these parents murdered the woman. I live in a major metro area that has seen several cases of child deaths and injuries while in the care of babysitters. Never has a parent murdered the babysitter. Every one has been prosecuted and sent to prison for many years.

JMO

 

[greenpalm]

I am of the opinion that the doctor suspected pre-fall suffocation because there were no neck fractures visible on an x-ray or imaging, but that the autopsy revealed the injuries to the spinal cord, which resulted in the cardiac arrest, which resulted in the no-pulse no breathing for 30 minutes, which in turn resulted in the brain swelling, which finally is what killed Maxie. They couldn't see the brain stem and spinal cord damage until the autopsy, at which point the suffocation suspicions were removed.

What's confusing is the order in which we obtained the information. It wasn't given to us after the autopsy because it was irrelevant. MOO

 

[SmoothOperator]

As far as abrasions vs. lacerations this is extremely likely given the interior walls the Spreckles mansion are identical to mine in texture and color with interior stucco.. When Max came down in this violent fall, as is shown ^above^ in the demo he quite likely would have made contact with this stucco wall.. Which I can attest causes severe abrasions as anyone can see for themselves by running their hand along interior out outdoor textured stucco.. It is more than capable
Of making abrasions from light to extreme depending on the amount of pressure behind the body part coming into contact with the rough stucco..

 

[CDS22]

I am of the opinion that the doctor suspected pre-fall suffocation because there were no neck fractures visible on an x-ray or imaging, but that the autopsy revealed the injuries to the spinal cord, which resulted in the cardiac arrest, which resulted in the no-pulse no breathing for 30 minutes, which in turn resulted in the brain swelling, which finally is what killed Maxie. They couldn't see the brain stem and spinal cord damage until the autopsy, at which point the suffocation suspicions were removed.

What's confusing is the order in which we obtained the information. It wasn't given to us after the autopsy because it was irrelevant. MOO

What's your take on Max's death?

 

[MyBelle]

I really don't think the dr. would breaking protocol by telling the childs mother what he thought when the child was in someone elses care other then her.

He wouldn't be breaking protocol because she had a right to know but I think doing so would serve no purpose other than to add to her already incredible emotional stress.

JMO

 

[Wendy101]

Did I read somewhere that Maxi was told not to ride his scooter in the hall??

Wonder if he was riding his scooter and went over the railing at great speed?

 

[CDS22]

Did I read somewhere that Maxi was told not to ride his scooter in the hall??

Wonder if he was riding his scooter and went over the railing at great speed?

How would he gain the velocity on carpeting? Also, there is no proof he rode the scooter in the hallway. RZ and XZ claim they heard no sounds until RZ heard one crash.

 

[SunnieRN]

We don't know when the doctor shared his concerns with Max's parents. I think he didn't right away because that would additionally traumatize them to know his suspicions. I would think that also might affect the LE investigation. I'm betting that LE tipped them off long before the SW was made public.

And I do agree with you that it isn't a viable theory to believe these parents murdered the woman. I live in a major metro area that has seen several cases of child deaths and injuries while in the care of babysitters. Never has a parent murdered the babysitter. Every one has been prosecuted and sent to prison for many years.

JMO

LE tipped them off prior to the SW becoming public? What did they tip them off about? The ME had already determined cause of death.

 

[justbetweenus]

He wouldn't be breaking protocol because she had a right to know but I think doing so would serve no purpose other than to add to her already incredible emotional stress.

JMO

Thanks...I agree.

 

[JBean]

Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community