Ebola outbreak - general thread #2

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From your link:

"Because the incubation period may last ten days while the infected victim may not even be aware of any illness, the virus is highly contagious."


I thought I had read that you were only contagious once you showed symptoms? Or did I read someone post that here and took it as true?

It is very confusing because different "experts" keep telling different theories. I really wonder if they truely know! I just read some people die in just a few days?

That statement is just plain inaccurate as the incubation period is not up to ten days and as Redux quite rightly points out, since people are not contagious during this period, it seems hard to see how this can be used as a reason for Ebola being highly contagious. I wonder whether the person who wrote the article from that link actually came from a medical or public health background - somehow I doubt it.

Ebola is highly contagious because it can be contracted just by touching the sweat/tears/bodily fluids of an infected person not because of the length of the incubation period.

The WHO has dealt with all of the Ebola outbreaks sine Ebola was first discovered in central Africa in the 70's.

The incubation period is 2-12 days before symptoms start to show. Current understanding is that people only become contagious once symptoms start to show.

This information has been posted numerous times on this thread so I am not sure why it would still be in doubt.

Once symptoms show, death can follow in a few days, but some people have posted highly exaggerated statements about people dying within two days of exposure - not true and not helpful.

I posted this, with supporting links in Part 1 of this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tbreak-general-thread&p=11046179#post11046179

This excerpt is from a WHO document on Ebola Virus Disease linked in my post above:

Heavy bleeding is rare and is usually confined to the gastrointestinal tract.[12][15] In general, the development of bleeding symptoms often indicates a worse prognosis and this blood loss can result in death.[9] All people infected show some signs of circulatory system involvement, including impaired blood clotting.[12] If the infected person does not recover, death due to multiple organ dysfunction syndrome occurs within 7 to 16 days (usually between days 8 and 9) after first symptoms.[14]
 
This actually may clear up some of the confusion re: whether or not Duncan KNEW the pregnant lady had Ebola or not. It's been said surely he had to have known but said she was miscarrying. Could it be that culture puts such a high value on life that regardless of her condition or illness, the PRIMARY concern of her and her family was to 'save the fetus' ? I have no idea and am just guessing. But that may be why the word miscarriage keeps coming up and not so much ebola. Her family may have known she had ebola or suspected but the concern is save the baby , no matter what is causing mom to be sick. The baby is first priority ? ** speculative ***

The family, with whom Duncan was their tenant and family friend-(from previous articles) told him and the taxi driver that Marthalene did NOT have Ebola, only a miscarriage, and the blood coming from her mouth was from having cut her tongue. Either these people are liars desperate to get her into a hospital or ignorant, and it cost them their lives.
 
This outbreak did not start 'many years' ago. It started last December and was not finally identified as an Ebola outbreak until 24th March 2014. I think Yoda's information will have been the same as what I am going to post.

Reliable information can be found using google and reputable sources of information like the World Health Organisation website.

As Harmony said people should be backing up statements of fact with links.

This is from a UK government website and shows part of the timeline up until July

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ebola-cases-in-west-africa-continue-to-rise




This is from the WHO: http://who.int/csr/disease/ebola/ebola-6-months/guinea-chart-big.png?ua=1


guinea-chart-big.png


I am sorry if this sounds really prissy, but people are basing their fear (and in some cases criticism) on incorrect information which is not good.

Effective management of this needs everyone understanding the facts about this outbreak and how to deal with it.

If people want to get a great understanding of the outbreak the I cannot recommend the WHO website highly enough. There you will find FAQ, fact sheets, updates on the progression, reports on actions taken - everything!

sorry to be misleading but I was referring to the original case many many years ago!
 
Reading in between the lines and JMOO, he wanted a "new life in America"
Duncan loses a good job. Then 19 year old pregnant girl dies of Ebola. A couple days later he is on a plane to USA back to his girlfriend and his family in Texas. Pastor claims they were to be married. He is a Liberian.American. Does that mean he was born there? Lived here and went back there? How long did he live there? Why did he lose his good job?
I know one of the answers: he up and quit his job. His employer stated that.
 
maybe she's pi$$ed they haven't gotten the "golden" basketball yet. It's all about them, they are the victims. F.UM.IMO

Maybe you know the details, but as far as I know, she and her family ARE victims of this sad event. JMO
 
Exactly! This is the point I was trying to make earlier. I just don't think ebola and the diseases you mentioned are comparable for this exact reason. I totally agree with your post!

They're not and now I'm wondering if the Dallas Health Director has read the Hot Zone. I would bet not or this would be going a lot differently.
 
Maybe you know the details, but as far as I know, she and her family ARE victims of this sad event. JMO

Agreed. They are victims of Duncan's carelessness/negligence/ lies/ selfishness. Unless she told him ' come here and lie on the health docs' and KNEW he had been exposed, then she's every bit his victim. I pray she and the kids do not get this.
 
Okay so let's assume some of us were in the same situation (isolated in an apartment with our loved ones, presumably no washer/dryer, but they had a hot water and a sink/bathtub).

Instead of living in ebola infected squalor I would have asked for sheets, plastic mattress liners, gloves, and BLEACH. At the very very least they would have given them bleach! Then I would start to clean the place myself and throw the infected linens into a closet or back room.

It sounds to me like these "poor people" were just living there without even TRYING to disinfect and protect themselves? I do think if they DID try to clean the place the media would have reported that. The woman had kids living with her, she should have at least TRIED to protect them.

The daughter Jallah did make some effort to disinfect, it's in one of the earlier articles:

Reluctantly, Jallah and the others left the hospital and returned to Troh’s apartment. While a cousin swept the floors, Jallah placed the blanket she had bought back on her mother’s bed, sprayed disinfectant throughout the apartment and sprinkled liquid Clorox on the furniture.
“Don’t sleep in that bed,” she told Troh.
“Oh, you just bought that blanket,” her mother complained.
But Jallah was insistent. Later, she bought her mother sanitizers, a makeshift mattress and two new blankets.<snip>
Jallah and Yah are careful not to shake the hands of visitors and when someone leaves, they use a sanitizing wipe to turn the doorknob to let the person out. http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...6a0_story.html
 
History channel now has how our water systems are poluted, oceans even. Coffee caffiene even in fish from our waste.................
 
Agreed. They are victims of Duncan's carelessness/negligence/ lies/ selfishness. Unless she told him ' come here and lie on the health docs' and KNEW he had been exposed, then she's every bit his victim. I pray she and the kids do not get this.

I think he lied about being possibly exposed, but he was asymptomatic and did not KNOW that he was sick. JMO
 
If you handle anyone sick and you live in an epidemic area you should automatically assume they have Ebola. He knew. The pregnant woman was so late in the disease state that she died the next day, she likely had obvious hemorrhagic symptoms. Even bystanders knew he was helping an Ebola victim. It is sad that being a kind human being can get you sick, but that is the reality. IMO it makes him selfish and stupid to come home and risk getting sick around his family and in a country that is not affected.
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She died at 3a.m. that same night. So while he may not have know about her brother and parents' deaths, he knew about hers because it was before he left.
 
He lied on travel documents to get here...............ok
BUT once in USA why didn't he immediately tell the truth to get help?
He should of said "I as exposed to Ebola helping a neighbor"
told his girlfriend and family..........stay away from me
go a room by himself if hospital turned him away.
He deliberatly put his family here in danger and he KNEW!!!
He had choices and he is not stupid.
Unforgiveable JMOO
I hope he has to work and pay the expenses of this back to the taxpayers!
but with our society he probably will get freebies instead
If he lives, I sure hope he is prosecuted either in Dallas or Liberia and not allowed to keep the house in the gated community that was donated. Otherwise, that is just rewarding him for needlessly endangering many lives. We used to prosecute people who continued to have unprotected sex knowing they had AIDS, why should he be any different???
 
I'm sure the daughter who is now whining in the news, will expect/get the same thing, or close to it. She's whining she had no electricity, well neither did a whole lot of other people who had the same storm. Her other plight comes from her "Daddy":facepalm:. She needs to just be quiet, stay inside, until they're given the all clear. I'm losing my compassion for this whole family. Did the boy from the other family get his requested basketball?:gaah:
Yeah, but I give the daughter credit for having the common sense to get past his denials and recognize that it could be Ebola and call the ambulance, otherwise he would have died in the apartment, and noone would be aware that he had Ebola!!!
 
QUOTE=passionflower;11052025]Until being terminated in early September, he had worked as a personal driver for the general manager of Safeway Cargo, a FedEx contractor in Liberia. He did not work for FedEx, as earlier reported, the company said Thursday.[/QUOTE]

Reading in between the lines and JMOO, he wanted a "new life in America"
Duncan loses a good job. Then 19 year old pregnant girl dies of Ebola. A couple days later he is on a plane to USA back to his girlfriend and his family in Texas. Pastor claims they were to be married. He is a Liberian.American. Does that mean he was born there? Lived here and went back there? How long did he live there? Why did he lose his good job?

Do you have a link for your statements about Mr Duncan being sacked? My understanding was that he walked out of his job abruptly.

This is from abc news - I have read similar elsewhere:

Duncan's former boss in Monrovia, Liberia, said the patient had been his driver for the last year or two until he abruptly left his job in early September. "I really don’t know," why he left, Henry Brunson, general manager of Safeway Cargo, told ABC News. "He didn’t resign. He just left the office. He just walked away.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-ebola-patient-thomas-duncan-prayed-family-phone/story?id=25885934[
 
I don't know that that would work though....I don't know much about air travel from other countries to the U.S., but it seems like people would just travel over land from Africa to other countries that they could fly out of. That would do nothing to keep ebola out of the U.S., and it might even spread it further to countries other than Africa.

And depending how much it is restricted, it could prevent people from going to Africa to help if they know they can't come back. Africa is not an island unto itself; if the disease is not stemmed there, it will eventually affect other countries one way or another.
Good Point, actually he changed planes in Brussels. So he actually flew into the US from Brussels, and changed planes again in Washington,D.C. More passengers/planes to look into.
 
wonder what would be so important that he would not go to work? What was he doing? Was he not feeling well? I know he had no fever..........but doesn't aspirin take away fever?

He walked out of his job BEFORE he even tried to help the pregnant woman.

He was making plans to go to the Us, he had his visa.
 
Did you all look at this photo in a link PassionFlower put up earlier? It shows the place where Duncan lived in Monrovia.

http://www.dailypress.com/health/la-fg-ebola-liberia-20141003,0,3662970.story
From this link- oh, this is great- they believed it was everything but Ebola:
s a crowd gathered and the shouting grew louder, accusations flew. Some claimed that she had vomited on Duncan. Some said that she had bled from the mouth. Others said the family lied and said she'd been injured in a car accident. Few of the accusations were consistent, other than the general outrage that the family told neighbors she had died of "low blood," or low blood pressure, and pregnancy complications. But the Blessing Home Clinic, which examined Marthalene on Sept. 15, had diagnosed malaria, according to staffers. When she started convulsing, they told the family to take her to a hospital.
 
I am NOT trying to sell you this book, but since I brought it up earlier, I was wishing I still had my copy around. I thought I'd find some good quotes to share.

&#8220;To mess around with Ebola is an easy way to die. Better to work with something safer, such as anthrax.&#8221;

&#8220;The earth is attempting to rid itself of an infection by human parasite.&#8221;

&#8220;Nine out of ten humans killed? And you're not bothered."
A look of mysterious thoughtfulness crossed his face. "A virus can be useful to a species by thinning it out," he said.''

&#8220;Once the cells in a biological machine stop working, it can never be started again. It goes into a cascade of decay, falling toward disorder and randomness. Except in the case of viruses. They can turn off and go dead. Then, if they come in contact with a living system, they switch on and multiply.''

&#8220;One room in the hospital had not been cleaned up. No one, not even the nuns, had had the courage to enter the obstetric ward. When Joel Breman and the team went in, they found basins of foul water standing among discarded, bloodstained syringes. The room had been abandoned in the middle of childbirths, where dying mothers had aborted fetuses infected with Ebola. The team had discovered the red chamber of the virus queen at the end of the earth, where the life-form had amplified through mothers and their unborn children. (95)&#8221;

&#8220;He open his mouth and gasps into the bag, and the vomiting goes on endlessly. It will not stop, and he keeps bringing up liquid, long after his stomach should have been empty. The airsickness bag fills up to the brim with a substance known as the vomito negro, or the black vomit. The black vomit is not really black; it is a speckled liquid of two colors, black and red, a stew of tarry granules mixed with fresh red arterial blood. It is hemorrhage, and it smells like a slaughterhouse. The black vomit is loaded with virus.&#8221;

&#8220;He becomes dizzy and utterly weak, and his spine goes limp and nerveless and he loses all sense of balance. The room is turning around and around. He is going into shock. He leans over, head on his knees, and brings up an incredible quantity of blood from his stomach and spills it onto the floor with a gasping groan. He loses consciousness and pitches forward onto the floor. The only sound is a choking in his throat as he continues to vomit blood and black matter while unconscious. Then comes a sound like a bedsheet being torn in half, which is the sound of his bowels opening and venting blood from the anus. The blood is mixed with intestinal lining. He has sloughed his gut. The linings of his intestines have come off and are being expelled along with huge amounts of blood. Monet has crashed and is bleeding out.&#8221;

&#8220;Ebola Zaire attacks every organ and tissue in the human body except skeletal muscle and bone. It is a perfect parasite because it transforms virtually every part of the body into a digested slime of virus particles. The seven mysterious proteins that, assembled together, make up the Ebola-virus particle, work as a relentless machine, a molecular shark, and they consume the body as the virus makes copies of itself. Small blood clots begin to appear in the bloodstream, and the blood thickens and slows, and the clots begin to stick to the walls of blood vessels. This is known as pavementing, because the clots fit together in a mosaic. The mosaic thickens and throws more clots, and the clots drift through the bloodstream into the small capillaries, where they get stuck. This shuts off the blood supply to various parts of the body, causing dead spots to appear in the brain, liver, kidneys, lungs, intestines, testicles, breast tissue (of men as well as women), and all through the skin.&#8221;

&#8220;You can&#8217;t fight off Ebola the way you fight off a cold. Ebola does in ten days what it takes AIDS ten years to accomplish.&#8221;

&#8213; Richard Preston, The Hot Zone NON FICTION !

ETA , I'm sorry this is such a giant post. I just thought a little Ebola 101 might be useful.

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/909325-the-hot-zone
 
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