Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[Sonoma Mommy]

I believe it was homocide and if perp (resident or employee) killed her before tank, and if it's true that body was placed in tank 2 weeks or so after death, he could have hid her somewhere beforehand and searched hotel premises until he found the perfect hiding place.
He then discovered tank, maybe set up ladder, checked out the opening into tank and decided this would be ideal to ultimately place body. This whole ordeal is horrific. Her poor family.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I believe it was homocide and if perp (resident or employee) killed her before tank, and if it's true that body was placed in tank 2 weeks or so after death, he could have hid her somewhere beforehand and searched hotel premises until he found the perfect hiding place.
He then discovered tank, maybe set up ladder, checked out the opening into tank and decided this would be ideal to ultimately place body. This whole ordeal is horrific. Her poor family.

- If it was a murder, I wondered why the perp didn't remove the body from the Hotel? ( bury it in a remote location or possibly dump it in the ocean)

- 1 reason could be....the only way down ( transporting the body) to the first floor was the elevator. If the perp knew about the camera's in the elevator perp didn't want to be on film. ( most likely knew the LE would be looking at the video soon....if he was a employee not a guest , perp would look suspicios with a large case)


- Most video surveilance recorders reset after 2 weeks.....( take 2 weeks of video....then erase drive and record the next 2 weeks)

- If perp wanted to hide the Body for a few weeks unitl everything died down...maybe the employee put her in the tank?....but couldn't get her back out?...

 

[Shlock Homes]

I'm leaning to homicide. Until the police release more information about the case, we have bits and pieces from various media sources to work from. I'm going with the evidence that she was found naked in the tank, possibly limbs broken, and the lid closed, which was in a chinese media article. The evidence was from an acquaintance of Elisa's uncle according to that same article.

The elevator footage most likely doesn't show her interacting with the killer. In fact, she may not be interacting with anyone. Her state of mind may have been affected by drugs she purposely took, or took by accident. Or she was suffering from an anxiety attack of some kind, or sleep disorder like sleepwalking. The police didn't give a time for when the footage was taken. She appears to be trying to go down in the elevator from the 14th floor, but keeps hitting the door hold button. In her altered state of mind, she is frustrated by her inability to get the elevator to work, and doesn't understand she's the cause. She isn't afraid, or fearing for her life as the body language shows, she's more frustrated than anything else.

It's highly unlikely she knew anything about the water tanks on the roof to the point that she would crawl into one of them and die (commit suicide; death by misadventure). She might have made her way to the roof by accident when leaving the elevator, but I would lean to her falling off the side of the roof versus drowning in a tank that probably was also closed and hard to access. The killer would have known about the tanks, probably frequented the roof, maybe even worked at the hotel. If the killer was a resident, and didn't like the idea of bathing in the water contained her dead body, they may have moved out around the same time. Or her body may not have been put into the tank until after she was dead, maybe days or weeks later.

The police haven't released or confirm crucial information to help us form a stronger theory, such as condition of her body when found (other than they could ID her from markings on her body - they aren't confirming that she was naked); how long her body was in the tank (did they search the tank previously when they were on the roof during the missing person phase); what was the time of death; if she was naked, was her clothing found somewhere; or did they locate her clothing from the elevator footage.

To sum it up - probably homicide, the killer was familiar with the building, the roof, the water tanks, and the location of the cameras. If she was killed somewhere else, he would have to be strong enough to carry her body to the roof and place it into the water tank. Removing her clothing and placing her in a body of water seems to indicate willful purpose to hide evidence, any DNA evidence that could direct the police to him. He didn't leave any obvious signs of trauma on the body either, which may be a strong indicator it was preplanned, as opposed to crime of opportunity (e.g. killing her because she stumbled upon a drug deal). A killer of higher than average intelligence, either with previous experience or someone who follows TV shows like CSI.

 

[bourne]

Fascinating case -- right up my alley!

I’ve been retired for some time now. However, I used to work in a dual diagnosis department where I specialized in addictive and psychiatric disorders. The elevator video shows Elisa to be having a psychotic episode in a manic (positive symptom) phase. Her grossly exaggerated and repetitive mannerisms, along with her apparently talking to invisible beings (likely suffering from visual and perhaps auditory hallucinations) indicate that. Note that psychosis can be emanating from Elisa’s own psychopathology and/or induced by drugs (e.g., Ecstasy, LSD).

The distinction between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia is a hazy one even within the psychiatric community. (See explanation of why there is ambiguity at http://www.dnalc.org/view/1252-Differences-Between-Schizophrenia-and-Bipolar-Disorder-1-.html). Hence the confusion for laypeople to judge whether Elisa suffered one or the other, or whether it was comorbid, is understandable. However, given that Elisa appeared to be largely functional and able to carry on ADL (activities of daily life) on her own, it is likely her doctors diagnosed her with bipolar disorder, rather than schizophrenia.

You can read more about the specific symptoms & criteria for these disorders in the industry standard diagnostic & statistical manuals for psychiatry (DSM IV-TR and/or the new DSM V which is due to be out in May 2013; both can be ordered in Amazon.com).

Re: sleepwalking. In my opinion, based solely on the elevator video, it is highly unlikely she is suffering from sleepwalking as sleepwalking generally entails subject doing routine activities such as cooking, eating breakfast or driving a car. Elisa was clearly seen on elevator video to be talking animatedly to something invisible. There was no person/shadow in or outside the elevator apart from Elisa's own. Also it is notable that Elisa leans downward as if she’s speaking to children. Coincidentally, I had in my past work observed many schizophrenics and schizoaffective patients describe seeing “little people” (adults of short stature who are invisible to the non-mentally ill) running about, following and interacting with them. Such imaginings are indicative of visual hallucinations.

Of course her mental condition helps us understand Elisa’s state of mind in the hours prior to her death, but it need not be the proximate cause of her death. Could be that because her mental state was compromised, someone else took advantage of her.

My primary theory of her cause of death is that Elisa suffered from severe psychosis and she threw her clothes and sandals into the water tank and then dove in for a swim. Her death was unintentional, an accidental death by misadventure.

 

[ellie b]

I tend to agree with Bourne, that it was an accidental death by misadventure. Having known a couple of people who have (accidentally) killed themselves in a bizarre fashion while in a drug induced state I think it is entirely possible even though it seems unlikely to some. It may have been mental illness as opposed to drugs. MOO

 

[Public_Hysteria]

I chose accidental death. I strongly believe that EL was under the influence of something when she died (whether it be accidental overdose, or an accident that occurred because she was under the influence of something that impaired her ability to think clearly and make rational decisions), and that whoever was with her freaked out and tried to cover it up by hiding her in the water tank.

Such a bizarre case though, so I have other theories, but this seems the most likely to me. I strongly believe that someone knows what happened that night, and I hope the truth comes out so her friends and family can have some closure as to how this horrible thing came to be.

RIP Elisa. :rose:

 

[Jessica2012]

I think it was homicide. I think someone drugged her, and maybe in the video she was acting like she was talking to someone is so whoever was following her believe she was not alone. Maybe they were at an angle where they could not see if she was alone or not. My opinion only

 

[gitana1]

Ah, thank you for clarifying. In the report I read it made it seem like they did the entire autopsy, save for drug tests (Since those take a few weeks), and didn't find anything.

I think that report quotes LE as well as an independent expert who has no connection to the case. I do believe the autopsy is over and they found no concrete signs of death like drowning.

Fascinating case -- right up my alley!

I’ve been retired for some time now. However, I used to work in a dual diagnosis department where I specialized in addictive and psychiatric disorders. The elevator video shows Elisa to be having a psychotic episode in a manic (positive symptom) phase. Her grossly exaggerated and repetitive mannerisms, along with her apparently talking to invisible beings (likely suffering from visual and perhaps auditory hallucinations) indicate that. Note that psychosis can be emanating from Elisa’s own psychopathology and/or induced by drugs (e.g., Ecstasy, LSD).

The distinction between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia is a hazy one even within the psychiatric community. (See explanation of why there is ambiguity at http://www.dnalc.org/view/1252-Differences-Between-Schizophrenia-and-Bipolar-Disorder-1-.html). Hence the confusion for laypeople to judge whether Elisa suffered one or the other, or whether it was comorbid, is understandable. However, given that Elisa appeared to be largely functional and able to carry on ADL (activities of daily life) on her own, it is likely her doctors diagnosed her with bipolar disorder, rather than schizophrenia.

You can read more about the specific symptoms & criteria for these disorders in the industry standard diagnostic & statistical manuals for psychiatry (DSM IV-TR and/or the new DSM V which is due to be out in May 2013; both can be ordered in Amazon.com).

Re: sleepwalking. In my opinion, based solely on the elevator video, it is highly unlikely she is suffering from sleepwalking as sleepwalking generally entails subject doing routine activities such as cooking, eating breakfast or driving a car. Elisa was clearly seen on elevator video to be talking animatedly to something invisible. There was no person/shadow in or outside the elevator apart from Elisa's own. Also it is notable that Elisa leans downward as if she’s speaking to children. Coincidentally, I had in my past work observed many schizophrenics and schizoaffective patients describe seeing “little people” (adults of short stature who are invisible to the non-mentally ill) running about, following and interacting with them. Such imaginings are indicative of visual hallucinations.

Of course her mental condition helps us understand Elisa’s state of mind in the hours prior to her death, but it need not be the proximate cause of her death. Could be that because her mental state was compromised, someone else took advantage of her.

My primary theory of her cause of death is that Elisa suffered from severe psychosis and she threw her clothes and sandals into the water tank and then dove in for a swim. Her death was unintentional, an accidental death by misadventure.

Thank you so much. I have yet to hear from a mental health professional who thinks she was displaying something other than psychosis in the video.

Question. I read that often people who are diagnosed schizophrenic were earlier diagnosed as bipolar. Is this true ? And could we be seeing the first manifestations of psychosis in Elisa?

 

[Qrious]

I posted this in the Facts Only Thread. Thought I should reproduce it here:

A news report out of Vancouver on 2/25 states "Det. Tim Marcia says investigators have no reason to believe her death was because of foul play".

It also quotes Det. Marcia as saying, "We've done a comprehensive investigation with interviewing everybody at the hotel".

That report became distorted by others into 'LAPD rules out foul play', prompting LAPD to quickly issue a denial.

http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/s...spx?ID=1897213

 

[danzn16]

Fascinating case -- right up my alley!

I’ve been retired for some time now. However, I used to work in a dual diagnosis department where I specialized in addictive and psychiatric disorders. The elevator video shows Elisa to be having a psychotic episode in a manic (positive symptom) phase. Her grossly exaggerated and repetitive mannerisms, along with her apparently talking to invisible beings (likely suffering from visual and perhaps auditory hallucinations) indicate that. Note that psychosis can be emanating from Elisa’s own psychopathology and/or induced by drugs (e.g., Ecstasy, LSD).

The distinction between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia is a hazy one even within the psychiatric community. (See explanation of why there is ambiguity at http://www.dnalc.org/view/1252-Differences-Between-Schizophrenia-and-Bipolar-Disorder-1-.html). Hence the confusion for laypeople to judge whether Elisa suffered one or the other, or whether it was comorbid, is understandable. However, given that Elisa appeared to be largely functional and able to carry on ADL (activities of daily life) on her own, it is likely her doctors diagnosed her with bipolar disorder, rather than schizophrenia.

You can read more about the specific symptoms & criteria for these disorders in the industry standard diagnostic & statistical manuals for psychiatry (DSM IV-TR and/or the new DSM V which is due to be out in May 2013; both can be ordered in Amazon.com).

Re: sleepwalking. In my opinion, based solely on the elevator video, it is highly unlikely she is suffering from sleepwalking as sleepwalking generally entails subject doing routine activities such as cooking, eating breakfast or driving a car. Elisa was clearly seen on elevator video to be talking animatedly to something invisible. There was no person/shadow in or outside the elevator apart from Elisa's own. Also it is notable that Elisa leans downward as if she’s speaking to children. Coincidentally, I had in my past work observed many schizophrenics and schizoaffective patients describe seeing “little people” (adults of short stature who are invisible to the non-mentally ill) running about, following and interacting with them. Such imaginings are indicative of visual hallucinations.

Of course her mental condition helps us understand Elisa’s state of mind in the hours prior to her death, but it need not be the proximate cause of her death. Could be that because her mental state was compromised, someone else took advantage of her.

My primary theory of her cause of death is that Elisa suffered from severe psychosis and she threw her clothes and sandals into the water tank and then dove in for a swim. Her death was unintentional, an accidental death by misadventure.

Thanks for your opinion! I think it's obvious also she was suffering from a MI or drug induced state.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I chose homicide. It's hard for someone, to go up on a roof, undress, drown oneself in a water tank, then get out to get rid of the clothes in a way, they aren't found anywhere, then climb back into the tank ...

 

[noodled1]

I chose homicide. It's hard for someone, to go up on a roof, undress, drown oneself in a water tank, then get out to get rid of the clothes in a way, they aren't found anywhere, then climb back into the tank ...

How do you know the clothes were not found?

 

[Peter Brendt]

How do you know the clothes were not found?

I don't. That was the question in exactly that post, you clipped ... I asked, whether there were any updates on the clothes.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

I don't. That was the question in exactly that post, you clipped ... I asked, whether there were any updates on the clothes.

Good to see you here Peter :rocker: :rocker:

 

[orangesandapples]

I think it was a homicide. I'm not sure whether or not it was pre-planned or a crime of opportunity. Despite how strange she was acting in the elevator, I do not believe she made her way up to that roof and got into the water tank by herself. That makes zero sense to me.

 

[MoonUnderfoot]

I have yet to vote because I can not decide of these two, how I really feel. I keep going back and forth....

*Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

*Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

 

[Albertasleuth]

I know the majority goes with crime of opportunity but I believe what happened to Elise was preplanned.

Elisa reminded me a lot of the younger me. When I was her age, despite of friends and families, I felt very much alone. My family didn't understand me and my friends frequently told me what was good for me. I didn't do well at school and I was always looking forward to seeing a different world. There must be someone out there with whom I could share the same interest and mind and all I had to do was to go out there to find them.

At that age I never thought anything bad could happen to me and I overestimated my ability of reading people - thinking I would have a feeling when I met people with ill intent. I would fly into a town, pick up a rental car then drive to a youth hostel without any plans. I never had problem chatting up to strangers and quickly form a bond with them. I once picked up two guys from a youth hostel in Phoenix and drove with them all the way to Flagstaff. Imagine all the bad things that could happen if those guys had anything else in mind? Fortunately, the Aussie and the hippie from LA didn't want to do me any harm and after two days we parted in perfect content.

It could be possible that Elisa had met someone online who sent her a friendly invitation. She heard about the job and travel opportunity in Santa Cruz so it was perfect for her to make a few stops on her way to her new life, including one at LA to meet the people/person whom she had met online. It's hard to say if the people/person she was supposed to meet intended to kill her or things just went sour and she ended up dead. One way or the other I am guessing her death had something to do with the party in LA.

 

[ncc1701e]

Homicide/crime of opportunity. There's no way she ended up inside that tank by herself, not buying it. MOO.

 

[crazydoglady]

Homicide, crime of opportunity or preplanned.

I think she was kidnapped after the video, with the motive of rape. The perp(s) knew about the security cameras, the access to the roof and the water tanks.

If it was an accident or suicide (which I highly doubt), she would've been found within days. jmo.

About the aggressive Italian and hispanic guys Elisa mentioned... I wonder if there are any Italian and hispanic looking security guards at the hotel...

 

[kingsway]

Elisa was clearly seen on elevator video to be talking animatedly to something invisible. There was no person/shadow in or outside the elevator apart from Elisa's own.

How can you be so sure?