Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

[SCHMAE]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Pers...pitalized-health-officials-say-281124492.html ( i know this has been discussed)

Why aren't the test results in yet?

Published: Oct 31, 2014 at 2:31 PM PDT Last Updated: Oct 31, 2014 at 8:37 PM PDT

That is over 24 hrs. Wouldn't they have a test result by now?

ETA Also it is the 8th story on the news page. Compare that with the DFW news outlets who were going all out with non stop coverage and live feed from helicopters over houses and hospitals , etc.
Curious !!!!!

 

[Detective Klimpt]

IMO it's an implied admission that there really isn't any risk from someone without symptoms. The fear and outcry to lock them up for 21 days, when they have neither disease nor symptoms, never made any sense medically. And still doesn't.

No one has been catching ebola from people without symptoms, nor from anyone who has just had an initial symptom show up. In fact, so far the only way to really be at risk of catching this disease in the US appears to be if you're working in the hospital treating an EXTREMELY symptomatic ebola patient who's spewing fluids everywhere. Hundreds of others have theoretically been exposed, and none have caught anything.

The point is, Steve, that the HCW's dealing with Spencer are not quarantined yet they wanted a mandatory quarantine for Kaci.

 

[SteveS]

The point is, Steve, that the HCW's dealing with Spencer are not quarantined yet they wanted a mandatory quarantine for Kaci.

Well, yeah. The Maine officials have shown themselves to be fairly lackadaisical in preserving "the right to liberty" and more than willing to lock people up on whatever whim occurs to them. I don't know how the people in Maine feel about that, but I'm not comfortable with the precedent it sets.

 

[SStarr33]

That's not really making a whole lot of sense, considering that two nurses did get infected right here in the major city in US.

LOL, ya think? Unreal.

 

[SStarr33]

At the age of 6 in 1946 I was in much the same condition as your sister. My treatment was the same as hers. I was quarantined with 2 other polio children in a hospital ward. Thank God, none of the nurses or other hospital workers shunned us. We were considered unable to transmit the disease after we had been fever free for a few days. Thereafter we were allowed out of our ward & none of the other patients shunned us either. I don't know, perhaps people were kinder & more compassionate back then. Our parents were only allowed to visit twice a week. I became sick at school & had therefore exposed all my classmates. None of them shunned me either. They flooded me with cards, letters, & scrap books. I'm sure the other kids didn't realize the seriousness of what they had been exposed to but their parents certainly did & not a one did anything other than be totally supportive. My how times have changed.

Probably just ignorance. Polio peaked in 1952.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html

 

[rtjedarling]

Of course, ebola IS in fact a "REAL highly contagious virus".

But I get your point. What we are seeing is a challenge to existing quarantine laws in our country. Perhaps it is a good thing this is being explored NOW. We live in a society where quarantine is unknown to the vast majority of our citizens. BUT quarantine was used for cases of polio up until a vaccine became available in 1955, so there are some still around who remember a quarantine sign being posted on the doors of their house.

My older sister developed polio in the mid 1940s. My mother told me their house was quarantined. I have no idea for how long. I was also told that my sister was in a special "disease hospital" for several months and that my parents could not visit with her other than to look at her through a glass window. She was treated using the "Sister Kenney" method of applying hot packs to and exercise of her paralyzed leg. Thankfully, she recovered fully.

Yes, quarantine interferes with individual rights. So do things regulated under Public Health Laws, like chlorination of our drinking water, health laws about proper installation of potable water piping systems and proper disposal of sewage.

We do need to get this settled at this time.

---------------------------------
This article describes a polio outbreak in Wytheville, Virginia in 1950:

"Wytheville became an epicenter of a polio epidemic – with over 180 cases and 17 deaths. "There were more polio cases than usual that first part of the summer," Emerson said.


"They started keeping track of it and realized that, for some reason, that we were getting an unusual number," Emerson added. "And it ended up that Wythe County had the largest number of cases, per capita, in the United States."


'Still Don't Know'


Places across town were quarantined in what was called "A Summer Without Children" in Wytheville.


"All the children were kept home that summer," Emerson said. "A lot of families, if they could, got the children out of town."


Emerson's family took her – then, just three years old – to nearby Claytor Lake.


In town, the municipal swimming pool was closed. "And people weren't shopping," Emerson said.


Representatives from the March of Dimes visited the town.


"And all the state health department people were here, trying to figure out what was causing it," Emerson said. "The local government was trying to do something, but nobody knew what to do."

http://www.tricities.com/news/article_c8443f42-0d2f-11e3-93e6-0019bb30f31a.html

We are now several generations since polio with folks who have not had to deal with such infectious diseases that cripple and kill, and also, unfortunately, not so aware (even in healthcare) and who have screwed up values and morals and are not going to handle exposure to virulent disease spread in a sensible way. The smartest thing people can do is not to depend on the experts, but self educate. It's not that some experts don't understand the science involved with Ebola, but just say "oh well, there may be some outbreaks which will work out to be self limiting eventually and not widespread," and while that may be true, it does not mean we should not try our best to prevent those outbreaks. God knows we spend enough money on plenty of wasteful crap. The problem is as long as experts and politicians pockets aren't affected or their families aren't getting sick, well you know, they don't really give a good you know what. And who knows when some devastating disease that will be widespread will come along. I'm afraid when that day comes this country will be hit harder than it could be if we weren't so smart ### about dealing with such disease- I just want to shake some of these people and say stop thinking only about yourself and your convenience, stop whining and pontificating, and do your job, stretch yourselves and try to be decent human beings. Seems like everybody is their own little God these days and when it hits the fan, well it's certainly not their fault.

 

[SteveS]

That's not really making a whole lot of sense, considering that two nurses did get infected right here in the major city in US.

I'd say the approach being used with those nurses makes great sense. How many in the US, other than nurses working with a patient spewing ebola-loaded-fluids everywhere, have caught ebola? Zero. There's been no evidence that nurses working on a patient are going to infect others with this disease, so what makes sense is that they be treated accordingly.

 

[SStarr33]

Quote Originally Posted by DeDee

I remain perplexed that Nurse Nina Phem was capable of flying off to DC to give the President a hug after having contracted the deadly Ebola virus and recovered.

Originally Posted by Sonya610

I believe she was at a hospital in MD, so no flight to visit the White House on her release, just a drive.



The issue is simple curiosity. Nina never "looked" ill. JMO There are pics of her in hospital isolation and she is smiling. Managing a deadly virus likely would have one nauseated, vomiting, w/ diarrhea & a fever that would cause weight loss. Being "capable" meant that she had the strength to do anything other than go home. NP held a news conference and visited the President upon discharge.

[/COLOR]
MOO

With regards to them losing weight due to the virus, Brantley and Writebol gained LOTS of "weight" while in treatment.

http://www.idweek.org/ebola_idweek_2014/

Despite weight gains of 15-20 kg, the patients were profoundly hypovolemic due to their low serum albumin and vascular leak with third spacing. Fluid losses in their patients were 5-10 L/day.

Then I guess they pee it off while in recovery. IMO, these days, Brantley always looks sickly.

 

[SStarr33]

We are now several generations since polio with folks who have not had to deal with such infectious diseases that cripple and kill, and also, unfortunately, not so aware (even in healthcare) and who have screwed up values and morals and are not going to handle exposure to virulent disease spread in a sensible way. The smartest thing people can do is not to depend on the experts, but self educate. It's not that some experts don't understand the science involved with Ebola, but just say "oh well, there may be some outbreaks which will work out to be self limiting eventually and not widespread," and while that may be true, it does not mean we should not try our best to prevent those outbreaks. God knows we spend enough money on plenty of wasteful crap. The problem is as long as experts and politicians pockets aren't affected or their families aren't getting sick, well you know, they don't really give a good you know what. And who knows when some devastating disease that will be widespread will come along. I'm afraid when that day comes this country will be hit harder than it could be if we weren't so smart ### about dealing with such disease- I just want to shake some of these people and say stop thinking only about yourself and your convenience, stop whining and pontificating, and do your job, stretch yourselves and try to be decent human beings. Seems like everybody is their own little God these days and when it hits the fan, well it's certainly not their fault.

Thread winner for me--thanks is not enough.

 

[SStarr33]

Gitana is referring to my post.
No, I think the quarantine should apply to HCW's treating patients in USA as well. How that can be accomplished is another problem for which I don't have solution. That's why I'm just an ordinary citizen not in a decision making position.

I read somewhere (I'll try to find it if anyone is interested) that HCW's treating Spencer are going home each night and that there is zero (yes, that's a quote) chance of spreading ebola to anyone. They may hug and kiss their loved ones. I don't recall if it was the NYC mayor or a hospital official that said that.

It makes no sense to me for each state to have their own policy. When it comes to quarantine, what applies to one should apply to another.

Lastly, as I've written before, I do not see what the big deal is to be quarantined such that it would discourage someone from serving in Africa.

The only thing that is going to discourage them is the lack of a three week vacation post visit to Ebolaville added to the fact that Brantley, Writebol, Sacra, Mystery Pt, Ashok and Spencer caught the disease. And none of them know exactly how they got it.

 

[SStarr33]

Well, yeah. The Maine officials have shown themselves to be fairly lackadaisical in preserving "the right to liberty" and more than willing to lock people up on whatever whim occurs to them. I don't know how the people in Maine feel about that, but I'm not comfortable with the precedent it sets.

I'm not from Maine, so I'm not familiar with what has happened there. On what other whims have Maine officials locked people up?

 

[SStarr33]

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/11/pentagons-civilian-employees-get-options-ebola

Pentagon's civilian employees get options on Ebola

The Associated Press
© November 1, 2014
WASHINGTON

The Pentagon says its civilian employees who return from Ebola response missions in West Africa will not be required to undergo the same 21-day quarantine-like monitoring that is required of most returning U.S. military members.

 

[SStarr33]

CDC new video on donning and doffing PPE. See if you can find all of the freaking violations of aseptic technique. SMH

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833907

 

[SStarr33]

Sierra Leone News: Neini Chiefdom isolated

http://awoko.org/2014/10/31/sierra-leone-news-neini-chiefdom-isolated/

 

[cianne]

CDC new video on donning and doffing PPE. See if you can find all of the freaking violations of aseptic technique. SMH

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833907

Ooooooh, I like this game!

 

[SStarr33]

Ooooooh, I like this game!

LOL, me too. And if you are a medical professional, you can register and give your comments.

 

[BirdycatNY]

rtjedarling, imo you are absolutely correct that self-education is important and smart. Medical expertise is important too.

jmo, W.African communities/families affected by Ebola should get basic education and supplies in addition to importing health care workers. As I already mentioned, it is essential that families get things like bleach and cleaning supplies, and food if they truly want to contain disease. The problems these countries face are failing healthcare infrastructure, malnutrition, lack of access to supplies and medical education, but also some continue their burial practices of touching the dead. Even with all this pontification as you say, there are simple things that families can do like clean with bleach and avoid touching. Just teaching households to use bleach, and then actually providing them with basics- bleach and food may help them stave off the disease and prevent the spread a little bit.

O/T- But I have a FELV+ cat (it's a highly contagious retrovirus disease in felines) and I research on my own about her nutrition, hygiene, and precautions to take with other cats in addition to my vet's advice. This is because the disease affects every cat differently and the vet medical profession is still learning about it. i.e. my cat is considered an asymptomatic carrier of the disease, she's not sick but she can give it to other cats. Anyway, I know it's a totally different disease than ebola in humans, but taking precautions like quarantine-keeping her indoors/away from cats, cleaning, and managing her health-immune system with food and a low stress environment reminds me of some of the simple things that maybe would help prevent the spread of ebola.

 

[SStarr33]

For Man in Ebola Virus Cleanup, a History of Fraud

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/n...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

[nightwatch]

For Man in Ebola Virus Cleanup, a History of Fraud

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/n...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Oh my word! Hopefully he didn't cheat on the cleaning solutions. Jmo

ciao

 

[lawstudent]

The medical professionals resist the most because they are the ones most aware of how ebola works. They know they have almost no chance of infecting anyone if they get quarantined before the gastrointestinal symptoms start, and while I get that it is not totally impossible, the standard of impossibility is not the one we use in quarantining people. While I get the question "but why even take the chance?", you could apply that to a million things we do every day that have a tiny risk of death. Ebola is scarier because we don't deal with that every day, but these doctors did, so the risk ranks along with other more common ones in their minds. I don't think it's fair to say that they aren't worried until it affects them. I think that's generally true of the public, but not generally the doctors.

Doctors are not usually the ones screaming about how it's everyone else's fault they were infected once they get infected. They recognize the riskiness of the job and do their best to recover with treatment. They see more bad endings than anyone, but aren't usually the ones out there advocating for changes to products known to cause illness or injury. It's the general public that waits until one of these situations strikes them personally, and then wants all risk eradicated through drastic action. Doctors live with the knowledge that it could indeed be their own kid who falls victim to some rare illness - they see it every day. But they know that it's not likely to be ebola - they know about all the possibilities, and live with that knowledge.