Dogs

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Correct. And no need to specify here.... We have a dozen at any given time.
I'm just not clear on what the reporting is about the type of dogs used and when.

Absolutely different dogs are used for different purposes, a Narc dog won't find a bomb, or a person (unless it's been cross trained). Dogs are probably the single most useful tool in SAR work. There are some dogs that are cross trained for multiple disciplines, but most are specialist as they do a particular job best. The first dogs to be called out are the trailing and area search dogs, cadaver dogs will be called in when the search turns to or is believed to be a recovery mission.

Did that help?

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Are you referring to them ending up in Pala specifically?

Trailing dogs (which these were ) are given a "scent article" (an uncontaminated item of the missing person, piece of clothing, hairbrush, etc) and from that they follow that person's trail of sloughed off skin cells. They will ignore all other people and follow it as long as they can. (next is theoretical only for explaining) In Amber's case if they started from the school they would have headed out of that area, onto the freeway. Because they can't shut the freeway down they would have done exit hopping, getting off at each offramp and letting the dog try and find the scent again. In theory the dogs would have told the handlers that Pala was the place to get off and then once on more rural roads they would have followed the trail again all the way in to the library)

Yes that is what I am referring to.

 

[sarx]

The dogs that were paid and brought in August were trailing dogs.
The dogs that tried again in November (I believe by LE) were also trailing dogs. To my knowledge those were the only two times dogs were used.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

The dogs that were paid and brought in August were trailing dogs.
The dogs that tried again in November (I believe by LE) were also trailing dogs. To my knowledge those were the only two times dogs were used.

Okay. Going to look up this clarification. Thanks for the info.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

The dogs that were paid and brought in August were trailing dogs.
The dogs that tried again in November (I believe by LE) were also trailing dogs. To my knowledge those were the only two times dogs were used.

Do we have a source for the 'paid' aspect, besides the 'using donations' from the one article? Sometimes donations are donations-in-kind.

 

[Tink56]

The dogs that were paid and brought in August were trailing dogs.
The dogs that tried again in November (I believe by LE) were also trailing dogs. To my knowledge those were the only two times dogs were used.

The use of dogs has always interested me, so thanks for all the good information.

This is a bit off topic in this thread, but perhaps related. I saw dogs being used when they were looking for Chelsea, but obviously they weren't effective immediately.

Is that due to the type of dog, since she was no longer living or ??? Also, someone mentioned that a dog or dogs were seen jumping into the water in the area where her body was found. The use of cadaver dogs was never mentioned, however. BUT, I was wondering what the alert would be for a cadaver dog over water.

Again, thanks for being so patient and explaining everything so well.

 

[sarx]

Tink, it was the use of cadaver dogs that got the teams in and found Chelsea. Don't want to derail this thread, but I'd be happy to explain whatever you want. Knowledge is power and I love being able to help people understand just what dogs are capable of, as well as their limitations.

 

[sarx]

A big question for me also is with all of the dogs in California and on the west coast for that matter, why did dogs have to be flown in from the east coast? I have my own opinions, but am open to hear thoughts.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Tink, it was the use of cadaver dogs that got the teams in and found Chelsea. Don't want to derail this thread, but I'd be happy to explain whatever you want. Knowledge is power and I love being able to help people understand just what dogs are capable of, as well as their limitations.

Also don't want to derail this thread. But I too have knowledge of what dogs are capable of, as well as limited by. And I know Oriah will be helpful in answering any questions regarding the working dog aspect. We're all limited by something, I suppose. My understanding was that it was an HRD dog. Looking for the link right now.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

A big question for me also is with all of the dogs in California and on the west coast for that matter, why did dogs have to be flown in from the east coast? I have my own opinions, but am open to hear thoughts.

My thought is that there are not many certified HRD dogs in the US.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

The use of dogs has always interested me, so thanks for all the good information.

This is a bit off topic in this thread, but perhaps related. I saw dogs being used when they were looking for Chelsea, but obviously they weren't effective immediately.

Is that due to the type of dog, since she was no longer living or ??? Also, someone mentioned that a dog or dogs were seen jumping into the water in the area where her body was found. The use of cadaver dogs was never mentioned, however. BUT, I was wondering what the alert would be for a cadaver dog over water.

Again, thanks for being so patient and explaining everything so well.

And just to add to the clarification- there are HRD dogs further certified in a variety of different environments- to simplify; such as water, trees, underground.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

The use of dogs has always interested me, so thanks for all the good information.

This is a bit off topic in this thread, but perhaps related. I saw dogs being used when they were looking for Chelsea, but obviously they weren't effective immediately.

Is that due to the type of dog, since she was no longer living or ??? Also, someone mentioned that a dog or dogs were seen jumping into the water in the area where her body was found. The use of cadaver dogs was never mentioned, however. BUT, I was wondering what the alert would be for a cadaver dog over water.
Again, thanks for being so patient and explaining everything so well.

In my experience, most HRD dogs (you were asking about water specifically) are trained to alert with a sit (they stand in boats and look over, similar to a regular pet dog that likes to go for a ride in a boat) a paw and a bark. The handler has to watch where they're alerting to. Sometimes they will jump in the water.

 

[Ghostwheel]

...

This is a bit off topic in this thread, but perhaps related. I saw dogs being used when they were looking for Chelsea, but obviously they weren't effective immediately.

Is that due to the type of dog, since she was no longer living or ??? Also, someone mentioned that a dog or dogs were seen jumping into the water in the area where her body was found. The use of cadaver dogs was never mentioned, however. BUT, I was wondering what the alert would be for a cadaver dog over water.

...

Not derailing, just specifying dogs for reference. The first dogs they called in for Chelsea were tracking dogs (I saw their units, the vehicles are clearly marked that they are tracking dogs). The second set were cadaver dogs. To specify in Amber's case, I have found no mention of cadaver dogs, only tracking dogs.

As an aside, I have found dogs alert differently depending on the situation. I've known some that are trained to lay down at the spot where they have reached their destination, and they get very upset trying to get to where they need to be if they cannot get there. I also knew one that would sit, then stand and point her nose in the direction she needed to go. She would repeat that until her handler could get her where she need to go. When she got there, she'd lie down. Completely calm the entire time.

 

[sarx]

Ghostwheel, just curious, did it say tracking or trailing on their units?

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ghostwheel, just curious, did it say tracking or trailing on their units?

Tracking. They have SUVs with the dog's name on it.

Edited to add: It said Tracking K9 Unit, with the dog's name. I understand these are probably really trailing dogs, but that's what they said.

 

[Tink56]

In my experience, most HRD dogs (you were asking about water specifically) are trained to alert with a sit (they stand in boats and look over, similar to a regular pet dog that likes to go for a ride in a boat) a paw and a bark. The handler has to watch where they're alerting to. Sometimes they will jump in the water.

Many thanks to you and Ghostwheel and Sarx. This information is really helpful!

What happens to trailing dogs and/or tracking dogs when they lose the scent? Does the number of people looking for Chelsea and Amber effect their performance? When the scent trails are crossed by horses and humans other than the victim being tracked can that deter the dogs?

 

[sarx]

Different dogs act differently when they've lost the scent, but it's generally pretty clear that it's not there anymore. Some kinda spin in big circles trying to find it again, some just kinda stop, there is a distinct difference in their body language though it varies dog to dog. No, they can work through heavy crowds, other people and animals should have no bearing on a well trained dog.

 

[sarx]

So the dogs are LE K9's then?

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Not derailing, just specifying dogs for reference. The first dogs they called in for Chelsea were tracking dogs (I saw their units, the vehicles are clearly marked that they are tracking dogs). The second set were cadaver dogs. To specify in Amber's case, I have found no mention of cadaver dogs, only tracking dogs.

As an aside, I have found dogs alert differently depending on the situation. I've known some that are trained to lay down at the spot where they have reached their destination, and they get very upset trying to get to where they need to be if they cannot get there. I also knew one that would sit, then stand and point her nose in the direction she needed to go. She would repeat that until her handler could get her where she need to go. When she got there, she'd lie down. Completely calm the entire time.

Yep. It's all about what makes them happy to alert. Water though- I have not seen any lay down. Ours sit and bark as an alert. And if there's actually something in the water on surface, including divers? they want in. And you have to remind them real quick.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Different dogs act differently when they've lost the scent, but it's generally pretty clear that it's not there anymore. Some kinda spin in big circles trying to find it again, some just kinda stop, there is a distinct difference in their body language though it varies dog to dog. No, they can work through heavy crowds, other people and animals should have no bearing on a well trained dog.

Some dogs will 'spin' (and whine and hopefully lay down) when they are alerting. But I agree it takes a certain type of dog to work through heavy crowds and animals. Even the best trained dog can and will get distracted by other animals or crowds if the presence if heavy enough.