Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[BoldBear]

To me the ligature does not look complicated at all. It looks more like a toy not a weapon. And we aren't talking about dumb children. Maybe sick but definitely not dumb.He was familiar with boy scouting and sailing. I bet he knew at 9 more about knots than I do.

Burke was capable of creating the garrot that killed his sister. I just wonder how much weight it would have taken to break the paint brush. Could a boy his size on his hands and knees have broken it by pushing it against the floor? He could do it if he propped it up against something and stomped on it. But I've always envisioned an adult who could have snapped it easily with one hand by pressing it against the floor. I guess it doesn't matter. I tend to focus too much on the mechanics.

 

[bxbbysoxer]

So they're finally playing the special in Australia right now so I'm doing a rewatch, and once again it is absolutely infuriating to watch. I'd say 'I can't believe it' at the things the Ramseys continue to get away with, but at this point nothing shocks me with this case. It's been obvious for a long time that Burke played a big part in this, and yet everyone still treats him with kid gloves. I dare Lin Wood to sue, get him in front of a decent lawyer for five seconds and Burke will crack.

 

[pukasonqo2]

watching the interview now in oz, so far i can only say that burke's constant smile is off putting but, having said that, he might be nervous and it could be a reaction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bxbbysoxer]

So much of the interview, as well as the police interviews, strike me as 'haha, I didn't get caught'.

The reaction to the pineapple photo in the CBS documentary was really telling as well. I've said before I don't believe this was as simple as a whack to the head in the heat of the moment, but you see it with kids all the time. They think if they can't identify the thing, then it means they can't have done it. Catch them writing something on a table, ask them what it says, they suddenly forget how to read, etc..

 

[Djoop]

Burke was capable of creating the garrot that killed his sister. I just wonder how much weight it would have taken to break the paint brush. Could a boy his size on his hands and knees have broken it by pushing it against the floor? He could do it if he propped it up against something and stomped on it. But I've always envisioned an adult who could have snapped it easily with one hand by pressing it against the floor. I guess it doesn't matter. I tend to focus too much on the mechanics.

My mom used to paint, I remember that the materials she used was very expensive - me and my sister wouldn't dare touch her stuff. It may seem like a small transgression, especially compared to the killing of JBR, but Burke destroying one of Patsy's brushes could be an important detail.

 

[Ambitioned]

watching the interview now in oz, so far i can only say that burke's constant smile is off putting but, having said that, he might be nervous and it could be a reaction

Naw!

To paraphrase one of many questions "Did you harm your sister?" (Burke starts beaming with a huge giddy grin)

It's more than just nerves.

 

[Ambitioned]

For those interested, here's Mark McClish's analysis of the Burke Dr Phil interviews:

http://www.statementanalysis.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder/burke-ramsey-interview/

I was going to post a picture of Patsy to show where Burke's Psycho grin came from, but that one's too scary even for me!

 

[sedndun]

First post, so I'll be brief as I've most probably missed things that have been discussed before.

While exploring this case, one of the things I'd been taking notes on was the "model" that John said he had to help Burke with when they got home. John had mentioned that when Burke got his mind on something it was just better to see it through than to fight him on it, and so, they stayed up on Christmas night to finish up the "model" that was perhaps of a parking garage. In my notes I had written the name LEGO, as I couldn't picture them up late pulling out glue and paints for a proper model kit, and Lego seemed a possible answer. Looking up Lego and the case did bring up a box in the basement (unwrapped, but among wrapped gifts.) So I was excited to see that others were wondering if this was the mystery model, but there seems to be no indication of whether this set was opened or even assembled (may have been part of the upcoming birthday gifts.)

Having just watched the Doctor Phil interviews I was astonished when Burke mentioned going down late at night with flashlight to finish a Lego set. This has been discussed here (as it should be- there's Burke admitting to using the flashlight and being up later than claimed) but I think there's some bits that haven't been mentioned that seemed important to me.

Why would a set that John and Burke already stayed up late to finish need to be finished?

I think John tells us a lot at the end of his interview when out of the blue he says (paraphrasing- I'll try and get an exact quote if others think this is important) "Burke wasn't the kind of kid who got mad at his sister. Even if she wrecked his Lego set- he'd just smile and quietly put it back together."

Knowing that there is usually more truth in lies, I couldn't help but feel we'd just been told what may have instigated the violent blow.

I have many other thoughts and notes, but I just wanted to get this bit out there before going in too deep. Thanks for everyone's contributions. This is a such a calm and orderly forum for such a horrible thing- I wish more superficial forums were more like this one.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

First post, so I'll be brief as I've most probably missed things that have been discussed before.

While exploring this case, one of the things I'd been taking notes on was the "model" that John said he had to help Burke with when they got home. John had mentioned that when Burke got his mind on something it was just better to see it through than to fight him on it, and so, they stayed up on Christmas night to finish up the "model" that was perhaps of a parking garage. In my notes I had written the name LEGO, as I couldn't picture them up late pulling out glue and paints for a proper model kit, and Lego seemed a possible answer. Looking up Lego and the case did bring up a box in the basement (unwrapped, but among wrapped gifts.) So I was excited to see that others were wondering if this was the mystery model, but there seems to be no indication of whether this set was opened or even assembled (may have been part of the upcoming birthday gifts.)

Having just watched the Doctor Phil interviews I was astonished when Burke mentioned going down late at night with flashlight to finish a Lego set. This has been discussed here (as it should be- there's Burke admitting to using the flashlight and being up later than claimed) but I think there's some bits that haven't been mentioned that seemed important to me.

Why would a set that John and Burke already stayed up late to finish need to be finished?

I think John tells us a lot at the end of his interview when out of the blue he says (paraphrasing- I'll try and get an exact quote if others think this is important) "Burke wasn't the kind of kid who got mad at his sister. Even if she wrecked his Lego set- he'd just smile and quietly put it back together."

Knowing that there is usually more truth in lies, I couldn't help but feel we'd just been told what may have instigated the violent blow.

I have many other thoughts and notes, but I just wanted to get this bit out there before going in too deep. Thanks for everyone's contributions. This is a such a calm and orderly forum for such a horrible thing- I wish more superficial forums were more like this one.

Welcome to the forum! I am fairly new here too. :greetings:

Funny you should be asking about this, because it's the same thing I've just started discussing in this thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?116359-What-s-in-this-cellar-room-photo/

Check out the last few pages. That quote of John's looks extra interesting, I hope you can find the exact passage. Did Burke really specifically mention LEGO in the interview?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

First post, so I'll be brief as I've most probably missed things that have been discussed before.

While exploring this case, one of the things I'd been taking notes on was the "model" that John said he had to help Burke with when they got home. John had mentioned that when Burke got his mind on something it was just better to see it through than to fight him on it, and so, they stayed up on Christmas night to finish up the "model" that was perhaps of a parking garage. In my notes I had written the name LEGO, as I couldn't picture them up late pulling out glue and paints for a proper model kit, and Lego seemed a possible answer. Looking up Lego and the case did bring up a box in the basement (unwrapped, but among wrapped gifts.) So I was excited to see that others were wondering if this was the mystery model, but there seems to be no indication of whether this set was opened or even assembled (may have been part of the upcoming birthday gifts.)

Having just watched the Doctor Phil interviews I was astonished when Burke mentioned going down late at night with flashlight to finish a Lego set. This has been discussed here (as it should be- there's Burke admitting to using the flashlight and being up later than claimed) but I think there's some bits that haven't been mentioned that seemed important to me.

Why would a set that John and Burke already stayed up late to finish need to be finished?

I think John tells us a lot at the end of his interview when out of the blue he says (paraphrasing- I'll try and get an exact quote if others think this is important) "Burke wasn't the kind of kid who got mad at his sister. Even if she wrecked his Lego set- he'd just smile and quietly put it back together."

Knowing that there is usually more truth in lies, I couldn't help but feel we'd just been told what may have instigated the violent blow.

I have many other thoughts and notes, but I just wanted to get this bit out there before going in too deep. Thanks for everyone's contributions. This is a such a calm and orderly forum for such a horrible thing- I wish more superficial forums were more like this one.

Thanks for your post! And good catch! I missed the references on Dr Phil to the Lego set and had wondered what the so called "toy" was. This may be one of the missing links.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[sedndun]

I went back and found the exact quote- it is in the very last minute of the third episode with Dr. Phil. John Ramsey says, "They were great together. You know, JonBenet would knock over his Lego projects sometimes- Burke would just... (John smiles and shrugs, then pretends to put things back together with his hands) put them back together (laugh.)"

I'll see if I can find Burke mentioning the Lego set anywhere in the interview. He mentioned putting together a toy, and I may have assumed Lego as it was already on my mind, and then hearing it from John cemented it in my mind.

 

[UKGuy]

First post, so I'll be brief as I've most probably missed things that have been discussed before.

While exploring this case, one of the things I'd been taking notes on was the "model" that John said he had to help Burke with when they got home. John had mentioned that when Burke got his mind on something it was just better to see it through than to fight him on it, and so, they stayed up on Christmas night to finish up the "model" that was perhaps of a parking garage. In my notes I had written the name LEGO, as I couldn't picture them up late pulling out glue and paints for a proper model kit, and Lego seemed a possible answer. Looking up Lego and the case did bring up a box in the basement (unwrapped, but among wrapped gifts.) So I was excited to see that others were wondering if this was the mystery model, but there seems to be no indication of whether this set was opened or even assembled (may have been part of the upcoming birthday gifts.)

Having just watched the Doctor Phil interviews I was astonished when Burke mentioned going down late at night with flashlight to finish a Lego set. This has been discussed here (as it should be- there's Burke admitting to using the flashlight and being up later than claimed) but I think there's some bits that haven't been mentioned that seemed important to me.

Why would a set that John and Burke already stayed up late to finish need to be finished?

I think John tells us a lot at the end of his interview when out of the blue he says (paraphrasing- I'll try and get an exact quote if others think this is important) "Burke wasn't the kind of kid who got mad at his sister. Even if she wrecked his Lego set- he'd just smile and quietly put it back together."

Knowing that there is usually more truth in lies, I couldn't help but feel we'd just been told what may have instigated the violent blow.

I have many other thoughts and notes, but I just wanted to get this bit out there before going in too deep. Thanks for everyone's contributions. This is a such a calm and orderly forum for such a horrible thing- I wish more superficial forums were more like this one.

sedndun,
interesting quote, there might be something in it, who knows? JonBenet was know to annoy BR when he was engaged in playing games, so it is not entirely unknown.

Just why would BR and JonBenet be down in the cold, dark basement on Christmas night, when its warm upstairs where their new toys are located?

.

 

[TexMex]

I went back and found the exact quote- it is in the very last minute of the third episode with Dr. Phil. John Ramsey says, "They were great together. You know, JonBenet would knock over his Lego projects sometimes- Burke would just... (John smiles and shrugs, then pretends to put things back together with his hands) put them back together (laugh.)"

I'll see if I can find Burke mentioning the Lego set anywhere in the interview. He mentioned putting together a toy, and I may have assumed Lego as it was already on my mind, and then hearing it from John cemented it in my mind.

I think the new Lego set was unopened down in the basement IIRC

 

[ZoriahNZ]

That is correct Tex Mex. There is a LEGO System Monorail set, not listed as one of the toys opened for Christmas that day. However, we have crime scene photographic evidence (in the other thread) of it being partially unwrapped and in the wine cellar.

 

[TexMex]

That is correct Tex Mex. There is a LEGO System Monorail set, not listed as one of the toys opened for Christmas that day. However, we have crime scene photographic evidence (in the other thread) of it being partially unwrapped and in the wine cellar.

Perhaps it was to be taken to Michigan? Or for his upcoming 10th birthday?

 

[BoldBear]

I've been watching YouTube with episodes from Psychologist Kevin Dutton. I actually hate to bring the idea here because some people will twist this and make Burke seem like a remorseless murder. (I don't have enough information on him to decide one way or the other.) You also know the preconceived notion about psychopaths and how they're killers. It's not actually true. The psychopath must also be into violence and must love to kill. That's actually rare among psychopaths.

I'm going to paraphrase what Kevin Dutton presented. I might get some of it wrong so please see what he has to say for yourself.

It's estimated that psychopaths make up about 1% of the population (although I remember another odd estimate being 1 in 20 or 5%). Unintelligent and/or violent psychopaths usually wind-up in prison. It's estimated that 20% of a prison population are psychopaths. Where are the other psychopaths in our society? Oddly enough, psychopaths or people who can't empathize, are everywhere. They go into business, banking, become religious clergy, and become surges to name a few professions. They go along with society's rules and get married and have families. Many live ordinary lives. And oddly enough, they also make decisions to save lives.

The reason why I'm bringing this up is because there are other traits of psychopaths. Psychopaths don't tend to procrastinate. They have charm, ego eccentricity, persuasiveness and a lack of empathy. They don't just tolerate risk, but thrive on it.

Sound like anyone you know from this case?

There's also the common argument of biology vs environment. Some are believed to be born psychopaths while others are created from their surroundings.

Kevin's book sounds like a good read for a nerd like myself. At times like this, I'm missing my best friend deeply. He was a retired psychiatrist. Even though we almost never talked about his profession, he wouldn't have any trouble helping me understand these concepts if I asked. He had some really amazing insights about the criminal mind. The thing he always drilled into my head was "never try to understand crazy." Too bad. I've never been able to follow that advice.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I've been watching YouTube with episodes from Psychologist Kevin Dutton. I actually hate to bring the idea here because some people will twist this and make Burke seem like a remorseless murder. (I don't have enough information on him to decide one way or the other.) You also know the preconceived notion about psychopaths and how they're killers. It's not actually true. The psychopath must also be into violence and must love to kill. That's actually rare among psychopaths.

I'm going to paraphrase what Kevin Dutton presented. I might get some of it wrong so please see what he has to say for yourself.

It's estimated that psychopaths make up about 1% of the population (although I remember another odd estimate being 1 in 20 or 5%). Unintelligent and/or violent psychopaths usually wind-up in prison. It's estimated that 20% of a prison population are psychopaths. Where are the other psychopaths in our society? Oddly enough, psychopaths or people who can't empathize, are everywhere. They go into business, banking, become religious clergy, and become surges to name a few professions. They go along with society's rules and get married and have families. Many live ordinary lives. And oddly enough, they also make decisions to save lives.

The reason why I'm bringing this up is because there are other traits of psychopaths. Psychopaths don't tend to procrastinate. They have charm, ego eccentricity, persuasiveness and a lack of empathy. They don't just tolerate risk, but thrive on it.

Sound like anyone you know from this case?

There's also the common argument of biology vs environment. Some are believed to be born psychopaths while others are created from their surroundings.

Kevin's book sounds like a good read for a nerd like myself. At times like this, I'm missing my best friend deeply. He was a retired psychiatrist. Even though we almost never talked about his profession, he wouldn't have any trouble helping me understand these concepts if I asked. He had some really amazing insights about the criminal mind. The thing he always drilled into my head was "never try to understand crazy." Too bad. I've never been able to follow that advice.

Thanks, interesting topic. Where would you draw the line between a narcissist and non violent psychopath? They share similar behaviors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[DexterMorgan]

The kid was smearing poop throughout the house and sisters room at near 10 years old and the family was afraid of him or his reactions if they told him no.

So they just went along with whatever the psychopath wanted to do.

Plus I think granny was too busy preparing her little Miss America and not helping with putting Burke in his place at a early age. Jmo.

I'm just surprised he wasn't diagnosed with something at that age.

Because I doubt a shrink would chalk that up to boys will be boys.

Or throwing poop is a phase that he will grow out of. Jmo.

The kid had problems.

 

[DeDee]

MHO, all four Rs possessed varying degrees of NPD.

Not all psychopaths are killers.
Psychopaths make excellent CEOs b/c they're in charge as the Boss. Hence, others are beneath them. They are usually of high intelligence and take in information readily. They take high risks but usually land on their feet quickly. They tend to be loners, manipulators, persuasive, controllers, and charming.

Sociopaths are socially adept which BR is not. BR is not a psychopath either, JMHO.

BR has functioning Asperger's.
There is no cure. Can be treated or controlled with medication.
Abilify as a mood stabilizer is a possible medication that BRs psychiatrist prescribed.
Many Asper's are violent or experience seasons of violence.
BR knows right from wrong. He is highly intelligent.
Possessing co-morbids could influence his behavior.

Asper's should not view TV or be exposed to violence on radio or TV (or Nintendo64). It makes them excitable. They need to draw, read and color and maintain a quiet atmosphere. I don't envision the Rs household as being quiet, esp. that month in December.

Sadly, this was Burke at Christmas 1996:
"Kids (and adults) with Aspergers and High-Functioning Autism are prone to frustration, anger – and sometimes violence. The rapidity and intensity of anger, often in response to a relatively trivial event, can be extreme. When feeling angry, the child with Aspergers does not appear to be able to pause and think of alternative strategies to resolve the situation. There is often an instantaneous physical response without careful thought. When the anger is intense, the youngster with Aspergers may be in a blind rage and unable to see the signals indicating that it would be appropriate to stop."

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/06/anger-and-violence-in-aspergers.html?m=1

Disclaimer: I am not a Doctor of Medicine. This is my opinion only. Do not share this information anywhere without permission which will not be granted.

 

[DexterMorgan]

MHO, all four Rs possessed varying degrees of NPD.

Not all psychopaths are killers.
Psychopaths make excellent CEOs b/c they're in charge as the Boss. Hence, others are beneath them. They are usually of high intelligence and take in information readily. They take high risks but usually land on their feet quickly. They tend to be loners, manipulators, persuasive, controllers, and charming.

Sociopaths are socially adept which BR is not. BR is not a psychopath either, JMHO.

BR has functioning Asperger's.
There is no cure. Can be treated or controlled with medication.
Abilify as a mood stabilizer is a possible medication that BRs psychiatrist prescribed.
Many Asper's are violent or experience seasons of violence.
BR knows right from wrong. He is highly intelligent.
Possessing co-morbids could influence his behavior.

Asper's should not view TV or be exposed to violence on radio or TV (or Nintendo64). It makes them excitable. They need to draw, read and color and maintain a quiet atmosphere. I don't envision the Rs household as being quiet, esp. that month in December.

Sadly, this was Burke at Christmas 1996:
"Kids (and adults) with Aspergers and High-Functioning Autism are prone to frustration, anger – and sometimes violence. The rapidity and intensity of anger, often in response to a relatively trivial event, can be extreme. When feeling angry, the child with Aspergers does not appear to be able to pause and think of alternative strategies to resolve the situation. There is often an instantaneous physical response without careful thought. When the anger is intense, the youngster with Aspergers may be in a blind rage and unable to see the signals indicating that it would be appropriate to stop."

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/06/anger-and-violence-in-aspergers.html?m=1

Disclaimer: I am not a Doctor of Medicine. This is my opinion only. Do not share this information anywhere without permission which will not be granted.

So are you saying that he killed her or what?

Lol.