Does Pam Paugh Know Anything About JB's Murder?

[UKGuy]

In the case of JBR, and I'm not being trite, just honest, she may not have felt pretty because her roots were showing, and pretty girls don't have dark roots....especially little Miss Christmas.

vlpate,
Roots, a six year old girl, pretty, am I just an old guy with no modern bearings? Its the cover up, the susan stine story: we have no issues here thats at question and the coincidence that within days JonBenet was dead.

 

[Nom de plume]

vlpate,
Roots, a six year old girl, pretty, am I just an old guy with no modern bearings? Its the cover up, the susan stine story: we have no issues here thats at question and the coincidence that within days JonBenet was dead.

ITA I don't think it has anything at all to do with her having dark roots. Plus I doubt PR would let her hair go very long without touching it up. It does seem like something she would say if she felt "dirty" though.

I firmly believe that JB's comment, coupled with the 911 call, have a direct connection to her murder just 3 days later.

 

[UKGuy]

ITA I don't think it has anything at all to do with her having dark roots. Plus I doubt PR would let her hair go very long without touching it up. It does seem like something she would say if she felt "dirty" though.

I firmly believe that JB's comment, coupled with the 911 call, have a direct connection to her murder just 3 days later.

Nom de plume,
Yes this aspect is similar to the dolls, i.e. we know it matters but just how much?

If there is a connection it has to be with disclosure, since killing JonBenet means there is no witness.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

6-year old girls do not pay attention to their "roots". Her comment had nothing to do with her hair. She certainly wouldn't equate that with whether she felt "pretty" That is looking at her comment with an adult sensibility, not a child's. We will never know what prompted her to make that comment. Did someone tease her about wearing pullups? Did someone touch her in a way that upset her? Whatever it was- it wasn't her hair!

 

[aussiegirl]

I think she most likely said she didn't feel pretty because of the clothes issues. My 6 y/o girl has been known to say that when forced to wear things she doesn't like, for example her school uniform! Or once she went to a rock climbing theme birthday party (age 5) and I insisted she wear leggings (You can't climb in a party dress). The tantrum about that "I don't look beautiful, I'm wearing boy clothes, I want to wear a party dress" etc. Little girls OFTEN say things like that because unfortunately we have a society where people show value of females (from birth us) via their looks.

"Don't you look pretty"
"What a pretty dress"
"What pretty hair"

So often well meaning and kind hearted comments praise the looks of a child.

I try VERY hard (as a teacher and a parent) to praise the action "Fantastic writing, great job catching the ball" etc. rather than the gender "Good boy, good girl".

I also try to praise children outside of the classroom for more than just their looks.

HOWEVER, as a society we condition girls from babyhood to want to be praised for their looks.

So I think, JonBenet saying she didn't feel pretty.... is unlikely to be of any great importance. It's not an uncommon thing for a little girl to say. As a teacher, it's not an uncommon thing for me to hear.

 

[UKGuy]

I think she most likely said she didn't feel pretty because of the clothes issues. My 6 y/o girl has been known to say that when forced to wear things she doesn't like, for example her school uniform! Or once she went to a rock climbing theme birthday party (age 5) and I insisted she wear leggings (You can't climb in a party dress). The tantrum about that "I don't look beautiful, I'm wearing boy clothes, I want to wear a party dress" etc. Little girls OFTEN say things like that because unfortunately we have a society where people show value of females (from birth us) via their looks.

"Don't you look pretty"
"What a pretty dress"
"What pretty hair"

So often well meaning and kind hearted comments praise the looks of a child.

I try VERY hard (as a teacher and a parent) to praise the action "Fantastic writing, great job catching the ball" etc. rather than the gender "Good boy, good girl".

I also try to praise children outside of the classroom for more than just their looks.

HOWEVER, as a society we condition girls from babyhood to want to be praised for their looks.

So I think, JonBenet saying she didn't feel pretty.... is unlikely to be of any great importance. It's not an uncommon thing for a little girl to say. As a teacher, it's not an uncommon thing for me to hear.

aussiegirl,
You might be correct. I think JonBenet was wearing a party dress which Patsy had selected?

All the events might be coincidence, i.e. the 911 call, Patsy's friends intending to discuss with Patsy about JonBenet's behaviour, and on the 24th Dec 1996, JonBenet said Santa was going pay her a special visit, but after Christmas.

The following day JonBenet was lying dead down in the wine-cellar!

 

[DeeDee249]

There are photos of JB at that party on the 23rd. She is wearing a dark velvet dress with lace trim. She looks very pretty and happy. Can't tell exactly what color the dress is, but didn't Patsy mention purple? It could be black or purple in the photo.

 

[UKGuy]

There are photos of JB at that party on the 23rd. She is wearing a dark velvet dress with lace trim. She looks very pretty and happy. Can't tell exactly what color the dress is, but didn't Patsy mention purple? It could be black or purple in the photo.

DeeDee249,
Yes black or purple, it looked black to me. Yet one day later Patsy is saying she and JonBenet were arguing about what clothes to wear to the White's. With JonBenet appearing not to want to be a clone of Patsy?



.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
Yes black or purple, it looked black to me. Yet one day later Patsy is saying she and JonBenet were arguing about what clothes to wear to the White's. With JonBenet appearing not to want to be a clone of Patsy?



.

Patsy's planned outfit for the White's party was black velvet pants, red sweater and red/black/gray patterned acrylic fleece jacket. Patsy had recently bought JB an outfit at Gap Kids consisting of black velvet pants, black velvet vest and white shirt with a silver sequin star. JB wanted to wear this new outfit to the White's in its entirety- with the shirt that was meant to go with the outfit. Having had a little girl myself, I can tell you that girls love sparkly things. But Patsy wanted JB to wear the red turtleneck instead of the white sequin shirt so they would "match" each other. I can bet that JB wanted to wear the sparkly sequin shirt- and it was more about that then it was about her not wanting to match her mother.

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy's planned outfit for the White's party was black velvet pants, red sweater and red/black/gray patterned acrylic fleece jacket. Patsy had recently bought JB an outfit at Gap Kids consisting of black velvet pants, black velvet vest and white shirt with a silver sequin star. JB wanted to wear this new outfit to the White's in its entirety- with the shirt that was meant to go with the outfit. Having had a little girl myself, I can tell you that girls love sparkly things. But Patsy wanted JB to wear the red turtleneck instead of the white sequin shirt so they would "match" each other. I can bet that JB wanted to wear the sparkly sequin shirt- and it was more about that then it was about her not wanting to match her mother.

DeeDee249,
Sure it could be that way, but maybe JonBenet's innate sense of individuality was shining through and she wanted to wear the gap top to differentiate herself from her mother. Nearly every other aspect of her personality was being driven by other peoples ideas of how she might develop, e.g. Shirley Temple and those vhs tapes etc. I'm surprised she never had any of those fancy Shirley Temple dolls that come complete with an outfit change etc, including a brand label.

So its all innocent stuff, just JonBenet wanting to sparkle, so why is Patsy citing an argument or disagreement, why was the Red Turtleneck found wet, balled up in the bathroom, what happened?

I reckon JonBenet might have been redressed from the Red Turtleneck to say the Pink Nightgown, and after JR's intervention the size-12's and white longjohns. Why would Patsy deny all knowledge of the size-12's, other than placing the packet in her underwear drawer, whats all that about, if its PDI then Patsy will have an answer for that one?

I reckon Patsy is making stuff up to explain away forensic evidence, she has to, just as she invented placing the size-12's into JonBenet's underear drawer.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
Sure it could be that way, but maybe JonBenet's innate sense of individuality was shining through and she wanted to wear the gap top to differentiate herself from her mother. Nearly every other aspect of her personality was being driven by other peoples ideas of how she might develop, e.g. Shirley Temple and those vhs tapes etc. I'm surprised she never had any of those fancy Shirley Temple dolls that come complete with an outfit change etc, including a brand label.

So its all innocent stuff, just JonBenet wanting to sparkle, so why is Patsy citing an argument or disagreement, why was the Red Turtleneck found wet, balled up in the bathroom, what happened?

I reckon JonBenet might have been redressed from the Red Turtleneck to say the Pink Nightgown, and after JR's intervention the size-12's and white longjohns. Why would Patsy deny all knowledge of the size-12's, other than placing the packet in her underwear drawer, whats all that about, if its PDI then Patsy will have an answer for that one?

I reckon Patsy is making stuff up to explain away forensic evidence, she has to, just as she invented placing the size-12's into JonBenet's underear drawer.

.

I don't think Patsy denied all knowledge of the size 12s at all. She freely admitted to LE that she did, in fact, purchase the set in size 12 for her niece. She claimed she did not recall whether she also bought a set for JB in what was presumably her own size. Patsy told LE she put the size 12s in JB's panty drawer. This was proved to be a lie, not just because the rest of the panty set was found in JB's drawers, but because the Rs sent the rest of the panty set (the remaining 6 pairs) still in the package, to LE 5 years later. So it was obvious it had never been in her drawer.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think Patsy denied all knowledge of the size 12s at all. She freely admitted to LE that she did, in fact, purchase the set in size 12 for her niece. She claimed she did not recall whether she also bought a set for JB in what was presumably her own size. Patsy told LE she put the size 12s in JB's panty drawer. This was proved to be a lie, not just because the rest of the panty set was found in JB's drawers, but because the Rs sent the rest of the panty set (the remaining 6 pairs) still in the package, to LE 5 years later. So it was obvious it had never been in her drawer.

DeeDee249,
What Patsy denied knowledge of was that JonBenet was found dead wearing size-12 underwear, she claimed she only found this out from the newspapers?

The rest is RST history, nobody is concerned whether she purchased a size-6 set for JonBenet since it was size-12's that are the object of inquiry.

.

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

IMO Patsy choose the size 12's For JBR as a last gift to her as she knew how much JBR liked them and wanted them. Very sad!

 

[andreww]

IMO Patsy choose the size 12's For JBR as a last gift to her as she knew how much JBR liked them and wanted them. Very sad!

Or she chose them simply because they were brand new. If she had just spent time wiping down her dead daughter, removing all evidence of hers and JRs involvement, maybe she didn't feel comfortable using old panties that may have been used in previous assaults. At that point in the night I just don't see PR having a "let's do something nice for JBR" moment. She was in survival mode at that point and everything she did was related to her survival.


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[pukasonqo2]

IMO Patsy choose the size 12's For JBR as a last gift to her as she knew how much JBR liked them and wanted them. Very sad!

why not get her another set in the correct size when she bought the size 12s?
my take is that whomever redress JB grab the newest pair to make sure there was no incriminating DNA as they came brand new and unworn from a packet.

having a DD myself i cannot see a child wearing undies that are way too big, especially a child with toileting problems like JB, she would be soaked and soiled everytime she had an accident

 

[DeeDee249]

why not get her another set in the correct size when she bought the size 12s?
my take is that whomever redress JB grab the newest pair to make sure there was no incriminating DNA as they came brand new and unworn from a packet.

having a DD myself i cannot see a child wearing undies that are way too big, especially a child with toileting problems like JB, she would be soaked and soiled everytime she had an accident

JB's own panties were upstairs in her drawer. The body was being redressed in the basement. The size 12 panties were in the basement too. They were handy. It wasn't so much that they were new as much as it was they they were THERE.

 

[andreww]

JB's own panties were upstairs in her drawer. The body was being redressed in the basement. The size 12 panties were in the basement too. They were handy. It wasn't so much that they were new as much as it was they they were THERE.

But who would have known they were there? JR? BR? An intruder? Probably not. So why wouldn't PR just go upstairs and get the proper size?

And has it been confirmed that the size 12s came from the basement?


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[UKGuy]

But who would have known they were there? JR? BR? An intruder? Probably not. So why wouldn't PR just go upstairs and get the proper size?

And has it been confirmed that the size 12s came from the basement?


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andreww,

But who would have known they were there? JR?

In his book Kolar stated that on Christmas Day BR was rummaging about down in the basement, opening what we know as the partially opened gifts, so if the size-12's were down there he might have found them?

And has it been confirmed that the size 12s came from the basement?

No, Patsy stated she place the package of unopened size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, yet BPD found none in her drawer when searching!

So why wouldn't PR just go upstairs and get the proper size?

Exactly. If you pair this behaviour with Patsy's answer to the question: did you buy a set of Bloomingdales size-6 for JonBenet at the same time you purchased the size-12's? She was non-commital. You might decide there was no Wednesday size-6 Bloomingdales in JonBenet's underwear drawer because Patsy had removed them from JonBenet on the night she died?

If the case is PDI and Patsy redressed JonBenet in those ridiculous size-12's why did she tell investigators she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, when she knew they were not there, precisely because she removed them along with the stained size-6 underwear?

If Patsy had redressed JonBenet she would have a better explanation for the missing size-12's!

.

 

[elannia]

Pam Paugh said there were two people... she didnt know which one actually killed JB. Patsy said "they" killed my baby(to me this means 2). Ok this may be farfetched but let me explain... as someone had posted before JAR had a plan along with his two friends from GA to kidnap JB. Maybe JA stayed behind(while his two friends went to Boulder) to do the kidnapping. It has been stated by patsy that brad millard has been in the house before and surely he knew his way around. So if they had planned this and something went wrong, they actually killed her. But I dont know where the other evidence comes into play(JB seen JA at the ramsey residence Christmas, the pineapple, the tea glass, etc. Was he(they) hiding in the house while they were at the Whites. I know JAR had his alibi checked and was cleared but maybe he wasnt even there. Maybe his two friends went. But I dont see the Ramseys covering up for the "friends" but maybe IF JA was there would they cover for him? And the RN was patsy "forced" to write that note by someone? And also someone had mentioned BR and his friend DS. Did DS come back to the Ramsey home after they dropped off gifts at the Stimes? Maybe this is why she became Patsys "pit bull" after the murder. I know it sounds crazy so no mean comments(lol) but if a Ramseys son was involved they would have covered it up. So which one was it? My best guess.... BR. Also JR wouldnt even hardly let her talk on national tv about the case. Was he afraid she would give away something? Why the lawyers for his side of the family and not hers. Like I said was she forced to write the RN. I think(dont call me crazy lol) that maybe Patsy was dragged into this mess. (By someone on Johns side of the family, or BR) ST had a very good theory but I tfuly believe Patsy really loved her more than anything and I dont see patsy as the killer. Cover up.. sure. maybe she seen the the abuser that night(maybe JAR friends and maybe took a swing at him and missed hitting JB...

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

Or she chose them simply because they were brand new. If she had just spent time wiping down her dead daughter, removing all evidence of hers and JRs involvement, maybe she didn't feel comfortable using old panties that may have been used in previous assaults. At that point in the night I just don't see PR having a "let's do something nice for JBR" moment. She was in survival mode at that point and everything she did was related to her survival.


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She/they wrapped JonBenet in her white blanket. Wait! Why was it clean as it usually got washed in the morning when PR stripped her bed.