EB jail pics comparison

[grayjay]

They look to me to be from the same day if not in the same room. The major differences are her expression and the camera settings used.

The smirk photo is sharper and not enhanced. The brighter blue background in the other one is very likely enhanced, noise reduced and color corrected. I can see artifact edges along her shoulders on both sides and along the hair. There are no catch lights in her eyes, and jmo that would indicate room lighting vs a flash used.

Her face is so much longer in the second one, as she has recognized the gravity of her situation her face shows it. Just proves how our expression can make us look even older and more tired. Smile!

 

[ynotdivein]

In terms of treatment many of the treatment providers in the western NC area typically use the matrix model for most substance abuse problems. This model was created more specifically for stimulant users such as meth addiction. However this model can be used for a variety of addictions.

Many with opiate addiction are prescribed methadone from clinics to help them deal with the pain and other side effects of coming off opiates like Oxy's for example. However I'm kind of a fence sitter when it comes to methadone treatment of which I wont get into here as that would lead me into a very long winded post.

edit: adding some links to info on the matrix model.

http://archives.drugabuse.gov/btdp/Effective/Rawson.htm

http://www.bhrm.org/guidelines/The_Matrix_Model_Of_Intensive_Outpatient_Treatment.pdf

marspiter, thank you for the good information on testing/detection of methamphetamine v. Oxy use.

In my economically depressed area, we have high rates of prescription drug abuse, high enrollment at our methadone clinics, and high rates of methamphetamine use. This conversation is reminding me of how little benefit can come from trying to identify "which drug wrecked this person" via a few pictures. "Faces of Meth" is a very interesting website but doubtless one could also create a "Faces of Oxy" site, or a "Faces of Booze" site for that matter...

I totally see that EB went through a dramatic weight loss between her marriage to AB photos and her recent mug shots. Am just not sure how much further I can go with speculating about which drug or drugs may have caused the change, if that makes sense? Until we get further information to support one supposition or another, that is.

 

[Cazzie]

marspiter, thank you for the good information on testing/detection of methamphetamine v. Oxy use.

In my economically depressed area, we have high rates of prescription drug abuse, high enrollment at our methadone clinics, and high rates of methamphetamine use. This conversation is reminding me of how little benefit can come from trying to identify "which drug wrecked this person" via a few pictures. "Faces of Meth" is a very interesting website but doubtless one could also create a "Faces of Oxy" site, or a "Faces of Booze" site for that matter...

I totally see that EB went through a dramatic weight loss between her marriage to AB photos and her recent mug shots. Am just not sure how much further I can go with speculating about which drug or drugs may have caused the change, if that makes sense? Until we get further information to support one supposition or another, that is.

I don't have a link, but I've seen it posted that EB at some point had gastric surgery (probably at the taxpayers' expense, not sure).

But yeah, drug abuse (prescription or street) doesn't help one's inner or outer beauty, IMO.

 

[rbrnmw2]

July 6 is Cancer, not Leo.

Anyway, that lion isn't very goth. Just sayin'.

June 6 she is a Gemini

 

[ynotdivein]

I don't have a link, but I've seen it posted that EB at some point had gastric surgery (probably at the taxpayers' expense, not sure).

But yeah, drug abuse (prescription or street) doesn't help one's inner or outer beauty, IMO.

Hi Caz! I have seen the same rumor about gastric bypass but as yet have not seen it verified here and can't find it on say HinkyMeter to link to. If a WSer has a reputable link to that information, I am glad to entertain the notion!

(Slightly OT, but in terms of GB surgery at taxpayer's expense, well, suffice to say if that were an option, several folks close to me would have had it years ago... but AFAIK it's an elective procedure that health insurance and welfare do not cover.)

 

[Cazzie]

Hi Caz! I have seen the same rumor about gastric bypass but as yet have not seen it verified here and can't find it on say HinkyMeter to link to. If a WSer has a reputable link to that information, I am glad to entertain the notion!

(Slightly OT, but in terms of GB surgery at taxpayer's expense, well, suffice to say if that were an option, several folks close to me would have had it years ago... but AFAIK it's an elective procedure that health insurance and welfare do not cover.)

Hey!

I'll try a search for the source; it came up in discussions of some of her photos taken before and at/after her wedding to AB. It could have been on hinkymeter, though. I don't post there, and had to stop reading there because the blog comment format wasn't working for me.

Even if she did have GS, that doesn't mean that she didn't also allegedly do drugs.

People have discussed her withdrawing from drugs/alcohol in jail, but I've read quite a bit over the years about how easy it is to get both in jail/prison. And generally speaking, most people who give up drugs/alcohol look massively better and even younger in the after pix. KWIM? So maybe it's "just stress" and sleep dep.

 

[marspiter]

marspiter, thank you for the good information on testing/detection of methamphetamine v. Oxy use.

In my economically depressed area, we have high rates of prescription drug abuse, high enrollment at our methadone clinics, and high rates of methamphetamine use. This conversation is reminding me of how little benefit can come from trying to identify "which drug wrecked this person" via a few pictures. "Faces of Meth" is a very interesting website but doubtless one could also create a "Faces of Oxy" site, or a "Faces of Booze" site for that matter...

I totally see that EB went through a dramatic weight loss between her marriage to AB photos and her recent mug shots. Am just not sure how much further I can go with speculating about which drug or drugs may have caused the change, if that makes sense? Until we get further information to support one supposition or another, that is.

Oh yes I completely agree one or two photos isn't going to be enough to identify drug abuse or what type of drug that individual abused. As I said it's a likely possibility (based on my knowledge of the area) but there could be others. She isn't going to be given a SASSI-3 or TASC assessment while she is being held and given that her charges are not drug related I seriously doubt she would ever receive one unless she herself indicated a drug problem or her lawyer was going to use drug usage as some kind of defense then they may seek out some kind of assessment for her defense.

It is speculation but if it did turn out that she used meth it wouldn't exactly surprise me. For opiate use many of the ones I have seen tend to be bloated do to water retention and gain weight while using opiates. Now some do lose weight because eating kills the high so they don't eat when taking opiates but normally the sugar craving causes opiate addicts to gain weight cause they binge after the high has "kicked". Also opiates cause one to become lethargic unlike amphetamine which causes one to become manic.

All that being said there are many variables when it comes to addiction and not everyone is a "standard" case. Keep in mind this is my layman's opinion. I am not a certified counselor or addiction specialist. I do work with individuals with substance abuse issues but I have a more administrative role (ie budgets and paper work).

(Also I am not verified by WS so like all things on the web take my opinion as you would anything else on the net.)

 

[free2ride]

Well it depends on the test. For standard urine panel tests it's about 2 to 4 days for opiates and 3 to 5 days for meth. In my experience 3 days is pretty standard. Oral tests can yield positives a bit farther out then urine screens but I'm not familiar with them as the only one I've used is the oral alcohol one. Hair test is good for about 3 months for detection.

Links to redwood toxicology. This company produces the tests that the state of NC uses for its probation and parole department.

http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com/resources/drug_info/amphetamines.html

http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com/resources/drug_info/opiates.html

It may be that they did that as well when searching for DNA in the house before biomom came on the scene.

I'm sure they took different hair sources and DNA tested them. If the LE was smart they would also do a drug detection test on all of them. In my opinion...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Oh yes I completely agree one or two photos isn't going to be enough to identify drug abuse or what type of drug that individual abused. As I said it's a likely possibility (based on my knowledge of the area) but there could be others. She isn't going to be given a SASSI-3 or TASC assessment while she is being held and given that her charges are not drug related I seriously doubt she would ever receive one unless she herself indicated a drug problem or her lawyer was going to use drug usage as some kind of defense then they may seek out some kind of assessment for her defense.

It is speculation but if it did turn out that she used meth it wouldn't exactly surprise me. For opiate use many of the ones I have seen tend to be bloated do to water retention and gain weight while using opiates. Now some do lose weight because eating kills the high so they don't eat when taking opiates but normally the sugar craving causes opiate addicts to gain weight cause they binge after the high has "kicked". Also opiates cause one to become lethargic unlike amphetamine which causes one to become manic.

All that being said there are many variables when it comes to addiction and not everyone is a "standard" case. Keep in mind this is my layman's opinion. I am not a certified counselor or addiction specialist. I do work with individuals with substance abuse issues but I have a more administrative role (ie budgets and paper work).

(Also I am not verified by WS so like all things on the web take my opinion as you would anything else on the net.)

Also, many opiate addicts lose weight because the opiate makes them nauseous.

So yeah, ALOT of variables from addict to addict, imo.

 

[marspiter]

It may be that they did that as well when searching for DNA in the house before biomom came on the scene.

I'm sure they took different hair sources and DNA tested them. If the LE was smart they would also do a drug detection test on all of them. In my opinion...

I have no idea what their (LE) protocol is in terms of investigation of this crime. I don't see them using hair samples from EB to test for drugs though. I'm also not familiar with the hair sampling tests as I haven't seen one. My guess would be that the hair sample would be destroyed so you would need a sample just for the hair test for narcotics (the sample would be destroyed for DNA).

I just don't see investigators testing EB's hair for drugs as there are other easier and less costly tests. That and I personally don't see why LE would need that info. Just my :twocents: though.

Now if they found drugs at the home or something that lead LE to believe drugs played a part in Zahra's death that's altogether a different story.

 

[luckygirl]

Unfortunately I have some experience with meth users because my son is an addict. And in my opinion EB is a meth user.

She has that aged, yellow skin, black eye circles, eye bags sick look to her. My son looks the same one when he is using. I once sent him a picture of himself sober and healthy and after he was on meth a few months. He looked like the changes I see in EB.

It may also account for any rage expressed toward Zahra. My son also had paronoia and hallucinations on meth so those might have been possible in EB as well. But you can bet that they did a tox screen on her when they booked her.

When I first saw her I made the comment to my daughter that EB was a meth user. It could account for such a drastic weight loss too.

O/T
Thank you for sharing your personal experience about your son and meth.
I know 1st hand how hard it is to deal with an addicted child.
Tonight, when I say my prayers for my son, I'll include yours.

 

[simlyme]

Hi Caz! I have seen the same rumor about gastric bypass but as yet have not seen it verified here and can't find it on say HinkyMeter to link to. If a WSer has a reputable link to that information, I am glad to entertain the notion!

(Slightly OT, but in terms of GB surgery at taxpayer's expense, well, suffice to say if that were an option, several folks close to me would have had it years ago... but AFAIK it's an elective procedure that health insurance and welfare do not cover.)

GB was covered by medicaid until this year, I know someone who had it done through medicaid, it was difficult for someone to have the procedure, it had to be life threating, and one had to go through alot of pre op therapy before it was considered. I believe one of the reasons they dont approve it anymore is that most patients ended up gaining the weight back within a short time, I had a friend that happened to and the one that had it last year is on her way back up with the weight.
The one that had it done last year even had a large amount of skin removed at tax payers expense.
Any ways, I have said from the beginning that EB most likely used crystal meth, lost weight went crazy, evil, etc.. and killed Zahra with ABs help.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

Does anyone know what the comparative differences are between abuse of meth and abuse of Oxycontin or Oxycodone? Also how long Oxys would show up on a tox test?

I would say opiates promote sleep. Meth inhibits sleep.

 

[LCoastMom]

GB was covered by medicaid until this year, I know someone who had it done through medicaid, it was difficult for someone to have the procedure, it had to be life threating, and one had to go through alot of pre op therapy before it was considered. I believe one of the reasons they dont approve it anymore is that most patients ended up gaining the weight back within a short time, I had a friend that happened to and the one that had it last year is on her way back up with the weight.
The one that had it done last year even had a large amount of skin removed at tax payers expense.
Any ways, I have said from the beginning that EB most likely used crystal meth, lost weight went crazy, evil, etc.. and killed Zahra with ABs help.

I have a friend who had the GB surgery and skin removal, all paid for by the state of CA too - her doc really went to bat for her - probably 8 yrs ago - 5 years ago the weight started coming back on.

She never looked like EB - EB IMO looks like a meth user. (I have seen the posts at HM re EB having GB) - one of the posters there has friends who know A & EB - I believe that's where that idea came from.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Totally off topic, I know, but...what's with the lion? :floorlaugh:

There is something really creepy about EB in all of her pictures. It is almost like she houses some mischievous evil soul who manifests itself differently depending on mood. In my opinion, this is why she always looks different. I get a really eerie feeling looking at her pictures. In re-reading that, it sounds almost comical, but believe me I am not making light at all. It is very scary to see that woman's soul, or lack of.

On a side note, I have no idea how this picture was taken or under what circumstances, but I also find the lion a bit odd, but for different reasons. To me, it has the same "brightness" found in images of supernatural things. I know not everyone believes in this type of thing, but this is where my experience lies (not Mod verified), and this is just MOO.

 

[Cazzie]

There is something really creepy about EB in all of her pictures. It is almost like she houses some mischievous evil soul who manifests itself differently depending on mood. In my opinion, this is why she always looks different. I get a really eerie feeling looking at her pictures. In re-reading that, it sounds almost comical, but believe me I am not making light at all. It is very scary to see that woman's soul, or lack of.

On a side note, I have no idea how this picture was taken or under what circumstances, but I also find the lion a bit odd, but for different reasons. To me, it has the same "brightness" found in images of supernatural things. I know not everyone believes in this type of thing, but this is where my experience lies (not Mod verified), and this is just MOO.

A long time ago I had a discussion with an ex about how alcohol and drug abuse sometimes makes people lose all track of their moral core. He said that people are like windows, and the Devil, demons, Evil, whatever you want to call it opens the windows. ~~~ shiver ~~~

EB is a perfect example of that. Maybe different demons taking turns opening that window?

 

[sunflowerchick]

A long time ago I had a discussion with an ex about how alcohol and drug abuse sometimes makes people lose all track of their moral core. He said that people are like windows, and the Devil, demons, Evil, whatever you want to call it opens the windows. ~~~ shiver ~~~

EB is a perfect example of that. Maybe different demons taking turns opening that window?

I agree completely, and that is what it seems with EB. I do know that alcohol and drug use can open "gateways" to different aspects of humanity or the spiritual world. I think, to someone like EB that is part of the allure of using drugs or alcohol, because they can escape to a realm where they are more welcomed for their "dark sides". I believe it is also this that people "feel" when they say something about someone makes them uncomfortable. If more people would trust that instinct...

 

[Cazzie]

I agree completely, and that is what it seems with EB. I do know that alcohol and drug use can open "gateways" to different aspects of humanity or the spiritual world. I think, to someone like EB that is part of the allure of using drugs or alcohol, because they can escape to a realm where they are more welcomed for their "dark sides". I believe it is also this that people "feel" when they say something about someone makes them uncomfortable. If more people would trust that instinct...

BBM.

Thank you...that makes sense but somehow I never realized that.

 

[JoeFromLB]

There is something really creepy about EB in all of her pictures. It is almost like she houses some mischievous evil soul who manifests itself differently depending on mood. In my opinion, this is why she always looks different. I get a really eerie feeling looking at her pictures. In re-reading that, it sounds almost comical, but believe me I am not making light at all. It is very scary to see that woman's soul, or lack of.

On a side note, I have no idea how this picture was taken or under what circumstances, but I also find the lion a bit odd, but for different reasons. To me, it has the same "brightness" found in images of supernatural things. I know not everyone believes in this type of thing, but this is where my experience lies (not Mod verified), and this is just MOO.

Interesting thoughts. That struck me too, how different she looks in the various photos. It's uncanny.

The bright lion might just be a photographic artifact...the light from the flash, possibly. Eerie looking, nonetheless.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Interesting thoughts. That struck me too, how different she looks in the various photos. It's uncanny.

The bright lion might just be a photographic artifact...the light from the flash, possibly. Eerie looking, nonetheless.

Or I guess she could just be a Wild Kingdom fan.