Documentary Claims Jesus Was Married
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Nova
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accordn2me said:Nova, I'm impressed with how much everyone on this thread knows...thinks they know, even. LOL! I have learned so much. Enlightening is a good word.
Now that I'm racking my brain about the DNA, I'm thinking that maybe they found a hair that clued them in on the African-American part. I know they can tell the difference between Asian, Caucasian, and Negroid hair. I don't know how many categories of hair they have. Given those 3, I would guess Jesus would fall into the caucasian category.
accord, I have read that about hair types, and that used to be even more important before DNA testing. I don't know if those are "precise" categories, however, or just general groupings.
As for Jesus, Judea of the time was a pretty cosmopolitan place. I don't think we know for sure what race he was (other than "Jewish," of course, which can be considered a "race" in a somewhat different sense).
(ETA: accord, it's been a few years, but I don't think the DNA study authors were saying differing characteristics shouldn't be used for forensic purposes. They were talking about "race" as a broad, biological category (Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid) and saying those terms were statistically meaningless.)
Cypros
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Nova said:
Semitic is the most likely answer.
And, Nova, I wanted to comment on your discussion above regarding DNA studies and race. You are absolutely right that modern DNA analysis supports the theory that the concept of race is a CULTURAL construciton and is not based in any way on biology. Human beings cannot be divided up into nice neat categories (races) based on their biology -- and distinct races of humans never existed. We all descend from the same ancestors. We are one big family. And the differences in our physical characteristics come from adaptations of different populations to different conditions as they spread across the world, as well as mutations that introduced neutral or beneficial traits into the genetic pool of a population. But there is too much commonality and too much overlap in every possible category (skin pigmentation, blood type, eye color/shape, hair color/texture, lactose tolerance/intolerance, etc etc) so that it is impossible to divide humans up into separate biological races.
Nova
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Cypros said:
Half-semitic, don't you mean? We don't know His Father's race.
Cypros, do you have an answer to accord's questions above about the use of racial typing in forensics? I don't think I responded too clearly. I understand (and agree with) the argument against the broad, racial categories we were taught when I went to school. (As with sexual orientation and so much else, it's the social constructions that govern our thinking and lives, not the biology.)
But without those, how would we communicate concepts such as "people most at risk for cycle-cell anemia"?
====
Wait, I think I can answer my own question. We would still have "people of African descent" and "people of European descent", etc., even after we stopped classifying them as different "races."
LovelyPigeon
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Nova said:
I have to admit that I find your points more reasonable and persuasive than my source (who is a dear friend). I took his statement at face value, and without question, months ago when he commented about widespread literacy among 1st century Jews.
I will now have to argue back with your points. Thanks for taking the time to answer so completely.
LovelyPigeon
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Nah, I won't be too hard on him. I'm curious to hear his response to your points. I think at least some of his historical take is based on Christian apology for scripture.
Nova
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LovelyPigeon said:
While, you're at it, you might ask whether girls were taught as enthusiastically as boys in the synagogue? I'm not an expert in the period (and per NT accounts, Jesus attracted some obviously educated women), but I suspect not.
LovelyPigeon
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Cypros said:
I don't know much about the field of race concept and categories beyond what I was taught in high school and college, and DNA wasn't included 'way back then'. I think the research and philosphy is fascinating, although I need layman's explanations in order to follow along.
I find this article useful and informative: Race Without Color- Basing race on body chemistry makes no more sense than basing race on appearance--but at least you get to move the membership around. http://discovermagazine.com/1994/nov/racewithoutcolor444 but it is a 1994 date, so the info may have been since updated to conflict with this author's explanation.
This 2003 article might? incorporate the theory/study mentioned in other posters' previous posts about genetic global mapping: Genes generate a map, Study tracks human evolution, migration - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/06/09/MN52597.DTL&type=science
As best I can tell the Bible doesn't describe distinctive human races, but only people groups in regions with different languages (per the Tower of Babel incident in Genesis 11:1-9). Except maybe the mention of the Nephilim angels (also in Genesis and in Enoch) who mated with women which resulted in the birth of giants.
Those giants should have had some interesting DNA, too, huh?!
LovelyPigeon
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Oh, and I found an "out of Africa" article in Scientific American:
January 29, 2001
The Modern Human Origins Morass
Recent studies support a controversial theory of human evolution
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa004&articleID=0009EA76-8C30-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21
(I think I'm going somewhat far afield of the subject of this thread)
January 29, 2001
The Modern Human Origins Morass
Recent studies support a controversial theory of human evolution
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa004&articleID=0009EA76-8C30-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21
(I think I'm going somewhat far afield of the subject of this thread)
accordn2me
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http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html
Semitic Genetics.
With a new technique based on the male or Y chromosome, biologists have traced the diaspora of Jewish populations from the dispersals that began in 586 B.C. to the modern communities of Europe and the Middle East.
The analysis provides genetic witness that these communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries.
Jews, Palestinians, and Syrians share a genetic link.
Another finding, paradoxical but unsurprising, is that by the yardstick of the Y chromosome, the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago.
Semitic Genetics.
With a new technique based on the male or Y chromosome, biologists have traced the diaspora of Jewish populations from the dispersals that began in 586 B.C. to the modern communities of Europe and the Middle East.
The analysis provides genetic witness that these communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries.
Jews, Palestinians, and Syrians share a genetic link.
Another finding, paradoxical but unsurprising, is that by the yardstick of the Y chromosome, the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago.
I'd say its the same game- I have no idea why they call it Chinese Whispers, sorry to be racist!Nova said:Oh, you racist Ozzies!
If that's the game I think it is, we call it "Telephone" in the States. Or at least that's what they called it in Florida, where I grew up.
Ok, I googled Telephone and Chinese Whispers are one and the same.
The name "Chinese whispers" reflects the former stereotype in Europe of the Chinese language as being incomprehensible.[2]. It is little-used in the United States and may be considered offensive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_(game)
LovelyPigeon
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Nova said:
Actually that article puts forth the argument that Neanderthals appear to be a different species than us'ns!
I might better should run, anyway!
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