Discussion Thread #61 ~ the appeal~

[JudgeJudi]

Court rises so Masipa can consider her decision.

 

[zwiebel]

Karyn Maughan (@karynmaughan) tweeted at 8:28am - 13 Mar 15:

Roux says he needs leave to argue that* Masipa was wrong to grant state right to appeal in the first place #OscarTrial @eNCAnews (https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/576283787954413569?s=17)

 

[zwiebel]

Karyn Maughan (@karynmaughan) tweeted at 8:30am - 13 Mar 15:

Judge says she needs a few minutes to decide whether to strike #OscarAppeal application. We adjourn @eNCAnews (https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/576284252842692608?s=17)

 

[sorrell skye]

My take on this: Roux wants permission from the Court to argue before the SCA that the State's appeal is based on a matter of fact, and not on a matter of law.

 

[zwiebel]

So it's going to be a quick decision!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Roux said the trial court made a finding in granting the application to the state in December that the issues raised could be matters of law.

The court was right to dismiss the state’s attempt to secure leave to appeal against the five-year sentence, Roux adds.

But he says he must have leave from this court in order to argue in the supreme court that the state challenge over the murder charge acquittal is based on matters of fact, not law.

 

[zwiebel]

Don't know if this makes it any clearer...

Roux goes on – he says the trial court made a finding in granting the application to the state in December that the issues raised could be matters of law.

The court was right to dismiss the state’s attempt to secure leave to appeal against the five-year sentence, Roux adds.

But he says he must have leave from this court in order to argue in the supreme court that the state challenge over the murder charge acquittal is based on matters of fact, not law.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...istorius-defence-state-appeal-thrown-out-live

 

[katydid23]

So if she denies Roux, then he can still go to higher courts, correct?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I suspect she'll deny the application and let it all be decided at the SCA. But then again, this is the OP case, so ...

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, snap Judgejudi! Sorry.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi Zwiebel, long time no see. I had to delete 2 posts because you beat me to it. I thought we'd have a lot more people here today.

 

[zwiebel]

Outside the court, there has been some controversy ahead of this hearing concerning the “privileges” apparently afforded to Pistorius inside Kgosi Mampuru II prison, where he is serving his sentence.

Reports have claimed*that authorities at the jail have upgraded his status from category B to category A, meaning he is now entitled to make more phone calls, wear jewellery, own a radio, and hug his visitors – the last apparently confirmed by his brother,*Carl Pistorius:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...istorius-defence-state-appeal-thrown-out-live

 

[JudgeJudi]

Katy, he should be able to do this when the SCA hears Nel's appeal.

To clarify what this was just about, Roux isn't appealing the State's leave to appeal. He's lodged an application with Masipa to ensure that at the appeal at the SCA the defence can argue against the State's appeal.

 

[zwiebel]

Hi Zwiebel, long time no see. I had to delete 2 posts because you beat me to it. I thought we'd have a lot more people here today.

Me too. I kept thinking I got the day wrong, then I saw BB was doing a live radio interview about it, early this am.

 

[zwiebel]

Just as an aside, while the appeal was taking place, there was another completely confusing story going on about police chief Dramat resigning -breaking news all over. Then, suddenly, he wasn't!?

http://m.ewn.co.za/2015/03/13/Police-Ministry-Anwa-Dramat-has-not-resigned

 

[atthelake]

:waiting: :waiting: I'm sleeeeeepy, very very sleeeeeepy. Hurry up!

 

[zwiebel]

Judge Masipa is still in her chambers, considering her decision.

Given the speediness of the hearing, it’s expected that she will come back with a ruling today, but as the lengthy main trial showed, things can sometimes take a lot longer than expected.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...istorius-defence-state-appeal-thrown-out-live

 

[zwiebel]

:waiting: :waiting: I'm sleeeeeepy, very very sleeeeeepy. Hurry up!

I'm hanging on because I suspect her decision will be made in about the time it takes to drink two cups of tea at a leisurely pace...

 

[L2L]

From The Guardian :

19:02


The key arguments


The defence case

Barry Roux, for Pistorius, insisted this was not an application for leave to appeal against the state’s leave to appeal.

It was his legal obligation, he said, to raise this argument now – ahead of the full appeal hearing in the supreme court – to ensure he would be able to make the points at that later date.

He asked Judge Masipa to agree that her earlier ruling – giving the state leave to appeal based on an agreement that a different court could reach a different verdict on the murder charge based on interpretation of the law – could have been wrong.

Roux argues that the culpable homicide verdict was reached on matters of fact, which cannot be the basis for an appeal.

The state’s case

Gerrie Nel, for the prosecution, said the defence application should be struck off the roll.

He said there was no provision in law for the court to even hear an application of this kind, let alone to grant it.

And, he said, there was no reason why the defence could not raise its arguments in the supreme court.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Zwiebel,you followed Dewani, didn't you? Did you see this:

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/575688065081040896