Dr. Lynne Fenton, psychiatrist treating JH-BACKGROUND INFO

[newsleuther]

Never heard of such a thing and don't believe it was part of any exit interview type process.

I work in corporate, it's done with every person who leaves our company (voluntarily/laid off/etc).

You sit down with HR and they do an "exit interview" where they ask you questions about your time w/ the company, what you liked, what you didn't like, why you are leaving, etc

very common in the corporate world.

Quick google search shows that it is common with HS and Colleges with students withdrawing (or even graduating) as well... mandated in some states in fact (for HS). Looks like they want to collect data on why students are leaving.

It is also required for anyone receiving student loans/aid. While JH was not receiving Financial Aid, it could be required since he was receiving federal funds as a part of the grant

The answer is simple: before graduation or after dropping below half-time attendance, federal regulations require students having federal student loans to complete an exit counseling session.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=college+exit+interview

 

[jjenny]

Holmes didn't have a federal student loan. Training grant is not a student loan. You don't have to pay it back.

 

[newsleuther]

Holmes didn't have a federal student loan. Training grant is not a student loan. You don't have to pay it back.

Yes, I stated that in my post. There could be requirements in place upon leaving the grant program, however.

It could also be a standard procedure at the college to have an exit interview conducted on every student, as they are quite common.

In short: It is a likely possibility that an exit interview was conducted.

 

[DeadCat]

Yes, I stated that in my post. There could be requirements in place upon leaving the grant program, however.

It could also be a standard procedure at the college to have an exit interview conducted on every student, as they are quite common.

In short: It is a likely possibility that an exit interview was conducted.

An interesting thought, but I don't think it's the reason. Usually exit interviews and financial aid counseling is not done by a clinical counselor (psychiatrist). Also, the news previously reported that he'd been seen by 3 different counselors at the uni, no? Maybe the first 2 who saw him earlier recommended Fenton see him.

 

[DeadCat]

.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ect-and-shrink

Fenton testified Thursday during a hearing in Holmes' murder case that she had no contact with Holmes after June 11. That same day, Fenton said, she contacted Officer Lynn Whitten about a patient. Fenton did not identify the patient, citing the confidentiality issues that were the focus of Thursday's hearing.

"I was trying to gather information for myself," Fenton said.

"I communicated with Officer Whitten," Fenton said later, "to gather more information about this case and to communicate my concerns."

Read more: James Holmes' psychiatrist went to cops with concerns about a patient - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...ter-shooting-suspect-and-shrink#ixzz2595HGARP

I'm confused, did she report him to the BETA team or not?

 

[Nemont]

An interesting thought, but I don't think it's the reason. Usually exit interviews and financial aid counseling is not done by a clinical counselor (psychiatrist). Also, the news previously reported that he'd been seen by 3 different counselors at the uni, no? Maybe the first 2 who saw him earlier recommended Fenton see him.

I too, think it was an exit interview. And nothing says that the 3 different counselors were all psychs. Anyone who gives advice (counsel) can be called a counselor, including attorneys, ministers, social workers, as well as laymen acting on behalf of a company/entity....ie. camp counselor, admissions counselor, financial counselor, grief counselor, dietary counselor…you get the idea...

 

[DeadCat]

I too, think it was an exit interview. And nothing says that the 3 different counselors were all psychs. Anyone who gives advice (counsel) can be called a counselor, including attorneys, ministers, social workers, as well as laymen acting on behalf of a company/entity....ie. camp counselor, admissions counselor, financial counselor, grief counselor, dietary counselor…you get the idea...

Maybe. The university withdrawal form (recently updated, though, I think--see the creation date) doesn't require any exit interview specifically with Fenton.
See form here:
http://www.ucdenver.edu/student-ser...r/Documents/RegistrarForms/AMC/withdrawal.pdf

 

[Nemont]

Maybe. The university withdrawal form (recently updated, though, I think--see the creation date) doesn't require any exit interview specifically with Fenton.
See form here:
http://www.ucdenver.edu/student-ser...r/Documents/RegistrarForms/AMC/withdrawal.pdf

You're right, it doesn't. I wonder if he requested to meet with her and that is what created the "doctor/patient" relationship issue? Or maybe it was one meeting, with subsequent phone calls or emails? I don't understand how they could have had a Dr./patient relationship with only one meeting knowing that he would no longer be on campus (as he was in the process of withdrawing/leaving) - why begin a Dr./Patient relationship? Why not refer him to another Dr., or, suggest he see one once he goes back home?

 

[ciela]

An interesting thought, but I don't think it's the reason. Usually exit interviews and financial aid counseling is not done by a clinical counselor (psychiatrist). Also, the news previously reported that he'd been seen by 3 different counselors at the uni, no? Maybe the first 2 who saw him earlier recommended Fenton see him.

I have to agree with you here, the head of the clinic wouldnt have met with JH unless there were "flags" - her time is too costly. I also do not believe her therapeutic relationship ended when he left her office per her professional ethical guidelines.

 

[HastingsChi]

I'm confused, did she report him to the BETA team or not?

Sounds like she reported him to the B.E.T.A. (which of course stands for: Because Eventually we'll Take Action) Team... you know, the no rush- take your time team...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2

 

[DeadCat]

The news reports are saying he met with 3 "mental health professionals." Not "counselors." (And because its it the news, it must be correct, right?)
I looked up UC Hospitals Anschutz Outpatient location and there are only 2 with specialties in psychiatry. I also wondered about the victim who just graduated from UC with a Masters degree in counseling. Do you think he knew JH?

 

[DeadCat]

http://www.ucdenver.edu/life/services/student-assistance/student-resources/Pages/Counseling.aspx

Procedure for after-hours calls:

After-hours emergencies

For after-hours emergencies, please call 720-848-0000 and ask for the on-call psychiatrist.

Please identify yourself as a student to help the operator route your call correctly.

Student health team (This can't be all counselors for a large university/center, can it? Perhaps there are student counselors too):

The Student Mental Health Service covers all Anschutz Medical Campus students. Our team consists of two psychiatrists, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, and a clinical nurse specialist.

 

[ciela]

The news reports are saying he met with 3 "mental health professionals." Not "counselors." (And because its it the news, it must be correct, right?)
I looked up UC Hospitals Anschutz Outpatient location and there are only 2 with specialties in psychiatry. I also wondered about the victim who just graduated from UC with a Masters degree in counseling. Do you think he knew JH?

I think you would have to know what UC meant by "professionals". In my world, professional means LICENSED/ACCREDITED and not working under someone elses license ie supervisee/internshipee.

"DENVER, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Accused Colorado gunman James Holmes, charged with killing 12 people in a movie theater rampage last month, saw at least three mental health professionals at the University of Colorado before the shooting, a CBS News affiliate reported on Tuesday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/james-holmes-mental-health-colorado_n_1820450.html

 

[HastingsChi]

http://www.ucdenver.edu/life/services/student-assistance/student-resources/Pages/Counseling.aspx

Procedure for after-hours calls:




Student health team (This can't be all counselors for a large university/center, can it? Perhaps there are student counselors too):

DeadCat thank you for pulling together this important info and sharing it with us; I appreciate it.

This pre shooting call begs the question: Is someone insane if they are reaching out for help before committing atrocities or demonstrating a calculated part of his vast plan to showcase "insanity" as part of an intricate evil plan to kill?

 

[ladeda7777]

DeadCat thank you for pulling together this important info and sharing it with us; I appreciate it.

This pre shooting call begs the question: Is someone insane if they are reaching out for help before committing atrocities or demonstrating a calculated part of his vast plan to showcase "insanity" as part of an intricate evil plan to kill?

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/movie_theater/

“Ordinarily, psychiatrists have a duty of confidentiality to a patient. But, depending on the circumstances, psychiatrists also can be found to have a legal duty to warn identifiable third parties and appropriate law
enforcement agencies of a potentially dangerous patient. “

I think this is where Dr. Fenton ran into trouble. She heard a threat but to no specific person or venue. So, she could warn the beta team and ask the LE for a background check, but without specifics their hands were tied. It's like being stalked or followed, you can go to the police, but there has been no crime until the person is seen doing it, in action, over time so there is nothing they can do.

We don't know how much James told Fenton. He could have told her that he was going to kill people but he didn't give the name of the venue and he identified no specific person/people.

We don't know if he told her that he had stockpiled ammunition, and that he had purchased four guns. If he had would the police have been able to go to his apartment with a search warrant?

But, whatever it was that he told her was enough for him to attentively watch her walk through the courtroom on Thursday.

Hastings - Reaching out for help is definately very sick(insane? I don't know). Calculated plan - yes (insane? I don't know) For me it all rolls into the same thing. I can say that the event, the crime was evil. I can't yet put that on the suspect. I'll wait to hear more.

 

[ladeda7777]

I think you would have to know what UC meant by "professionals". In my world, professional means LICENSED/ACCREDITED and not working under someone elses license ie supervisee/internshipee.

"DENVER, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Accused Colorado gunman James Holmes, charged with killing 12 people in a movie theater rampage last month, saw at least three mental health professionals at the University of Colorado before the shooting, a CBS News affiliate reported on Tuesday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/james-holmes-mental-health-colorado_n_1820450.html

Grad students (psychology/psychiatry) can be therapists if they are working on a higher degree, under the auspices of a psychiatrist. They can be therapists but they report to the psych/Dr on each case frequently. If they believe more care is needed for the patient (pharmaceutics) they'd be prescribed by the psych/dr. I assume that if there are red flags, the Dr would step in.

 

[ciela]

Grad students (psychology/psychiatry) can be therapists if they are working on a higher degree, under the auspices of a psychiatrist. They can be therapists but they report to the psych/Dr on each case frequently. If they believe more care is needed for the patient (pharmaceutics) they'd be prescribed by the psych/dr. I assume that if there are red flags, the Dr would step in.

I understand your interpretation. But does not the term professional refer to licensed accredited therapist by definition?

 

[DeadCat]

DeadCat thank you for pulling together this important info and sharing it with us; I appreciate it.

This pre shooting call begs the question: Is someone insane if they are reaching out for help before committing atrocities or demonstrating a calculated part of his vast plan to showcase "insanity" as part of an intricate evil plan to kill?

Still wondering why JH didn't ask for anyone during his phone call. 7 seconds is a long time to call and say nothing. Did he remain silent because:
1. he got nervous when the switchboard answered. Maybe he expected Fenton or another counselor ("mental health professional") to answer the phone--if so, he wasn't aware of the "After Hours Emergency Procedure."
2. he never intended to talk. He just wanted his phone to show he'd made the call (but then why stay connected so long)
3. Any other reasons?

What was the purpose of the call:
1) strategy for a defense--appear in need of mental health services
2) get help/seek someone to talk him out of what he planned to do (a little late for this, no? He'd already booby-trapped his apartment and could have blown up his whole building by now)
3) he wanted to report what he was doing. Maybe he'd told Fenton his plans before and wanted to say "see? here I am!" OR "See what you made me do?"
4) Others?

Anyone else want to help me brainstorm?

 

[jjenny]

I think he called because he needed a pre-text to get out of the theater. So nobody would be surprised when he left through the exit door.

 

[ladeda7777]

I understand your interpretation. But does not the term professional refer to licensed accredited therapist by definition?

Ciela, you're right I think. I've looked aound and can't find a definative answer.

This link was interesting.http://www.du.edu/gspp/degree-programs/clinical-psychology/overview/index.html

It talked about the process of becoming the professional but it's still not clear to me. I just question the difference between a professional and a Dr. or whether it's easier for a journalist to put it that way.

Thanks for the question.