Do You Think Caylee died before or after Casey was at Blockbuster with Tony?

[Whisperer]

With all the talk of the trunk...was it really a trunk? Wasn't her car a hatchback?Couldn't a child climb over the back seats into the main area?

 

[Just Jayla]

With all the talk of the trunk...was it really a trunk? Wasn't her car a hatchback?Couldn't a child climb over the back seats into the main area?

No, just a coupe. You can fold down the seats in the back, IIRC, to give way to the trunk.

 

[pipkins]

I believe she was killed on the 16th in an absolute fury at not getting a babysitter and wanting to teach her mother a lesson she would never forget.

IMO caylee was possibly sitting in her car seat whilst the duct tape was applied to 'shut her up' as it didn't encircle the head. Unfortunately I can almost imagine the scenario that Caylee was crying for attention whilst Casey was trying to phone and get a babysitter and she totally 'lost it'. She regarded Caylee as a plaything and not as a person and wanted 'out'

I also think that she probably felt free once she realised Caylee had died and now nothing would get in her way of being with Tony and enjoying parties and sex.

Caylee was put in the boot and I think the day she borrowed the shovel ( was this to try and break in the shed maybe?) was the day she took the blanket and sticker. I do not believe she tried to bury Caylee in the garden but do believe that the dogs picked up the scent of some sort of transfer smell (maybe the blanket, or sand scattered - which would explain the negative reaction the day after )

Its all speculation but Im starting to seriously believe that Casey is totally disassociated with her actions and that she was disassociated from this child from day one unless she brought her positive attention

All just my opinion which changes daily

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The last VERIFIED time that anyone but ICA, CA, or GA saw Caylee was on Sunday, June 15th, 2008. After that, we have Cindy saying she did NOT see Caylee in the morning, we have George saying that he saw them leave the house at about 12.:50 PM. He "remembers the time distintly because he was watching a cooking show he likes". George also gave a detailed description of the clothing Casey was wearing and the clothing Caylee was wearing.

IIRC George's description of Caylee's clothing does not match with the articles of clothing found with the skeleton. Also, was there not a discrepancy about Caylee's back pack? (He said it was a backpack with monkeys on it. There was a backpack of Caylee's in the stinky car when it was recovered, but it did not have monkeys on it.)

At the time George first gave the description of this publicly - which was on the Greta Van Sustren show with him sitting on the sofa and Cindy beside him - I thought the story was "off". At the time, I thought he was outright lying. At this point, I've mellowed and think that perhaps George did see the two leave the house - probably on many days - and that he has "glommed onto" that memory and associated it with "the last day he ever saw Caylee". Or, maybe he really did see them leave on June 16th. At this point, his word is the ONLY word on that. No one else ever saw the child.

I think the sighting by Mr. Thompson (?) at Kmart or Target has been discounted.

I do think Casey came back to the house after George left. I think she did that a lot. I think there is a possibility that Caylee was having a tantrum and Casey put tape over her mouth to "shut her up". I think that may be why the SA just admitted testimony that one piece of duct tape would have covered both the mouth and the nose of the child.

I am not sure about the chloroform - yet. Could Casey have chloroformed Caylee first, to "calm her down" and then applied the duct tape? Possibly.

The cadaver dogs were never brought into the Anthony home. I wish they had been.

SOMETHING was in that back yard for the cadaver dogs to hit on. That something was either the body or clothing from the body. Casey may have carried the dead child to the back yard, laid the body on the ground, placed the ladder onto the pool - with the idea of placing Caylee's body in the pool to make it look like a pool accident. But then she discovered she could not get the tape off of Caylee's face because it was stuck to hair?
So she then puts MORE tape onto her face?

Meanwhile, the body is found with no shoes. That tells me Caylee was killed at the house. Caylee was dressed and presumably had shoes on when George "saw them leave". So when they came back to the house after George left, Caylee's shoes were removed for some reason. Perhaps shoes were always taken off at the door in the Anthony home?due to the light colored carpeting in the house? (My grandchildren have learned to do this at my house!)

Yes, I think Caylee's body was placed into the trunk that afternoon. After having laid in the back yard for a while - long enough for some fluids to escape from her body onto the ground.
Often times after death when the body's muscles relax there is a release of the contents of the bowels and the bladder. How long it would take for "decomp" chemicals to be present in a dead body I do not know. Could it be within hours of death if the body is out in the hot Florida sun?

Yes, I think Caylee's body was in the trunk of Casey's car on the evening of June 16th when she went to Blockbusters with Tony. Plus all the next day while she spent the day in bed with Tony. I think she may not have bagged Caylee until the afternoon of the 17th or 18th when she had her car backed into the garage. Did she realize the body had leaked decomp fluid onto the carpeting of the trunk at that time? Maybe not.

But she realized it by the time she was texting Amy about dead squirrels. I do not think Caylee's body was in the trunk when she took the gas cans out to give them back to George on the 24th. But I think the smell was beginning at that point.


Sorry for the long post. But I don't post very often!

 

[LinasK]

The last VERIFIED time that anyone but ICA, CA, or GA saw Caylee was on Sunday, June 15th, 2008. After that, we have Cindy saying she did NOT see Caylee in the morning, we have George saying that he saw them leave the house at about 12.:50 PM. He "remembers the time distintly because he was watching a cooking show he likes". George also gave a detailed description of the clothing Casey was wearing and the clothing Caylee was wearing.

IIRC George's description of Caylee's clothing does not match with the articles of clothing found with the skeleton. Also, was there not a discrepancy about Caylee's back pack? (He said it was a backpack with monkeys on it. There was a backpack of Caylee's in the stinky car when it was recovered, but it did not have monkeys on it.)

At the time George first gave the description of this publicly - which was on the Greta Van Sustren show with him sitting on the sofa and Cindy beside him - I thought the story was "off". At the time, I thought he was outright lying. At this point, I've mellowed and think that perhaps George did see the two leave the house - probably on many days - and that he has "glommed onto" that memory and associated it with "the last day he ever saw Caylee". Or, maybe he really did see them leave on June 16th. At this point, his word is the ONLY word on that. No one else ever saw the child.

I think the sighting by Mr. Thompson (?) at Kmart or Target has been discounted.

I do think Casey came back to the house after George left. I think she did that a lot. I think there is a possibility that Caylee was having a tantrum and Casey put tape over her mouth to "shut her up". I think that may be why the SA just admitted testimony that one piece of duct tape would have covered both the mouth and the nose of the child.

I am not sure about the chloroform - yet. Could Casey have chloroformed Caylee first, to "calm her down" and then applied the duct tape? Possibly.

The cadaver dogs were never brought into the Anthony home. I wish they had been.

SOMETHING was in that back yard for the cadaver dogs to hit on. That something was either the body or clothing from the body. Casey may have carried the dead child to the back yard, laid the body on the ground, placed the ladder onto the pool - with the idea of placing Caylee's body in the pool to make it look like a pool accident. But then she discovered she could not get the tape off of Caylee's face because it was stuck to hair?
So she then puts MORE tape onto her face?

Meanwhile, the body is found with no shoes. That tells me Caylee was killed at the house. Caylee was dressed and presumably had shoes on when George "saw them leave". So when they came back to the house after George left, Caylee's shoes were removed for some reason. Perhaps shoes were always taken off at the door in the Anthony home?due to the light colored carpeting in the house? (My grandchildren have learned to do this at my house!)

Yes, I think Caylee's body was placed into the trunk that afternoon. After having laid in the back yard for a while - long enough for some fluids to escape from her body onto the ground.
Often times after death when the body's muscles relax there is a release of the contents of the bowels and the bladder. How long it would take for "decomp" chemicals to be present in a dead body I do not know. Could it be within hours of death if the body is out in the hot Florida sun?

Yes, I think Caylee's body was in the trunk of Casey's car on the evening of June 16th when she went to Blockbusters with Tony. Plus all the next day while she spent the day in bed with Tony. I think she may not have bagged Caylee until the afternoon of the 17th or 18th when she had her car backed into the garage. Did she realize the body had leaked decomp fluid onto the carpeting of the trunk at that time? Maybe not.

But she realized it by the time she was texting Amy about dead squirrels. I do not think Caylee's body was in the trunk when she took the gas cans out to give them back to George on the 24th. But I think the smell was beginning at that point.


Sorry for the long post. But I don't post very often!

Don't worry, it's a good summation!:goodpost:

 

[TorisMom003]

Do we know if they took Casey's car or Tony's to BlockBuster? TIA

I'm not sure whos car they took to Blockbuster. For some reason I want to say they took Casey's but again, I am not sure.

 

[azwriter]

I wonder who's car they went to Blockbuster in? Was it her car? I can believe it. She pushes the limit, George said.

I read somewhere they were in Tony's car. Casey left her's (and the body) in his apartment parking lot. Ohhh, that' gives me the creeps.

 

[Just Jayla]

I'm not sure whos car they took to Blockbuster. For some reason I want to say they took Casey's but again, I am not sure.

IIRC, the state estimated that Caylee was 1. in the trunk for 2.6 days and 2. likely placed in the swamp between the 19th and the 26th.
Especially after the experts allowed for it to be drawn out all the way to the 26th, I began to wonder about the sandbox as well. Maybe just for the night of the 16th.
There was an empty bag of play sand collected at the remains site. Of this I am certain, it is on the chain of custody paperwork. Just sayin', maybe KC had to remove some of the sand due to decomp fluid, and replaced it with fresh sand. Only problem with my theory is that there was apprently no sand in the trunk, in Caylee's shorts or hair mat, and no bag of the disposed-of sand. Of course, she could have thrown that out with Caylee's original clothes, wherever that may be....because remember as KC pointed out to LP, they haven't even found her clothes yet.

 

[azwriter]

I believe Caylee died on June 16.
I believe the *flurry* of calls was to find a babysitter so Casey could go to TonE's.
I believe no luck finding a babysitter=Caylee's murder.
I believe Casey had been planning to murder Caylee as early as March 2008 and this day wound up being the day.
I believe the fight the night before played a part in Caylees death.
I believe Caylee was in the trunk while Casey was in Blockbuster with TonE.
I believe when Casey's car was backed into the garage on the 18th-- It was to put Caylee in another garbage bag.

moo

I believe you are right on with your post.
jmo

 

[SevenSeas]

Does anybody have a synopsis/link of the "One Tree Hill' episode where ICA might've done a copy-cat? Nanny stole the child?

 

[seagull65]

I always wondered if the flurry of calls was either Casey trying to find out who had Caylee, i.e. couldn't find Caylee and thought, well, does my mom or dad have her? Especially if there had been a disagreement the night before....or if it was Casey calling in a panic because there had been an accident. Maybe Casey had found Caylee drowned in the pool and that someone had left a door unlocked or pool ladder up and was calling in hysterics and rage combined. I always had trouble believing there was any motive for murder, I think Casey would leave Caylee with a friend somewhere or with her mom at the office if it came to that, as she'd done before, if she didn't just take Caylee along with her wherever she was going. I definitely think she would have taken Caylee along to Tony's if needed, witnesses stated how Casey and Tony would be in Tony's room with Caylee out in the living room, so if they were really that desperate to get in bed I just think they would have put Caylee in front of the TV in the living room most likely.
The only exception I could see to the above would be if Casey had had the onset of a seriously mental ill episode or had just recently started using serious drugs and was seriously impaired, then I might be able to consider different behavior. Or what if she wasn't the one who harmed Caylee but she didn't want to rat out the person who did or admit she'd let a situation happen where someone had harmed Caylee, and was covering for them?
The thing about the trunk is, Tony L states there was no smell at the car even when she opened the trunk on June 23, and George says no smell (even though again she opened the trunk) on June 24, and tow driver said no smell on the 30th (I seriously don't picture a cold preventing a person from being able to smell human decomp if it was there)....The smell is first noticed a few days after the tow at the tow yard and much stronger by the time George picks up the car.
Of course Casey does mention a smell before the car was left at Amscot....but how to explain Tony and George not smelling it. They both said they were near the car, especially Tony. If decomp started in the trunk on the 16th, then Tony could not have missed the smell on the 23rd (or the whole time her car was parked at his apartment up til the 27th. Tony and Cameron said it was parked at their apartment the whole time they were there.)
So, anyway, I've never been able to make my mind up on this question either lol. How is the James Thompson witness statement discounted, did her pings show she wasn't really there at that time? I did always wonder about the bag of stuffed animals Keith W found in the woods.
Re: Blockbuster, I never did understand why LE didn't take in the clothes Tony and Casey were wearing in the Blockbuster video since they allege that was the day Caylee died. Not to mention doing forensics/fiber studies etc at the apartment.
Just to add, if Casey had ever been thinking of murdering someone, why Caylee? I think Casey just looked up chloroform due to seeing the chloroform joke on Ricardo's myspace and then surfed those other related subjects. She could even have thought she'd been chloroformed for all I know. Maybe she was, it would explain a few things......

 

[seagull65]

yes, I always had some doubts about George's story of seeing them leave on the 16th also. Too much detail. There wouldn't have been any reason for him to make any mental note of any of that because at the time he wouldn't have known this was different from any other day, and supposedly he didn't know anything was wrong until July 15, like he would suddenly be able to recall with photographic memory what Caylee and Casey had had on a month before in every detail? I found that unbelievable. But I agree, over time I also thought, well maybe he'd just created this memory in his mind based on memories of other days

 

[seagull65]

I always thought Casey looked strange in the Blockbuster video, just the way she was walking behind Tony, dressed in atypical clothes, maybe clothes borrowed from him? Looking down with that white headscarf on. Just unusual. Didn't look lovey dovey, he's talking on the phone just walking on his own in front of her, she's trailing behind. Finally he kind of puts his arm around her neck etc. I don't know, just always struck me as odd. Was she thinking,should I call my Mom and tell her the truth about the drowning? Was she already in la-la land? Was she on drugs? It reminds me a bit of the video of the young Peruvian woman with JVDS, the way she was walking behind him with her lowered head posture. I can't put my finger on it.

 

[MILLIO2001]

While they were @ Blockbuster? .........
JMO

 

[erinleigh]

I think she was killed the afternoon of June 16th. KC was uploading a picture of herself at 11:47 that morning. So she was around the house and I do not believe Caylee was dead at that point. Where would she have put her without being questioned by George.

I realize there are some of you who believe George was in on it or is lying about seeing Caylee on June 16th. I just don't happen to believe that.

I wonder why the state did not introduce the time of 11:47 for uploading photos. If Caylee "drowned" in the early morning per opening statements...why didn't the state mention the fact that Casey was happily clicking away on a computer after the 'early morning incident"

Where was GA during that time? and Caylee? Why didnt the state ask GA that on the stand. Was Casey on the family computer or on Cindy's laptop perhaps in the bedroom? If GA was Disposing of the body as we are to believe, wouldn't Casey have known how GA got the body out of the house. The 11:47 upload does not fit in with the defense scenerio.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

While they were @ Blockbuster? .........
JMO

ITA! I think ICA chloroformed her in the trunk so she could spend the evening with Tony and when she went to get her out she had died..(Poor baby)..