Do you think a Stungun was used?

[allysasaurus]

At first I didn't care for the discussion of the marking being cigarette burns, but it does add to discussing all possibilities. What it does challenge is that this was more thought-out and even collaborated. I've always imagined the staging to be more panicky desperation. Cigarette burns would look like it was someone other than the family members. Unfortunately, I believe a coroner would be able to recognize cigarette burns and would identify them as such.

The train track theory is a good one but it would require intent in a jabbing motion and not an accidental bump or fall against something. That leads to theories of intent in children's play getting out of hand.

I've often wondered about the distance of the marks. I had to convert it to inches in order to get an idea of how far apart the markings were. They're about 1 and 1/8 inches. I have no idea what they could be. My imagination has only been able to think of the width of ribbon and the backside of a molded medallion, but those prongs would never stick-out far enough to create those bruises. I really have no clue about what cause those marks. Still, this was a house full of toys.

You say the cigarette burns would look like an intruder.
I can see how the ramseys might think it would.... i would too. Which i did until i read in DOI how patsy mentioned smoking until they found the killer and then stopped after realizing she was only hurting herself.

 

[andreww]

Would the coroner not be able to tell the difference between a burn and an abrasion?

 

[icedtea4me]

Would the coroner not be able to tell the difference between a burn and an abrasion?

IMO, he would.

 

[allysasaurus]

IMO, he would.

How many times have you, being human and what not, made a mistake at work? Lol

 

[andreww]

Thats not something that I would think he would make a mistake about. They are two different things. It would be like looking at a glass of beer and mistakingly think its vodka.

 

[icedtea4me]

How many times have you, being human and what not, made a mistake at work? Lol

Did you see the injury up close and in the flesh like Meyers did?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[allysasaurus]

Did you see the injury up close and in the flesh like Meyers did?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Why would i have to have seen the wound in person for it to be plausible that he made a mistake?
Dont worry, i'll wait.

...furthermore why do you act like every poster here is out to get you or prove you wrong? I swear it seems like every post i see by you, you are actively trying to tell people they are wrong and you get upset when people dont agree with you. Just bc i post here doesnt mean im correct. Half the time im just spitballing ideas or "thinking outloud".
Get off my nuts with all that
"Thats what i thought."
Arrogant *advertiser censored*.

 

[andreww]

Why would i have to have seen the wound in person for it to be plausible that he made a mistake?
Dont worry, i'll wait.

...furthermore why do you act like every poster here is out to get you or prove you wrong? I swear it seems like every post i see by you, you are actively trying to tell people they are wrong and you get upset when people dont agree with you. Just bc i post here doesnt mean im correct. Half the time im just spitballing ideas or "thinking outloud".
Get off my nuts with all that
"Thats what i thought."
Arrogant *advertiser censored*.

Don't take offence. There's been a lot of tension around here and people are a bit on edge. Although there are some here that deserve that kind of treatment, you are not one of them.

 

[allysasaurus]

I find it funny that if jonbenet were here and was listening to all the petty bickering that goes on, being six years old....
She would probably tell us all that we need a time out and share her afternoon snack with us anyway.

 

[allysasaurus]

Thats not something that I would think he would make a mistake about. They are two different things. It would be like looking at a glass of beer and mistakingly think its vodka.

After re-reading this, i had a thought.
Using your example, looking at a glass of beer and mistakingly thinking it was vodka....
Is it plausible that he was looking at a glass of beer, knew it was beer, looked like beer.... but mistakingly WROTE DOWN vodka? Your example implies he never knew what vodka looked like in the first place.
Ive done it before as a waitress, just saying.
Guests asks for beer, i write down beer, but as i put the order in the register i press the vodka button?
What im getting at is, i know what beer looks like, i know my guest wants it, and i know how to get it but i accidently pressed vodka. That doesnt mean i thought beer was vodka..... its simply a mistake.

 

[andreww]

After re-reading this, i had a thought.
Using your example, looking at a glass of beer and mistakingly thinking it was vodka....
Is it plausible that he was looking at a glass of beer, knew it was beer, looked like beer.... but mistakingly WROTE DOWN vodka? Your example implies he never knew what vodka looked like in the first place.
Ive done it before as a waitress, just saying.
Guests asks for beer, i write down beer, but as i put the order in the register i press the vodka button?
What im getting at is, i know what beer looks like, i know my guest wants it, and i know how to get it but i accidently pressed vodka. That doesnt mean i thought beer was vodka..... its simply a mistake.

I agree those mistakes happen, but those things happen when you are doing something mundane and generally unimportant. A pilot doesn't accidentally shut off the engines or turn right instead of left. People with important jobs just don't tend to make mistakes like that. I make mistakes all the time, but when a task is important it always gets done correctly. And the fact that Linda Arndt was sitting by his side during this procedure would have definitely had him on his toes.

If this was an autopsy of a run of the mill "natural causes" death, I could see him making a mistake. But this was a big deal.

 

[allysasaurus]

I hate when my boss is over my shoulder. I probably mess up even more bc of anxiety lol.
This convo reminds me of the episode of big bang theory when sheldon has to find a meaningless mundane job in order to progress in string theory. Albert einstine had a breakthrough when he was working in a mail room i believe so he thought, who has a job so sucky??
Penny at the cheesecake factory. Lol
As a bus boy he drops a tub of dirty dishes on the floor and has an epifany lol

 

[andreww]

Yeh, but Arndt wasn't his boss. And that was a good episode

 

[allysasaurus]

Yeh, but Arndt wasn't his boss. And that was a good episode

I know that silly, just relating.
All Big Bang is "good" [emoji14]

 

[icedtea4me]

Why would i have to have seen the wound in person for it to be plausible that he made a mistake?
Dont worry, i'll wait.

...furthermore why do you act like every poster here is out to get you or prove you wrong? I swear it seems like every post i see by you, you are actively trying to tell people they are wrong and you get upset when people dont agree with you. Just bc i post here doesnt mean im correct. Half the time im just spitballing ideas or "thinking outloud".
Get off my nuts with all that
"Thats what i thought."
Arrogant *advertiser censored*.

With a cigarette burn you not only have the direct burn of the lit cigarette, but you also have, to a lesser degree, another burn that surrounds it due to the heat that was emitted.

 

[BBB167893]

I find it funny that if jonbenet were here and was listening to all the petty bickering that goes on, being six years old....
She would probably tell us all that we need a time out and share her afternoon snack with us anyway.

That warmed my heart, allyasaurus. Legit.

 

[DeeDee249]

After re-reading this, i had a thought.
Using your example, looking at a glass of beer and mistakingly thinking it was vodka....
Is it plausible that he was looking at a glass of beer, knew it was beer, looked like beer.... but mistakingly WROTE DOWN vodka? Your example implies he never knew what vodka looked like in the first place.
Ive done it before as a waitress, just saying.
Guests asks for beer, i write down beer, but as i put the order in the register i press the vodka button?
What im getting at is, i know what beer looks like, i know my guest wants it, and i know how to get it but i accidently pressed vodka. That doesnt mean i thought beer was vodka..... its simply a mistake.

Beer and vodka look and smell so dissimilar that I have a hard time thinking anyone would make a mistake like that. I realize you were just making an example. Any coroner can make a mistake, but remember it isn't the coroner who tests things - it is the lab. The coroner's "mistakes" IMO were those of omission- he neglected to take some very important (to a murder investigation especially) steps to determine the TOD. The core temp (via liver stab) and ocular potassium levels all are standard tests done as soon as the coroner first examines the deceased. Mayer spent less than 10 minutes with JB that first night. He knew he was examining a murdered CHILD- for him to have omitted these procedures (or worse, not even brought the equipment with him) is suspect and if I were the one to make the decision, I would have fired him.

 

[Mama2JML]

Would the coroner not be able to tell the difference between a burn and an abrasion?

An excerpt from Stratbucker's deposition in Wolf v. Ramseys:

"12 Let me just hand you Defendants'
13 Exhibit-9. You recognize that as a photograph
14 of Mr. Boggs taken after he had been exhumed.
15 Here is the --
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 Q. In fact, on Defendants' Exhibit 9,
18 you testified in the Boggs case under oath,
19 right?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. And it was your opinion that the two
22 marks on Mr. Boggs as shown on Defendants'
23 Exhibit 9 were caused by a stun gun, true?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And would you circle for me on
00064
1 Defendants' Exhibit 9 the two marks that you
2 testified under oath were stun gun marks?
3 A. Well --
4 Q. If you would just circle them for
5 me, please, sir.
6 A. This is not the photograph that I
7 used at trial, so I don't know --
8 Q. Was it this one? Was it this one?
9 A. I can't -- I -- I can't tell you.
10 It is likely that these are the two that I
11 identified.
12 Q. Circle the ones that are likely the
13 two that you identified under oath in that trial
14 as stun gun marks. Circle where I can see it,
15 please, sir.
16 Circle, circle. You circle it in
17 the other one.
18 A. And this one.
19 Q. All right. Were you aware that in
20 the Boggs autopsy report, Dr. Doberson had
21 initially described those two marks that you
22 have just circled as abrasions?
23 A. Yes."

You can read more here:

http://www.acandyrose.com/05302002Depo-RobertStratbuckerMd.htm

^^^Very interesting read, IMO.

 

[BBB167893]

An excerpt from Stratbucker's deposition in Wolf v. Ramseys:

"12 Let me just hand you Defendants'
13 Exhibit-9. You recognize that as a photograph
14 of Mr. Boggs taken after he had been exhumed.
15 Here is the --
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 Q. In fact, on Defendants' Exhibit 9,
18 you testified in the Boggs case under oath,
19 right?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. And it was your opinion that the two
22 marks on Mr. Boggs as shown on Defendants'
23 Exhibit 9 were caused by a stun gun, true?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And would you circle for me on
00064
1 Defendants' Exhibit 9 the two marks that you
2 testified under oath were stun gun marks?
3 A. Well --
4 Q. If you would just circle them for
5 me, please, sir.
6 A. This is not the photograph that I
7 used at trial, so I don't know --
8 Q. Was it this one? Was it this one?
9 A. I can't -- I -- I can't tell you.
10 It is likely that these are the two that I
11 identified.
12 Q. Circle the ones that are likely the
13 two that you identified under oath in that trial
14 as stun gun marks. Circle where I can see it,
15 please, sir.
16 Circle, circle. You circle it in
17 the other one.
18 A. And this one.
19 Q. All right. Were you aware that in
20 the Boggs autopsy report, Dr. Doberson had
21 initially described those two marks that you
22 have just circled as abrasions?
23 A. Yes."

You can read more here:

http://www.acandyrose.com/05302002Depo-RobertStratbuckerMd.htm

^^^Very interesting read, IMO.

I'll say! Doberson couldn't tell a stun gun when there WAS one, and could when there wasn't! But he said what Smit wanted, which was all that mattered.

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

 

[otg]

Okay... Who forgot to lock the exit door at the insane asylum? :facepalm: