Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

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I was thinking about this a lot. I have been loudly critical of the handling of Dallas/ Texas with the whole matter. It all seemed lazy and confused and non urgent. Well, it seems Dallas handled it much better than I ever thought possible. Did Dallas contain Ebola? Or was Dallas super lucky? Or is it time to spray glitter on my tinfoil hat ?
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I had a chance to talk to some insiders at PHD a few days ago. It was their contention that some in the media completely misrepresented what happened. We did NOT talk about the initial ER visit, but what happened from the time he arrived at Presby on Sept. 28.
 
SteveS said:
Your questions start with "what if" and then assume the worst case for someone, without any evidence that those things are ever happening. That's not a good way to govern, because life has lots of situations that would be awful if the very worst thing that could possibly happen happened.

For example, should we be calling for all planes to be grounded because one could land on our head? Should we demand that high-speed highways be outlawed lest someone drive down one and a huge sinkhole has opened around the next bend, causing them terrible harm before they can stop in time?

There's simply no way to micromanage risk out of lives. If someone chooses to travel to WAfrica, let them know the consequences in advance, and then if they weigh that the reward for them outweighs the risk of possible quarantine or hospitalization and what that might do to their life, that's their choice.

I think we should be in favor of people having freedom to make their own choices, with the understanding that any choice they make will entail some risk in some way. Besides the fact that a risk-free existence can't be created no matter how smothering you are, life is best lived when people are freed to make their own risk-reward choices and then let their lives unfold.
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I agree, but to an extent. Sierra Leone is roughly the size of NJ, DE & MD all put together. That's huge. So is the USA quarantining everyone coming from there bc all of Sierra Leone is infected with Ebola? I didn't think they were, due to the large size and population. Idk. Geographically speaking, it's huge, so if its not all infected then I do think freedoms are squelched and it might not be fair if the person wasn't around anyone with Ebola. Hope I explained what I'm trying to say right. Also, only used Sierra Leone as an example - it's 27,699 sq miles (71,740 km²).
 
SCHMAE said:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...ssion-other-key-facts/ar-BBcPy9B?ocid=UP97DHP

''But penetration through intact skin has not been definitively ruled out, said hemorrhagic-fever expert Thomas Ksiarek of the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB), who co-led a session on Ebola's transmission routes.

"Does bleach or hand sanitizer," which people in West Africa are using to protect themselves from Ebola, "make the skin more susceptible" to being penetrated by the virus?, Peters wondered. "It's a question that has to be asked."'''

ETA When you get bleach on your hands, it makes them really slick. So now this has me thinking and hopefully someone here will know the answer. Does bleach remove the outermost protective layer of skin? Open the pores up wider? Anyone know ? TIA

ETA Oh UGH! In my haste , I posted before finishing the article and this one is a zinger. '''Also unknown is whether the time between exposure to Ebola and the appearance of symptoms depends on which bodily fluids someone contacted. If it does, then someone exposed through, say, saliva rather than blood might incubate the virus for longer than the 21 days officials have repeatedly said is the outer limit of the incubation period.''''
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^^^ This right here is very interesting to me. I learned many years ago that prolonged use of hand sanitizers and antibacterial soaps can also kill the good bacteria a person has along with killing the bad bacteria. I use bleach for so much - including a diluted remedy for ringworm when my boys wrestle as it works better than anything else ever lol...but straight bleach can burn off the top layer of derma and prolonged use of it touching skin can be very bad. So I wonder if these scientists could be onto something.
 
Jersey*Girl said:
^^^ This right here is very interesting to me. I learned many years ago that prolonged use of hand sanitizers and antibacterial soaps can also kill the good bacteria a person has along with killing the bad bacteria. I use bleach for so much - including a diluted remedy for ringworm when my boys wrestle as it works better than anything else ever lol...but straight bleach can burn off the top layer of derma and prolonged use of it touching skin can be very bad. So I wonder if these scientists could be onto something.
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Well that would be great since hand sanitizer is what the cdc first recommended to health care professionals after removal of their inadequate personal protective equipment. I remember scoffing at the gown and mask and gloves they said to wear in the room of an Ebola pt and also scoffed at the hand sanitizer recommendation with no mention of actually washing your hands. Then the very next week two health care workers became ill. I haven't checked since then since I am no longer rotating in the ER and hence no longer have the possibility of having to be near an Ebola pt. But I do hope they have updated their recommendations since then.


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SCHMAE said:
Incredible map !

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/03/map-the-africa-without-ebola/
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Amazing! Map at your link:

2vjzofm.jpg


>>> So, some geographical perspective: Guinea, Sierra Leone & Liberia combined is 165,625 sq miles. In comparison, California is 163,696 sq miles. <<<
 
Jersey*Girl said:
I agree, but to an extent. Sierra Leone is roughly the size of NJ, DE & MD all put together. That's huge. So is the USA quarantining everyone coming from there bc all of Sierra Leone is infected with Ebola? I didn't think they were, due to the large size and population. Idk. Geographically speaking, it's huge, so if its not all infected then I do think freedoms are squelched and it might not be fair if the person wasn't around anyone with Ebola. Hope I explained what I'm trying to say right. Also, only used Sierra Leone as an example - it's 27,699 sq miles (71,740 km²).
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It is about 150 miles across. That is pretty small, people could easily travel from end of the country to the other in less than a day even with bad roads. If they had enforced their OWN strict quarantine among affected areas I could see maybe not worrying about the whole country but they didn't.
 
danzn16 said:
Well that would be great since hand sanitizer is what the cdc first recommended to health care professionals after removal of their inadequate personal protective equipment. I remember scoffing at the gown and mask and gloves they said to wear in the room of an Ebola pt and also scoffed at the hand sanitizer recommendation with no mention of actually washing your hands. Then the very next week two health care workers became ill. I haven't checked since then since I am no longer rotating in the ER and hence no longer have the possibility of having to be near an Ebola pt. But I do hope they have updated their recommendations since then.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I love hand sanitizer, swear by it still lol. But it's worth noting that prolonged daily use - meaning years - can aid to kill good bacteria as well...just like antibacterial soap...which of course I still use as well. :waitasec: :floorlaugh:
 
Sonya610 said:
It is about 150 miles across. That is pretty small, people could easily travel from ONE end of the country to the other in less than a day. India and Russia are "huge", Sierra Leone is tiny.
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I know it's small compared to other larger places. However, I'm trying to put the size into perspective comparing it to states here in the US. I can travel from NY, through DE then to the end of MD in less than a day as well...heck half a day lol. What I'm saying is its a huge area that has thousands of people that haven't been infected. So I'm curious of the automatic quarantine policy, I'm trying to figure out the reasoning. For instance, there's 15,753,749 population of NJ, DE & MD. There's city, towns, country in all 3 states. There's places that a person might be less susceptible of transmitting a contagion due to an area that isn't heavily populated. Places in Sierra Leone is the same. So I'm just trying to educate myself on the reasoning. That's all. :)
 
Sonya610 said:
It is about 150 miles across. That is pretty small, people could easily travel from end of the country to the other in less than a day even with bad roads. If they had enforced their OWN strict quarantine among affected areas I could see maybe not worrying about the whole country but they didn't.
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I responded before your update. Yeah, that makes alot more sense. Good point.
 
I am really amazed by the way people are reading negative things into what Kaci Hickox said about the PPE.

The hazmat suits do look like spacesuits - they have been described exactly like that on these threads on more than one occasion, so why using the same terminology is a reason to criticise her is a mystery. They are frightening for many patients, hideously uncomfortable in the humidity and heat and a real barrier between carer and patient. Does that mean that next time she goes back she is not going to wear a hazmat suit - of course it doesn't. Has she hinted at the suits being an unnecessary restriction? No she has not.

It is as if some are trying to use what she has said as another example of her 'poor' attitude to authority.

I don't think it can be interpreted like that at all - I have heard many healthcare workers who are volunteering in WA lamenting the fact that the hazmat suits prevent them from providing the hands on care that they were trained to provide - the hands on care that drew them to the caring professions in the first place. Watching a child or anyone for that matter dying in front of you with none of their loved ones present to ease their passing and not even being able to hold their hand without the barrier of double or triple gloves or look into their eyes properly without the barrier of goggles and a facemask must be truly upsetting. How that can be a reason to criticise her is beyond me.
 
Watching nightly news on BBC - looking at the effects of Ebola out in the country in Sierra Leone.

In a village where people are just lying by the road and dying. Talking to an old man trying to nurse his wife. A group of children - they asked how many had been orphaned - about 15-20 put their hands up. The only quarantine appears to be the children congregating on the opposite side of the street from where the sick people are lying and dying.

In the next village they are building their own isolation centre. Not enough beds in Sierra Leone so the local solutions are important. There is a 10 year old boy who survived but lost his entire family. A man has just died down the street from the 10 year old's house - he was a father of nine. At least the burial team was on hand to bury him quickly and safely.

A new hospital built with British help is nearly ready to open. only 320 beds in the whole country. the new facility and five more will provide 700 beds.

Guy from PH England hoping that they can get the infection rate down to below 1 person infected for every new case in about three months.

Latest figures suggest a spike in cases in the NW of the country but this is likely to be due to better reporting which is actually a good thing as contact tracing etc can be put in place there.
 
Jersey*Girl said:
I know it's small compared to other larger places. However, I'm trying to put the size into perspective comparing it to states here in the US. I can travel from NY, through DE then to the end of MD in less than a day as well...heck half a day lol. What I'm saying is its a huge area that has thousands of people that haven't been infected. So I'm curious of the automatic quarantine policy, I'm trying to figure out the reasoning. For instance, there's 15,753,749 population of NJ, DE & MD. There's city, towns, country in all 3 states. There's places that a person might be less susceptible of transmitting a contagion due to an area that isn't heavily populated. Places in Sierra Leone is the same. So I'm just trying to educate myself on the reasoning. That's all. :)
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What is this "automatic quarantine policy" you mention? Other than CT, is there any such thing anywhere for a traveler?
 
SteveS said:
What is this "automatic quarantine policy" you mention? Other than CT, is there any such thing anywhere for a traveler?
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I'm talking about if a person travels from West Africa to say for example NJ (or rather to Brussels then into NJ) and they show a fever during the no contact temperature assessment on arrival at the airport, they are transported into isolation and subject to quarantine. A person can develop a fever for any number of reasons, especially on such a long overseas flight. Even if a person wasn't in contact with a diseased person they'd still be subject to this treatment...unless I'm misunderstanding? That's what I thought was reported a few days ago...
 
SteveS said:
What is this "automatic quarantine policy" you mention? Other than CT, is there any such thing anywhere for a traveler?
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According to the Dallas Morning News, Texas issued new recommendations today for travelers returning to Texas.
 
Lyra500 said:
Watching nightly news on BBC - looking at the effects of Ebola out in the country in Sierra Leone.

In a village where people are just lying by the road and dying. Talking to an old man trying to nurse his wife. A group of children - they asked how many had been orphaned - about 15-20 put their hands up. The only quarantine appears to be the children congregating on the opposite side of the street from where the sick people are lying and dying.

In the next village they are building their own isolation centre. Not enough beds in Sierra Leone so the local solutions are important. There is a 10 year old boy who survived but lost his entire family. A man has just died down the street from the 10 year old's house - he was a father of nine. At least the burial team was on hand to bury him quickly and safely.

A new hospital built with British help is nearly ready to open. only 320 beds in the whole country. the new facility and five more will provide 700 beds.

Guy from PH England hoping that they can get the infection rate down to below 1 person infected for every new case in about three months.

Latest figures suggest a spike in cases in the NW of the country but this is likely to be due to better reporting which is actually a good thing as contact tracing etc can be put in place there.
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Thank you for the info. I searched it and found the video. Very sad.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29900101
 
Australia will send medics.
...the government has now agreed to manage a UK field hospital in Sierra Leone, local media says.The UK has also agreed to treat Australian volunteers as if they were British citizens, reports the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper, citing officials.
Any infected Australian worker would be evacuated either to the UK for treatment or to Germany under a UK arrangement, the paper says.
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bbc.uk

 
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