Dr. Phil's Interview w/ George & Cindy Anthony - Thread #3

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, GA has to take responsibility for some of this. I sympathize with him, don't get me wrong, but he's a grown man. He can stand up for himself and Caylee any time. C'mon GA!

And I do believe he is beginning to do just that. I saw it in the trial and I saw it again in the DP interviews and ,yes, that is what he needs to keep doing whether Cindy wants to hear it or not. I am sure he has to listen to Cindy drone on and on about her ridiculous excuses.

Yes, he is a grown man.......just like a grown woman who takes abuse and never stand up for themselves. I think dominating personalities such as Cindy's looks for someone who will not say anything back just like men look for more docile type of women.

He has been married to her so long now this is the only way he knows how to survive and IMO, he does love Cindy, although its undeserved. But by now he has become addicted to her as if she is a bad drug.

He needs a support group and he certainly is never going to get support from Cindy.

If he stays he has got to learn to stand up to Cindy and if he can do that he will grow stronger each and everyday. A lot of time when the bully realizes a person isn't going to take it anymore they back way off and respect the person more.

I truly believe that George has been emotionally abused and physically too even grabbed by the throat at times or slapped.

I look at him no differently than I do any other person who has been abused and I have unfortunately known men and women who have suffered such abuses for many years.

IMO

 

[fifteen89]

According to many polls online...the most damning evidence to many was the "31" days. The DT had to get rid of this so thats why they made up the drowning lie. It worked with this jury. They didn't have the "appalling" factor like all of us and the prosecution did.

What I will never understand is how, even if the jurors accepted the theory that Caylee drowned on June 16th -- how the 31 days wasn't still a huge part of the evidence. That's not the behavior one would expect for the next 31 days from the mother of a child who accidentally drowned today.

 

[Schu7]

In the first reporting period here of the THE CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY FOUNDATION, I think one should note what is not included. No T-shirt money. No jar money. Etc.......... IMO the whole "foundations" are smoke and mirrors all the way. I sure wish the tax man would look into this obvious rip off!

http://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/caylee-daily-report-george-and-cindy-get-up-to-80-of-money-from-interview/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well I have to tell you there were many WSer's who were crazed on here trying to figure out where KC put Caylee and I was one of them. Our own members that were down there at the time searched everywhere they thought KC might have left Caylee. No one, no one would think she was right down the street. Who would do that??? Someone very lazy or someone who just did not care. KC qualifies for both. The officer in August dropped the ball and he paid the ultimate price by losing his job. But with all the tips they were receiving I think they did the best they could. jmo

I wish you all had known this.


What I did find interesting is that in the cases studied, almost all of the mothers disposed of their children in a “womb like” fashion. They either swaddled them, put them in water- submerged or wrapped them tightly in plastic. The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children stated that most children killed by their mothers were always found close to home , while a child killed by the father is generally found hundreds of miles away.

http://halfpint42592.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/why-do-women-kill-their-own-children/

 

[rotterdam]

In the first reporting period here of the THE CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY FOUNDATION, I think one should note what is not included. No T-shirt money. No jar money. Etc.......... IMO the whole "foundations" are smoke and mirrors all the way. I sure wish the tax man would look into this obvious rip off!

http://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/caylee-daily-report-george-and-cindy-get-up-to-80-of-money-from-interview/

Plenty of donations must have been in cash and were funneled thru the two command centers and snail mail. Hard to track cash ,even for the taxman.
I suspect that after Caylee was found , donations dwindled downwards.
That said, it is reasonable to expect that many donations were not reported. Therefor that 80% figure for "expenses" is probably a gross understatement. If all the incoming money would have been reported, it could have been a lot higher like 99.5 % for expenses instead of 80%.

The latest foundation, I suspect was set up for things like Dr Phil and other future paid appearances and/or royalties etc and not necessary for private donations. It would make perfect income tax sense. The Anthonys probably learned fast from previous media windfalls and the income tax they ended up paying.

 

[RR0004]

I wish you all had known this.


What I did find interesting is that in the cases studied, almost all of the mothers disposed of their children in a “womb like” fashion. They either swaddled them, put them in water- submerged or wrapped them tightly in plastic. The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children stated that most children killed by their mothers were always found close to home , while a child killed by the father is generally found hundreds of miles away.

http://halfpint42592.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/why-do-women-kill-their-own-children/

We did know.
The ping records are a work of brilliance IMHO.
Hindsight and all that.

 

[Hope4More]

Caylee won't be forgotten.

She had/has the prayers of millions. The circumstances of her death have caused many thousands of people to examine more closely their own families and, if nothing else, to hug their own children more tightly. That so many cared and care can't bring Caylee back, but that caring also says her brief life had great meaning.

Casey will or will not be personally haunted by what she has done, and nothing anyone here says or does not say will change that one iota. Personally, I believe that justice of the most primitive kind will catch up with Casey sooner rather than later, but maybe not, and there is nothing any one of us can do about what justice she will have to face, here or after death.

Cindy and George have proven, again and again, that thinking about them or trying to figure them out, or even wishing them the best or worst, is all a colossal waste of time. They are the kind of folks that you would have given up on if they were in your own real life, after trying many times to help.

IMO, the riddles this case has posed are unanswerable. Casey killed her daughter. Only she will ever know exactly why, and when and how. Let her have that knowledge all to herself. There are so many other babies and children still alive and in danger to be aware of and to try to help.

IMO, it's time to help those who are alive, and to let Casey Marie Anthony sink deep deep down into the lonely oblivion she has brought upon herself and so richly deserves.

Rest in peace Caylee, and bless those here who have cared so much.

 

[MissJames]

Well I have to tell you there were many WSer's who were crazed on here trying to figure out where KC put Caylee and I was one of them. Our own members that were down there at the time searched everywhere they thought KC might have left Caylee. No one, no one would think she was right down the street. Who would do that??? Someone very lazy or someone who just did not care. KC qualifies for both. The officer in August dropped the ball and he paid the ultimate price by losing his job. But with all the tips they were receiving I think they did the best they could. jmo

True dat. Casey had 31 days to hide Caylee,move her if she wanted to,throw her into a pond with alligators or in a dumpster anywhere around Orlando. Her phone pings were all over the place. It was obvious Caylee was in the trunk at some point,so the most logical explanation ,IMO,is that she took Caylee somewhere that would be difficult to find, not just around the corner from home.

 

[krkrjx]

Well, GA has to take responsibility for some of this. I sympathize with him, don't get me wrong, but he's a grown man. He can stand up for himself and Caylee any time. C'mon GA!

Well, George is standing up for himself and Caylee to some degree now. And remember, he was not doing this before...he was going along with Cindy and her antics for the most part so as not to rock the boat.

George has, IMO, become stronger. He is speaking for himself these days, not yet to the point of challenging Cindy when she feels the need to "explain" why George feels as he does. So, while George still has a ways to go in this regard, I hope he will continue to get stronger. I am waiting for the day when he does not sit quietly while Cindy tries to redirect his statements to fit what she wants people to believe.

 

[wallflower67]

I wish you all had known this.


What I did find interesting is that in the cases studied, almost all of the mothers disposed of their children in a “womb like” fashion. They either swaddled them, put them in water- submerged or wrapped them tightly in plastic. The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children stated that most children killed by their mothers were always found close to home , while a child killed by the father is generally found hundreds of miles away.

http://halfpint42592.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/why-do-women-kill-their-own-children/

I find it interesting that this may be the only maternal instinct FICA had.

 

[octobermoon]

Well, George is standing up for himself and Caylee to some degree now. And remember, he was not doing this before...he was going along with Cindy and her antics for the most part so as not to rock the boat.

George has, IMO, become stronger. He is speaking for himself these days, not yet to the point of challenging Cindy when she feels the need to "explain" why George feels as he does. So, while George still has a ways to go in this regard, I hope he will continue to get stronger. I am waiting for the day when he does not sit quietly while Cindy tries to redirect his statements to fit what she wants people to believe.

The part of your post I bolded above explains so much about this family. CA needs her family to feel, act, behave according to her needs, wants, desires. For the world to see that they all are just perfect became a deadly ????
I can't put my finger on it. I just know that is a world I don't want to be in.

 

[MsMacGyver]

What I will never understand is how, even if the jurors accepted the theory that Caylee drowned on June 16th -- how the 31 days wasn't still a huge part of the evidence. That's not the behavior one would expect for the next 31 days from the mother of a child who accidentally drowned today.

Your post is exactly why the 31 days was such a critical part of the evidence which went right over the jurors heads. A mother whos child accidently drown would NOT behave like FCA did for 31 days. A mother who just drown her child WOULD act like this for 31 days. FCA knew her time was limited, she knew that sooner or later CA would catch up with her and the jig would be up. So she figured she might as well live like there was no tomorrow. FCA thought she would eventually wind up in prison so she made those 31 days count. What she didn't count on was finding JB. He cleaned up her mess just like mom did and used GA & LA to do it. What she didn't count on was 12 people that didn't understand their job description.

 

[MsMacGyver]

George said he did not want to see her get the death penalty, I think Baez was getting him to say he would do anything to spare her and as usual, George doesn't help his case in being clearly understood.

I did get the feeling he felt put on the spot by Baez at that point with that line of questioning. Baez made it seem so cryptic. You could really see his dislike and anger towards that question (accusation?), his daughter and Baez even then. :twocents:

JB played GA on the stand. JB knew what buttons to push and he made just enough inflammatory comments towards GA to get him to bite. GA fought the wrong battle on the stand, instead of being straightforward and fighting for Caylee he got wound up in a personal grudge against JB. GA thought he was being smart but instead he was making himself look deceitful.

 

[marge_rita]

Yep, Logicgal. IMO, it all comes down to them not understanding "reasonable doubt" which was my biggest fear.

I have seen this group think before. They think if they possess any doubt at all, no matter how bizarre they can't vote guilty. You are correct...they were not sophisticated at all. They went with the thinking of "Beyond the Shadow of a Doubt" which was suggested subliminally by the defense in their explanations of the term.

When are people going to learn the difference? The State assumed that they got it...because it is a pretty easy term for them and they can think in the abstract. The jury couldn't.

I suggest a test be given to jurors to see if they understand the term. This case was clearly sad and an unjust and incomprehensible verdict was given. It made them appear well I better leave it at unsophisticated or be banned. People who are not capable of thinking in the abstract (concrete thinkers) do not get this term and are too shamed to admit they don't.

I so agree. It should be mandatory for jurors to take a test when they're selected for trial. It is of the utmost importance.


kc's trial is solid proof of what happens when a jury misunderstands.
Judge Perry should have called a mistrial. The jurors for this trial were a disgrace to the court system.

imo

 

[MsMacGyver]

Continued from thread #2...Post1706...Page 68...Interview #3

Dr. P..When was the first time you heard the allegation that she supposely was making that you had molested her?

GA...In a letter that was released that she was having a correspondance with another inmate and this inmate was talking about her life and how she probably could have been molested and KC agreed and she said well maybe somethin happened with my brother and or my dad, I just don't remember and I saw that I was hurt, I was hurt deeply to think my daughter could even concocted something like that and I said you know somethin their coming after me now and sayin that I did somethin wrong ,I'm the one thats bein looked at in the wrong direction.

Dr. P..Ya know legal analysts have called this the social media trial and that perhaps the defense monitered facebook and twitters and determined that there were people out there that didn't like you and there fore you became a good target. Do you believe that any of that contributed to you being selected as a fall guy here or someone to point the finger at?

GA...Oh, absolutely I do. I believe everything they did they were pointing stuff at me , making me be the one thats gonna help get my daughter aquitted of charges against her of first degree murder, of aggravated child abuse or felony murder, whatever it was going to be , Ya, I was the one that was targeted because they had to cause reasonable doubt and they did. They did their job.

Dr. P...Did you know when you walked in there that they were going to lead with this molestation theory as to why she lied.

GA...In that particular time that CA had met with Jose Baez at our attorneys office ya, that was the speculation but for him to say that specific opening statement that he said, OH NO, that was an extreme low blow.
They play JB OS..KC..8 years old..going to school like nothing happened..blah..blah
GA upset during next comments, finding it difficult to spit words out.

GA...The hurt.... the anger inside of me.... even right now to hear that st-...again that hurts, to think that could be concocted and that could be an opening statement and the judges ruling was we could be in court , we could not have any kind of reaction what so ever and to sit there and look straight ahead or look down for a moment and just hold your composer, that was very hard for me to do. I wanted to go and jump over this little railing that we had and.. and.. I wanted to confront Mr. Baez on what he said. I didn't care for him from day one. I..I just had that bad feeling but when he said that , I thought you know pal, you've already destroyed me, your just tryin to destroy me some more. But ya know somethin, I stood up in front of him and I told him your not takin away my joy no more.

They play video of GA on stand saying this to JB

Dr. P..GA, did you ever touch your daughter inappropiately?

GA...No sir, I did not.

Dr.P...Did you ever sexually molest her at any age, in any way, at any time?

GA..No sir, I did not...did not. I couldn't do that, would not do that.

Dr. P...DP looks at CA...Do you believe that?

CA...Absolutely

Dr. P...So, do you believe that this defense theory was not truthful?

CA...Absolutely. I know it's not truthful.

Dr.P...So if that defense theory contributed to this aquittal on those 3 charges , then those aquittals, in your opinion, are based on misinformation given to the jury.

CA...No...because...I don't think the jury based their decision on that statement. I think they based their decision on lack of evidence that the state was unable to prove. If I was sitting on that jury, I've would have done the same thing that the jury did because they did not prove, the state did not prove their case.

Dr. P...Alright, but let me ask you something in you said you absolutely do not believe what they said about GA, so I want to be very clear here because you were in this home, you were there in the mornings, you were there during the day, you were there at night. Do you know to the absolute core of your heart that this man never molested your daughter.

CA...Absolutely, because if I knew that, he would not be sitting here today because I would have either killed him myself or had him arrested and I would have moved him away.

Dr. P...You never saw anything?

CA...Absolutely not

Dr. P...No warning signs ever goin off in your head...no maternal instinct ever triggered?

CA...Absolutely not

Dr. P...Cause I'm of the opinion you can be kind of a polyanna sometimes, I've said that to ya, I know cause you try to not see ugly things but this is something you wouldn't turn a deaf ear to?

CA...Absolutely not and he knows that, if he would have ever laid a finger on any of the kids or myself he would have been gone.

Dr. P... Were you ever bathing her or dressing her or around her and see any physical evidence of touching or inappropriateness or the result of inappropriateness at all, did you see any indication what so ever?

Ca...No...No...No...and I feel that during the time of our separation if there was anything of that , that that was KC's time to tell me because it was us and she could have used that to keep her dad away, I mean if she would have said something like that I would have never reconciled with him. That would have been a deal breaker for me.
Dr. P...She was lookin for ammunition?

CA...Absolutely

Dr. P...She wanted him out

CA...Absolutely and if there was, she could have given it to me then and she left Caylee alone with him alot. GA babysat quite a bit while KC and I would do stuff soGA...Yup, which I enjoyed so much

CA..Oh yes

GA...enjoyed that time with her

CA...So for her to put her daughter in that position, I don't believe it for a minute

Dr. P...Did they confide in you at any time before the trial that they were going to accuse him of molesting her?

CA...Um, the states attorneys office did. We found out within a week after I found out that Caylee had drown, we knew they were going to point the finger at GA somehow and they were going to go on that molestation theory.

Dr. P...Once you heard this did you ever ask GA if it was true?

CA...No, I never had to

Dr. P...Did you want her to take the stand?

GA...It would have been interesting but I think she would have been mentally destroyed by the prosecution. I think they would have really grilled her like probably

Dr. P...Did you want her to be cross examined?

GA...It would have been very interesting to have her answer some of the things of the particular day of June 16th, her explanation on what happened on that particular day, what time all this stuff happened, who was all there, what was said, what was done, but she never had the opportunity to say that.

Dr. P...So that was one major prong of their defense, this is why she kept the secret, why

GA...Right

Dr. P...she had learned and had the pattern of keeping the secret. They dropped another bombshell in there about the pool and all that which ya all knew was coming.

GA...Right

Dr. P...Lets take a look at that

They show video clip of JB OS...GA saying to KC..wheres Caylee..wheres Caylee

Dr. P...What was your reaction when you heard that articulated in detail down, that you were there, you were yelling , you were screaming, you were threathening and you were cowersing her?

GA... I wanted to jump up and just say listen, I had nothing to do with this but you can't, you've gotta let him do his job. Did it bother me, it still bothers me even to hear even again today. I know it didn't happen the way their talkin about it happening. How could I have pulled my grandaughter out of a pool, hold her there, give her off to KC and then go off to work that day? It makes no sense to me. I'd be the one to call 911, try to resuscitate my grandaughtrer, why wouldn't I done the right thing. I've been trained to do that.

Dr. P...As a police officer, would you know that an accidental drowning would not wind up with somebody spending the rest of their life in jail?

GA...Oh, absolutely they wouldn't, I mean it's an, thats an accident, it's stuff that happens.

I thought when CA was talking about meeting JB alone because FCA wanted her to know how Caylee died, she was vague on where they actually met. From my bold at top of page it seems CA met JB at her attorneys office. I guess maybe she wasn't alone at the meeting. Seems like they talked about more than just Caylee. GA says there was speculation on JB's OS.


CA agrees that FCA was looking for ammunition to keep GA from coming home. Seems like not much love lost between them way back then. GA & CA separated in Nov 2005 to June 2006.
I wish CA would make her mind up. First she says if FCA had made allegations back then, CA would not have reconciled with GA.
Then later CA says she never asked GA if these allegations were true, says she didn't have to ask him, she knew they weren't true.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Continued from page 9..Post # 223

CA...It didn't make sense because if I would have been a juror listening, I wouldn't have bought that part of that because I would have felt both parties would have been responsible for the drowning because if GA was home and KC was home and the child was found in the pool that both of them would have been negligent.

Dr.P...Just as you are absolutely drop dead certain that there was no molestation on GA's part, are you as certain that he was not there, if and when the drowning took place?

CA...Absolutely because I saw GA's emotions when he found out that Caylee was missing that night. I saw GA's determination for 6 months to find Caylee, I saw a man being destroyed little by little, he was dying inside. If he would have had any knowledge of that, things would have been totally different. We would have known on the 16th what happened to Caylee.

Dr. P...So, was this jury dupped by this theory?

CA...I don't think they bought the whole theory but the fact that Caylee could have drowned, there was more possibility and more evidence there than there was she was murdered.

Dr. P..But why implicate GA?

CA...Because he was running out of people to blame besides KC. I mean I think his intention was to put it on somebody. Jose's job and he said from day one that he was going to do everything he could to get KC off, that she did not deserve to be there, she did not hurt her daughter, he didn't care who's toes he was going to step on, he didn't care who he was going to hurt along the way. GA became his fall guy and I was angry at Mr. Baez for that and I still to this day believe that they did not need to involve GA in that scenario. It would have been the same verdict.

Dr. P...It's interesting to me that you say two major problems of the defense was that you molested her and therefore taught her that you keep secrets and you live a secret life and that you were there and instructed her as an authority figure, that had power and control over her to hide this and cover this up. That was misinformation to the jury..correct?

CA...Absolutely

Dr.P...But you just think thats not the reason they aquitted her on the 3 charges because you think they saw through this.

CA...I believe from what some of the jurors have come forward to, that there was not enough evidence to convict KC on murder. The state did not prove their burden and had they put in a different charge other than the 3 charges they did I think KC probably would have been found guilty of something other than the lying to police.

GA...When the first one came through, they found her not guilty of first degree murder I remember I started to shake, I got this deepness in my heart. I thought OK, but she's actually gonna be in jail for awhile to pay for Caylees death. Then the 2nd charge came through not guilty. I'm thinkin OK, then when the 3rd one came through for aggravated child abuse...nothing. I thought , Oh my gosh, my daughters gonna walk out of here and I'm never gonna know about Caylee. I felt she needs to have something to be held accountable for. If that meant bein in jail...that meant bein in jail.

Dr. P...You wanted them to find something against her.

GA...I did, thats bein truthful, thats bein honest

Dr. P...So as you sat there in the courtroom you wanted to hear a guilty to one of those first three?

GA...I did. I didn't want to see my daughter be put to death, but I wanted her to be held responsible for my grandaughter. I did and I still do.

Dr. P...What was your reaction, you wanted to hear...

CA...I was praying for all 3 not guilty and I was elated when all 3 of them came back not guilty

Dr. P...What do you think about him saying honestly that he wanted her to be found guilty of something, not death penalty but to be held accountable for this?

CA... I think he felt betrayed by KC and definately by her defense team, he wanted some type of retrobution for what she put him through for those 3 years and then what she put him through for the trial. I think GA is so hurt by the fact they did this to him that he wanted to see her pay.

Dr. P..Was it retrobution or was it accountability for Caylee?

GA...I wanted accountable for Caylee. She was always my focus from day one, to find out what happened to her and I wanted someone to be held accountable for that and I'm holding KC responsible for that.
Dr. P...You were disappointed in the verdict( meaning GA)...you were relieved by the verdict..(CA)

CA...Absolutely

Dr. P...So ya all see that very differently

CA..ah ha

Dr. P...Do you respect his right to see it that way

CA...Absolutely, and I

Dr. P...Do you respect her right to see it her way

GA...Right and I even said you know now that KC is out, if she could have a relationship with her mom and her brother, that's fine. I have no problem with that. I don't think the relationship between KC and I will be anymore than what it is right now. We're gonna have a very strained relationship. I love my daughter but I don't like what the last 3 years has done to us.

I wonder how CA can be so disrespectful to GA claiming his feelings are just sour grapes.

 

[21merc7]

I wonder how CA can be so disrespectful to GA claiming his feelings are just sour grapes.

Well, because she does not see his feelings, nor think they are of any importance. It is all about her, in her world. Everyone else is just fodder for more abuse.

GA has grown so accustomed to it he does not see the toll it has taken on him, he thinks he blocks it out, but no, it is still working subconsciously.

The cycles of abuse can go on for many generations if no one ever wakes up and makes a lifelong effort to stop their own patterns. This family is just one example of millions, and believe it or not, it is even worse for many.

 

[BellaVita]

[/B]

IMO they're both lying and are acting for the tv cameras. These two will come to major blows over kc. kc wants her father out of the picture. She can't manipulate him like she can her mother and brother.

Cindy keeps GA around. He is a trophy husband, goog housekeeper, driver, car repairman, he does exactly what she says and she can control him. There is nothing there for him to keep hanging in there with cindy except for the legal and financial assets and at this point that is getting more complex.

I maintain cindy needs george more than george needs cindy. She is a major co-dependent and in secret, most likely, adores him and acts like a little girl around him. She may cater to his every whim. I've seen this type before.

I think that living in the Anthony house must be quite tense. I guess it makes me feel a little better, knowing from experience, that a comfortable financial situation doesn't lessen emotional torture. Though I think that CA is probably way less bothered than GA. I think GA is building up alot of pressure inside and it will explode someday. If I was CA, I wouldn't want that gun in the house. I would not be surprised to wake up one day and see Hopespring Drive filled with police investigating a crime scene.

 

[BellaVita]

Again I wish I could agree that it is that black and white - but I've said all along - I just don't think the Anthony's - particularly CA was a player at all in the case. No one believed her claims on the stand - it was obvious she was trying to save her daughter from the death penalty.

The LE simply got a sample of hair from another brush - we claim she cleaned the car yet a CSI for the SA testified it was not clean, we hoped the pants had that very clue that would have solved the case but I think not. And so it went through the list of the Anthony's "obstructions". Merely an annoying sideshow, but a non-event for the LE and the SA - and a sideshow for the media.
Bill S. who was a criminal lawyer for 30 years said he had never before seen a case with so much circumstantial evidence. What I think went wrong was a very sophisticated prosecution with highly technical evidence and a very unsophisticated jury who have never been called on to engage their common sense and were so unfocused they never did understand what their jury instructions were. And a DT who had figured out just how unsophisticated these folks were. Because more than enough evidence was there.

Responding to bolded: Respectfully disagreeing. I think there was plenty the A's didn't tell LE about that would have supplied much more motive than what was able to be presented at trial. And I think the jury did believe CA more than the SA. IMO they believed she made that phone call to GA about the pool ladder even though there is no record of it occurring. And most of all, to me, I do not care whether the A's obstructions were material or immaterial to the outcome of the trial. If you feel that their obstructions were ineffective that still does not erase their intent to hinder prosecution.

 

[BellaVita]

Yep, Logicgal. IMO, it all comes down to them not understanding "reasonable doubt" which was my biggest fear.

I have seen this group think before. They think if they possess any doubt at all, no matter how bizarre they can't vote guilty. You are correct...they were not sophisticated at all. They went with the thinking of "Beyond the Shadow of a Doubt" which was suggested subliminally by the defense in their explanations of the term.

When are people going to learn the difference? The State assumed that they got it...because it is a pretty easy term for them and they can think in the abstract. The jury couldn't.

I suggest a test be given to jurors to see if they understand the term. This case was clearly sad and an unjust and incomprehensible verdict was given. It made them appear well I better leave it at unsophisticated or be banned. People who are not capable of thinking in the abstract (concrete thinkers) do not get this term and are too shamed to admit they don't.

You know what was scarey? Late morning/early afternoon on verdict day. Amy Singer, the jury consultant, was being interviewed live on one of the local stations or HLN. She told the interviewer straight out that Casey would be acquitted on all major changes. It was not false bravado or hopeful thinking. SHE KNEW. When asked how she knew this her reply was: I know the jury we've got. It was chilling when I heard that.