Dr. Phil w/George and Cindy Anthony Air Date 9/13 and 9/14 2011 Thead # 2

[yolorado]

You are exactly right. But as an ex-LE he knew what he was smelling all right but also knew that CA had been in touch with KC so he knew it was not KC. That being said he was not going to call LE until he got to the bottom of what was going on. IMO CA said, "Go to work, I'll get in touch with KC and get to the bottom of it and make her bring me to Caylee tonight." GA did text LA with the message that KC was in big trouble. Any parent immediately goes into protective mode until they can make sense of what is going on. GA said himself that no one wants to believe that someone you love would do such a thing. I am not trying to excuse his actions only trying to explain how an ex-LE might think sometimes because of the way they have been conditioned. jmo

Putting myself in the same position, I doubt I would have done anything differently because, no matter how bad things were with her, I think that these people had no idea that their daughter was capable of murdering their granddaughter. Since they'd been in contact with her every day, they knew she was alive and assumed the baby was too. I could see myself driving the car home- determined at that point to, once and for all, find out what the heck was up, but thinking that someone had murdered someone without any time to investigate or process? That wouldn't be a concept most parents would be ready to bite right into. (For Cindy, it's three years and counting.) The Anthonys knew there were issues with Casey. She'd been acting in ways they didn't like. They knew something was going on and that they had to get to the bottom of it. Now, they REALLY knew that, but to imagine that the something was murder and/or their granddaughter's body had been in the trunk? No matter what the car smelled like, or what their occupations were, the initial reaction for most parents given these particular circumstances would be denial. I would have driven the car home and then done something ... just like they did. If I'd suspected my child might murder someone, or if I hadn't been in contact with my child, I would have almost certainly reacted differently, but under the same circumstances, I can see myself reacting in similar fashion.

 

[MsMacGyver]

What was her answer?

TIA

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you but CA said..Caylee was missing in my heart. Dr. P was grilling both CA and GA about the fact they hadn't heard a peep out of Caylee for 31 days. On July 3rd CA drove to Universal to see the felon and Caylee but never explained what she found out at Universal. CA once again skimmed over this and went on to say that the felon was in Jacksonville. It was on July 3rd that CA also posted this message to the felon..My Caylee is missing...in "hopes" that the felon would read the message.

 

[LambChop]

Putting myself in the same position, I doubt I would have done anything differently because, no matter how bad things were with her, I think that these people had no idea that their daughter was capable of murdering their granddaughter. Since they'd been in contact with her every day, they knew she was alive and assumed the baby was too. I could see myself driving the car home- determined at that point to, once and for all, find out what the heck was up, but thinking that someone had murdered someone without any time to investigate or process? That wouldn't be a concept most parents would be ready to bite right into. (For Cindy, it's three years and counting.) The Anthonys knew there were issues with Casey. She'd been acting in ways they didn't like. They knew something was going on and that they had to get to the bottom of it. Now, they REALLY knew that, but to imagine that the something was murder and/or their granddaughter's body had been in the trunk? No matter what the car smelled like, or what their occupations were, the initial reaction for most parents given these particular circumstances would be denial. I would have driven the car home and then done something ... just like they did. If I'd suspected my child might murder someone, or if I hadn't been in contact with my child, I would have almost certainly reacted differently, but under the same circumstances, I can see myself reacting in similar fashion.

Let's not forget that while KC was out on bail GA bought a gun. From what he, himself described and what others have told us about how hard he tried to get KC to talk I don't think the gun was for their protection, which is what he claims. I believe he was mad enough to do something drastic, including holding a gun to her head when no one was around to get the answer he knew would be the truth. Had he been successful he just may have gotten the truth out of her. At that point I think he would have gone to LE because I don't think he would have left Caylee's body stay out there. jmo

 

[jon_burrows]

These were for the civil case so I think at the time both of them were not going to cooperate because they felt the bus might be coming their way in terms of being sued. No reason for them to lie but I believe that is why they were so defensive. They took it personally. jmo

Why would they be sued, perhaps because of all their lies previous to the depo? A lie is a lie and under oath that's perjury. They told many lies during during those depos with their lawyer sitting right next to them. We aren't talking about who ate the last cookie, we're talking about the murder of an innocent child (their granddaughter). They made a mockery of our justice system and worse, they made a mockery of Caylee's murder. Why did they need an attorney by their side at all times and still do?

They continued lying on their 'Case in Innocent Tour' after the depo. The detective begged CA to stop lying to the public because it hurt their chances of finding Caylee. CA ignored that advice and GA was happy to go along with that farce.

GA knows right from wrong. He is a grown man. I don't buy the theory that Cindy made him do it.

Why would 'grieving grandparents' need a lawyer? Why wouldn't they take a polygraph? Why did they ask for immunity? Because they lied during the investigation of THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER.

I don't buy this new and approved GA---Oh I've finally seen the light BS. He is doing whatever will bring him the most money. I would not be surprised if they get divorced after the money finally drys up from their traveling circus freak show tour. They can split the blood money and go their separate ways, but only after they've exhausted all their blood money interviews.

IMO IMO IMO

 

[LambChop]

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you but CA said..Caylee was missing in my heart. Dr. P was grilling both CA and GA about the fact they hadn't heard a peep out of Caylee for 31 days. On July 3rd CA drove to Universal to see the felon and Caylee but never explained what she found out at Universal. CA once again skimmed over this and went on to say that the felon was in Jacksonville. It was on July 3rd that CA also posted this message to the felon..My Caylee is missing...in "hopes" that the felon would read the message.

And didn't she say in that message that KC had no job???

 

[mikeysmommom]

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you but CA said..Caylee was missing in my heart. Dr. P was grilling both CA and GA about the fact they hadn't heard a peep out of Caylee for 31 days. On July 3rd CA drove to Universal to see the felon and Caylee but never explained what she found out at Universal. CA once again skimmed over this and went on to say that the felon was in Jacksonville. It was on July 3rd that CA also posted this message to the felon..My Caylee is missing...in "hopes" that the felon would read the message.

Cindy did not find anything out at Universal because she never left her car.
IIRC Cindy said she waited for KC to meet her then after waiting for over an hour she finally reached KC by phone,that is when she was told by KC that she was in Jacksonville.She never went into Universal,she probably waited for KC so they could enter employee entrance and she would not have to pay to get in.

 

[jon_burrows]

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you but CA said..Caylee was missing in my heart. Dr. P was grilling both CA and GA about the fact they hadn't heard a peep out of Caylee for 31 days. On July 3rd CA drove to Universal to see the felon and Caylee but never explained what she found out at Universal. CA once again skimmed over this and went on to say that the felon was in Jacksonville. It was on July 3rd that CA also posted this message to the felon..My Caylee is missing...in "hopes" that the felon would read the message.

Thanks for the reply. So they glossed over some of the most important point such as:

- Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her.

- This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is watching out for the little angel, if you believe CA, MOTY.

IMO

 

[What'sThatClue]

And didn't she say in that message that KC had no job???

She sure did, as I remember.

 

[LambChop]

Why would they be sued, perhaps because of all their lies previous to the depo? A lie is a lie and under oath that's perjury. They told many lies during during those depos with their lawyer sitting right next to them. We aren't talking about who ate the last cookie, we're talking about the murder of an innocent child (their granddaughter). They made a mockery of our justice system and worse, they made a mockery of Caylee's murder. Why did they need an attorney by their side at all times and still do?

There continued lying on their 'Case in Innocent Tour' after the depo. The detective begged CA to stop lying to the public because it hurt their chances of finding Caylee. CA ignored that advice and GA was happy to go along with that farce
GA knows right from wrong. He is a grown man. I don't buy the theory that Cindy made him do it.

Why would 'grieving grandparents' need a lawyer? Why wouldn't they take a polygraph? Why did they ask for immunity? Because they lied during the investigation of THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER.

I don't buy this new and approved GA---Oh I've finally seen the light BS. He is doing whatever will bring him the most money. I would not be surprised if they get divorced after the money finally drys up from their traveling circus freak show tour. They can split the blood money and go their separate ways, but only after they've exhausted all their blood money interviews.

IMO

I

Their fear was from CA stating to the media that KC never saw a picture of ZG to effectively eliminate her as a suspect. Once CA spoke to the media on KC's behalf she became an agent for KC and could be liable, or at least their attorney believed they could be sued.

Not making any excuses for GA because I don't think he has changed, just the rules of the game has changed. JB used GA to get as much information from him and even the staying away from court if you knew it would save KC's life was a message to GA he needed to continue to be a team member. There is no doubt JB used them to his benefit and CA would have easily been the target if she were easier to bring down than GA.

So here he is now. What have we got? He felt initially that LE betrayed him. Then JB comes along and uses him as a scapegoat to keep KC from DP and CA is right there helping JB up to the end. JB obviously explaining to CA that Caylee is gone, she can't do anything to save her but KC is still here. KC could have more children. Mission accomplished but the only one left with visible scars is GA. CA will recover in her own little world she has fabricated. GA will never recover because GA knew from the beginning KC killed Caylee and he can't dismiss that fact as easily as CA can. jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He knew Caylee was dead and he flew all over the place to spew his lies and collect a handout. He knew that smell was decomp but it morphed into pizza. When he found out there was no pizza, the odor turned into garbage.

How could anyone with a conscience set up a fake foundation and collect money for a child he knew was dead? That is fraud. It did not take him years to come up with 1 + 1 = 2. He knew the rare duct tape over Caylee's face and head was his but the lies kept coming.

I have no doubt his testimony would have been completely different if he hadn't been labeled a pedophile.

He participated in every 'Casey if innocent' tour. GA does what's best for GA. Like father like daughter. Same with CA.

BBM - Check out the Morgan depos and what GA said under oath. It was perfectly fine for him to lie under oath until he became a target. George is for George.

I still remember one of the detective telling GA he knew a lot about a lot of things. I guess that's up for interpretation but I believe the detective was referring to GA knowing more about Caylee's death than he was willing to tell.

IMO

Of course he did at the time. She was his daughter and no father wants to believe their child is capable of harming their grandchild.

I am not so harsh on George. At that time it would be very understandable to me that he was in total denial. I don't think that is unusual. What is unusual is to still be in denial three years after Caylee's death and that is what Cindy seems to do ..........not George.

I will never believe he truly had convinced himself beyond all doubt that Caylee was dead. He desperately wanted to cling to anything that showed otherwise. Imo, he pushed those thoughts aside as they were just way too brutal for him to comprehend. Denial is powerful and it doesn't go away over night. Did he deep down know the car smelled of decomp? Yes in his subconscious mind most likely, but he could not let himself believe that for it would mean Caylee was never coming home alive again. It was far better to think the smell was really garbage than to come to grips it was the odor emitting from his dead granddaughter's body. Was it rational thinking? NO but when traumatic events happen that are so horrible the mind does not think rationally but it's all over the place looking for excuses and hope.

Now I do feeling Cindy may have known more about Caylee's death than George but then that would be shared in secrecy with her psycho daughter and they left George in the dark just like they did everything else.

George stood up for Caylee and was accused of throwing the felon under the bus. That was not for George......but for Caylee.

IMO

 

[BuzzieCat]

Lol, and this is exactly what CA is saying to the world with The Foundation, and why I kept saying that is why there are Courts and attorneys for these types of issues. A lot more grandparents out there just like what you just described than anyone wants to know. Just go to your local Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court one day when you find out they are having the "custody docket", sit in there, watch and listen. You will be shocked. *I am in no way putting down the grandparents that are trying for custody if there truly is a need, those cases exist too.

I feel bad for the cases where there is a true need, and there are probably a lot of sad endings where the court ruled incorrectly or took too long to rule. Turns out there was a true need in this case, too, but CA/GA would have had to put some time, money, and effort into it. IMO they wanted the courts to allow them to just take Caylee and kick Casey out with no evidence provided, no court time or lawyer required. When they found out that they would have to show Casey was an unfit mother, they abandoned the idea. That's why their "grandparents' rights" cause is such a laugh. The law is never going to be changed to "grandparents can take the child, no explanation needed."

Also, their purpose statement is appalling. Their lives might be different today had they had some other choices available as grandparents?

Putting myself in the same position, I doubt I would have done anything differently because, no matter how bad things were with her, I think that these people had no idea that their daughter was capable of murdering their granddaughter. Since they'd been in contact with her every day, they knew she was alive and assumed the baby was too. I could see myself driving the car home- determined at that point to, once and for all, find out what the heck was up, but thinking that someone had murdered someone without any time to investigate or process? That wouldn't be a concept most parents would be ready to bite right into. (For Cindy, it's three years and counting.) The Anthonys knew there were issues with Casey. She'd been acting in ways they didn't like. They knew something was going on and that they had to get to the bottom of it. Now, they REALLY knew that, but to imagine that the something was murder and/or their granddaughter's body had been in the trunk? No matter what the car smelled like, or what their occupations were, the initial reaction for most parents given these particular circumstances would be denial. I would have driven the car home and then done something ... just like they did. If I'd suspected my child might murder someone, or if I hadn't been in contact with my child, I would have almost certainly reacted differently, but under the same circumstances, I can see myself reacting in similar fashion.

You have a point. As much as I dislike them, I really don't think they thought the situation was so dangerous that Caylee would be killed. I'm sure that it was easy for them to fall back on their usual pattern when they found the condition of the car - GA stays out of it and CA "takes care of it." However, GA himself said he thought "please don't let it be Caylee" when the trunk was about to be opened. That smell had to be powerfully bad. He knew they hadn't seen Caylee in a month and that Casey had been making unbelievable excuses for that. I do believe at that point I would be pretty concerned about what was going on. I wouldn't want to go to work and be wondering what was going on at home.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Putting myself in the same position, I doubt I would have done anything differently because, no matter how bad things were with her, I think that these people had no idea that their daughter was capable of murdering their granddaughter. Since they'd been in contact with her every day, they knew she was alive and assumed the baby was too. I could see myself driving the car home- determined at that point to, once and for all, find out what the heck was up, but thinking that someone had murdered someone without any time to investigate or process? That wouldn't be a concept most parents would be ready to bite right into. (For Cindy, it's three years and counting.) The Anthonys knew there were issues with Casey. She'd been acting in ways they didn't like. They knew something was going on and that they had to get to the bottom of it. Now, they REALLY knew that, but to imagine that the something was murder and/or their granddaughter's body had been in the trunk? No matter what the car smelled like, or what their occupations were, the initial reaction for most parents given these particular circumstances would be denial. I would have driven the car home and then done something ... just like they did. If I'd suspected my child might murder someone, or if I hadn't been in contact with my child, I would have almost certainly reacted differently, but under the same circumstances, I can see myself reacting in similar fashion.

My question is...If GA & CA would not believe their daughter was capable of murder or even if they thought at the time an accident had happened, why did they go into a cover up mode. How did they know at that moment, that maybe someone else was involved, even perhaps a stranger. Did the A's consider they might be destroying evidence of a crime commited by someone else, that they may be destroying evidence that would be helpful to their daughter...My answer would be NO..Why did they assume that whatever happened in that car needed to be covered up?

If I had been there and knew what that smell was, even if I had been in contact with my daughter, I would assume something had happened maybe of a criminal nature and the LE should be called. Believe me, my daughter is no angel. She has put our family through the ringer and she also has a son.
I believe there was alot of evidence in that car and on the felons clothes that would have drawn a line directly from the felon to Caylee and the A's suspected this but yet they were "let off the hook for destroying evidence" because of CA's readily available sympathy card..I've lost my grandaughter or My grandaughter is missing.......:banghead:

Why did CA tell GA to go to work...Consider the possibility that CA knew if GA was home, she might not be able to "get away with destroying evidence'. Maybe LE would not have let them both off the hook but since GA had left, which looks suspicious in itself, CA was able to do this and claim she wasn't thinking clearly , her grandaughter was missing, not dead.

 

[LambChop]

Cindy did not find anything out at Universal because she never left her car.
IIRC Cindy said she waited for KC to meet her then after waiting for over an hour she finally reached KC by phone,that is when she was told by KC that she was in Jacksonville.She never went into Universal,she probably waited for KC so they could enter employee entrance and she would not have to pay to get in.

But in one of her depositions didn't CA say she walked across a bridge headed into Universal. I believe she has stated she was out of the car and walked up to the area where you pay for tickets and then she called KC. She did not go in but she had to have paid for packing. It may have been in the last depo she did for SA, but I've never been to Universal and was trying to visualize what she was saying. Anyone else remember that. jmo

 

[Concerned Papa]

You are exactly right. But as an ex-LE he knew what he was smelling all right but also knew that CA had been in touch with KC so he knew it was not KC. That being said he was not going to call LE until he got to the bottom of what was going on. IMO CA said, "Go to work, I'll get in touch with KC and get to the bottom of it and make her bring me to Caylee tonight." GA did text LA with the message that KC was in big trouble. Any parent immediately goes into protective mode until they can make sense of what is going on. GA said himself that no one wants to believe that someone you love would do such a thing. I am not trying to excuse his actions only trying to explain how an ex-LE might think sometimes because of the way they have been conditioned. jmo

If he knew that CA had been in touch with KC and knew it was not KC, why was his testimony in the murder trial that he walked up to the car praying words to the effect of "please don't let this be my daughter or granddaughter"?

As for going into a "protective mode" until they could make sense of what was going on, destroying evidence by scrubbing the trunk and washing the clothes does not fall into the categorization of "protective mode" but rather the category of "coverup mode". It's hard for anyone to "get to the bottom of it" with the evidence destroyed.

As an ex detective, there's no way that was an ignorant little oopsie.

 

[MsMacGyver]

If my daughter was behaving like the felon the first thing I would have done is check out her employment. If she's stealing money, I want to know why. Why are the A's making such an issue out of grandparents rights? They could have went to LE and reported their daughter for stealing....Clearly they had enough time and could have collected enough evidence to prove the felon was stealing. They had an avenue available to them to get help. If they didn't use LE, why does anyone believe if there were laws in place to help grandparents, the A's would have used them either!
What issues are the A's referring to besides stealing that would cause them to want to take Caylee away from the felon. Clearly just stealing could have been addressed by the A's, what else was going on?...

 

[MsMacGyver]

GA had years to go to the detectives and tell them the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth. He didn't. He failed Caylee again. It's a little late now to tell his version of truth while FCA enjoys the freedom Caylee didn't live long enough to see. It's all about HIS reputation now because he was labeled a pedophile and their latest source of income, another charity.

Memories of GA on the stand and under oath, his arrogance is astounding:

George Anthony - Zenaida Gonzalez video deposition, April 9th 2009 (Casey Anthony) - Part 1 - YouTube

IMO

Same old GA...Notice him running his tongue around in his mouth..this shows alot of anxiety. When he draws one side of his mouth up...this is disgust. Can anyone see why the jurers thought GA was lying!

 

[MsMacGyver]

If he knew that CA had been in touch with KC and knew it was not KC, why was his testimony in the murder trial that he walked up to the car praying words to the effect of "please don't let this be my daughter or granddaughter"?
As for going into a "protective mode" until they could make sense of what was going on, destroying evidence by scrubbing the trunk and washing the clothes does not fall into the categorization of "protective mode" but rather the category of "coverup mode". It's hard for anyone to "get to the bottom of it" with the evidence destroyed.

As an ex detective, there's no way that was an ignorant little oopsie.

This statement tells a huge story to me...CA even said in Dr. P interview she wasn't concerned during the 31 days because.." I'm going on those 31 days of knowing that KC took excellent care of Caylee, that she was a good mother, I never had any reason to doubt her relationship with Caylee"
If this were true why did GA's mind go there?...Ga & CA were living in the same house then, I'm sure CA was talking to GA about what was going on. Why did GA assume that whatever was in that trunk smelling had anything to do with the felon or his grandaughter. Why didn't his mind say well maybe the car was stolen and the felon didn't want to tell anyone. Maybe whomever is in that trunk has nothing to do with us?
GA assumed that the car was out of gas because that was the felons MO. They both knew that car had been there for a couple weeks. CA had been talking to the felon everyday! Why did GA's mind go directly to that thought?

 

[MarthaM]

This statement tells a huge story to me...CA even said in Dr. P interview she wasn't concerned during the 31 days because.." I'm going on those 31 days of knowing that KC took excellent care of Caylee, that she was a good mother, I never had any reason to doubt her relationship with Caylee"
If this were true why did GA's mind go there?...Ga & CA were living in the same house then, I'm sure CA was talking to GA about what was going on. Why did GA assume that whatever was in that trunk smelling had anything to do with the felon or his grandaughter. Why didn't his mind say well maybe the car was stolen and the felon didn't want to tell anyone. Maybe whomever is in that trunk has nothing to do with us?
GA assumed that the car was out of gas because that was the felons MO. They both knew that car had been there for a couple weeks. CA had been talking to the felon everyday! Why did GA's mind go directly to that thought?

Because his granddaughter was missing. I think that if anybody had a missing family member and walked up to a car or anything else connected to the family that smelled of death, the thought would immediately come to mind.

 

[Searchfortruth]

If he knew that CA had been in touch with KC and knew it was not KC, why was his testimony in the murder trial that he walked up to the car praying words to the effect of "please don't let this be my daughter or granddaughter"?

As for going into a "protective mode" until they could make sense of what was going on, destroying evidence by scrubbing the trunk and washing the clothes does not fall into the categorization of "protective mode" but rather the category of "coverup mode". It's hard for anyone to "get to the bottom of it" with the evidence destroyed.

As an ex detective, there's no way that was an ignorant little oopsie.

I would be willing to guess that what George actually said was, please don't let this be my Granddaughter, but later changed it to daughter or G-daughter (to stay with the family line).

IMO, If Cindy had no idea where that dead body smell was coming from and who was behind it, she would have never cleaned it up. Caylee could have been killed by a stranger, at that point, and only someone who knew that was not the case would clean a trunk that smelled "like a dead body".

 

[fla-pa]

I keep forgetting to bring this up.
Remember when G was talking about how he had been investigated or whatever and went through everything even a voice anylisis? Well. NONE of the Anthony's took a lie detector test.

I always thought the reason they all refused the lie detector test was that they all back-pedalled on the story about the fight Cindy and Casey had the night before Casey left with Caylee. It was one of the many things that made people suspect that at least one of the Anthony's was in this with Casey. It's hard to fathom innocent people waging a campaign of disinformation they way George and Cindy did.