MO Elizabeth Mackintosh,50,Scottish nurse,stabbed,strangled,Theological Seminary,March 1990*new search*

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dotr

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June 23 2020
0_ELIZABETH_MACKINTOSH_001.jpg

Elizabeth Mackintosh was originally from Edinburgh and was studying for a degree in counselling before she was murdered (Image: UGC)
US cops re-examine brutal murder of Scots nurse stabbed in neck with scissors
''Cold case detectives in the US have launched a new investigation into the brutal murder of a Scottish nurse at a US religious college 30 years ago.

Elizabeth Mackintosh, 50, was found beaten, strangled with a cord and stabbed in the neck in the toilet of a chapel at the Covenant Theological Seminary in Creve Coeur, Missouri, in March 1990.

Elizabeth, the daughter of a former Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland, was originally from Edinburgh and was studying at the seminary for a degree in counselling.''
 
June 18 2020 rbbm.
Retired police detectives try to solve decades-old Creve Coeur murder case
''Retired detectives and police captains Dennis Spoerry, George Hodak, and Dale Bailey say they’re are back on the murder case of Elizabeth Mackintosh. The brutal homicide occurred in March 1990 at Covenant Theological Seminary, near Conway Road and Interstate 270.
“This is the one case in my career we weren’t able to settle,” Bailey said.

Mackintosh was a student and was working on campus to pay for her tuition. Her body was found brutalized in the men’s room of the chapel. She was 50.

“An electrical cord was used to tie her up to the top of a stall in the bathroom,” said Creve Coeur Det. Doug Manniner, who is currently working on the case.

Manniner said Mackintosh died from strangulation. She also suffered puncture wounds to her neck.

“We believe the weapon was pair of scissors,” he said.''
'They are now focused on one man as the suspect but he’s not cooperating. They’re hopeful advances in technology like DNA could help them bring charges.

“It’s the case that bugged us for 30 years,” Spoerry said.

Hodak added: “It’s a policeman’s nightmare, to have a murder suspect still running around out there and you can’t do anything about it.''


Detectives called it a rage murder; there were no signs of sexual assault or robbery.

“This is the only unsolved case, homicide, in Creve Coeur’s history,” Hodak said.''
 
I'm so glad they are still working on this - I live in St. Louis and remember when this happened. The indication has been they have always known who it was but couldn't prove it - I'm hoping there is DNA on something that they can get him with.
 
@dotr , do you think the perpetrator wasn't aware of her counseling major, thought she wanted to become a pastor???

Rage death in the chapel & all.

PCA does not ordain females.

JMHO YMMV LRR
 
@dotr , do you think the perpetrator wasn't aware of her counseling major, thought she wanted to become a pastor???

Rage death in the chapel & all.

PCA does not ordain females.

JMHO YMMV LRR
Very surprising considering the murder happened circa 1990, in Canada there have been female ministers since at least 1966 ..
Maybe EM made the perp feel dumb and inadequate to begin with, then to find her in the men's washroom where maybe he felt was the one place where he had the upper hand, maybe EM scolded him for making a mess after she had cleaned ? speculation, imo.
The Presbyterian Church in Canada Archives – First Female Ministers
 
Very surprising considering the murder happened circa 1990, in Canada there have been female ministers since at least 1966 ..
Maybe EM made the perp feel dumb and inadequate to begin with, then to find her in the men's washroom where maybe he felt was the one place where he had the upper hand, maybe EM scolded him for making a mess after she had cleaned ? speculation, imo.
The Presbyterian Church in Canada Archives – First Female Ministers

PCUSA ordains women, PCA does not. The denominations officially reunified in 1983 (after the US Civil War.) Churches that did not join the PCUSA formed other denominations. The PCA is more conservative; this is PCA's seminary, I think the only one. Church of Scotland does ordain women.

You're right, the perp could have become angry for many reasons, Ms. Mackintosh may have been the target or in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Hi! My chosen name is Karl Saint Lucy, but my given name is Karl Michael Johnson. My father, Michael Johnson, has been the prime suspect in this case for 32 years. I thought I'd pop on here and fill in some personal context for those of you who are still following this case.

I was two years old when Elizabeth was murdered, and my sister was nine months old. Covenant tried to illegally deny my father his M.Div. when it became clear he was the prime suspect, but they did manage to forcibly evict us from on-campus housing, and when we finally left St Louis, we moved to southern California. At that church, the session told my father that, since he'd never been charged with a crime, it wasn't on him to divulge his dubious connection to the Elizabeth Mackintosh case when applying for pastoral jobs. So he'd get a job, we'd move across the country for his new church job, and we'd have to leave when the locals figured out that he was embroiled in the PCA's most infamous murder.

He only ever scored an executive pastor job once, though, in South Dakota. The article from Edinburgh's Daily Record, shared above, was faxed from the newspaper to our local newspaper in Lennox, South Dakota. When the locals found out, they terrorized us; they throw rocks at my sister, calling her "the murderer's daughter," and it was enough that my parents at that point shared the story of Elizabeth's murder and why my dad was implicated. I was 12 at that time. We had to flee to Texas to live near my mother's parents.

Of course, at that point, my parents shared it with us as if it was a big frame job; my dad was put-upon and disliked by seminary administration, according to them. But my father was emotionally and physically abusive throughout my childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood, and I finally allowed myself to consider the possibility that he had done it after I came out as gay to my parents at age 20 and he reacted with violence.

I personally reached out to CCPD a few years ago when one of my father's coworkers at a retail establishment was found dead in his home. I didn't have any evidence that my father was responsible, but a few things rang alarm bells: my dad was responsible for driving him to work the day he died, but when my dad got to his home, the guy didn't answer. Rather than informing his boss, my dad just went about his day and didn't say anything until he went the next day and there was still no answer. The guy had developmental disabilities similar to my brother's, and they were the same age; my brother was my father's favorite target for violence at home. The way my mother shared the news with my sister was just really strange, and it smacked of the language and delivery she uses when she's manipulating or hiding something. I wrote a CCPD detective saying that I had a weird feeling about this recent death and that I thought it might be possible that he was involved in Elizabeth's murder as well. As I understand it, my letter to that detective is largely responsible for the case having been recently reopened.

I don't know whether my father killed Elizabeth Mackintosh, but the man certainly has homicidal rage. He's racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and narcissistic, and he has such profound issues with authority that he can barely hold down a basic retail job. I cut off contact with both of my parents in 2014 for a number of reasons, chief among them being my realization, through therapy, that my mother had been an accessory to my father's abuse, and I was getting absolutely nothing but drama and disappointment from continuing to be in contact with either of them.

This is basically just all to say that regardless of whether he killed Elizabeth Mackintosh, the PCA is a horrible institution, as are the police, and the fact of my having been essentially born into the conditions that paved the way for her murder has shaped my entire life in ways that are difficult to explain. Church people knew throughout my childhood that things were bad at home, and no one intervened; neither did the police. I've suffered from major depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder for my entire adulthood, and though EMDR was helpful, I still have a long way to go.

I just hope that, when you discuss cases like this, you can have compassion for the innocent bystanders whose lives were ruined by every person and institution involved. The fact that I've survived to 34 is testament to my queer sensibility, and the ways that subjectivity has allowed me to see through all the patriarchal stuff that's kept this woman's family in misery and me in a state of deep ambivalence for 32 years.

Certainly, her murder was a heinous crime, but the ways I was neglected, abused, and failed utterly by institutions and people that were supposed to be there for me has resulted in a profound amount of suffering for me. I hope that, through my work towards developing a healthy relationship with her murder, and in investigating the crime, I can draw attention to the broader scope of social and religious abuse that continues to follow its superficial discussion as a run-of-the-mill whodunit.
 
Hi! My chosen name is Karl Saint Lucy, but my given name is Karl Michael Johnson. My father, Michael Johnson, has been the prime suspect in this case for 32 years. I thought I'd pop on here and fill in some personal context for those of you who are still following this case.

I was two years old when Elizabeth was murdered, and my sister was nine months old. Covenant tried to illegally deny my father his M.Div. when it became clear he was the prime suspect, but they did manage to forcibly evict us from on-campus housing, and when we finally left St Louis, we moved to southern California. At that church, the session told my father that, since he'd never been charged with a crime, it wasn't on him to divulge his dubious connection to the Elizabeth Mackintosh case when applying for pastoral jobs. So he'd get a job, we'd move across the country for his new church job, and we'd have to leave when the locals figured out that he was embroiled in the PCA's most infamous murder.

He only ever scored an executive pastor job once, though, in South Dakota. The article from Edinburgh's Daily Record, shared above, was faxed from the newspaper to our local newspaper in Lennox, South Dakota. When the locals found out, they terrorized us; they throw rocks at my sister, calling her "the murderer's daughter," and it was enough that my parents at that point shared the story of Elizabeth's murder and why my dad was implicated. I was 12 at that time. We had to flee to Texas to live near my mother's parents.

Of course, at that point, my parents shared it with us as if it was a big frame job; my dad was put-upon and disliked by seminary administration, according to them. But my father was emotionally and physically abusive throughout my childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood, and I finally allowed myself to consider the possibility that he had done it after I came out as gay to my parents at age 20 and he reacted with violence.

I personally reached out to CCPD a few years ago when one of my father's coworkers at a retail establishment was found dead in his home. I didn't have any evidence that my father was responsible, but a few things rang alarm bells: my dad was responsible for driving him to work the day he died, but when my dad got to his home, the guy didn't answer. Rather than informing his boss, my dad just went about his day and didn't say anything until he went the next day and there was still no answer. The guy had developmental disabilities similar to my brother's, and they were the same age; my brother was my father's favorite target for violence at home. The way my mother shared the news with my sister was just really strange, and it smacked of the language and delivery she uses when she's manipulating or hiding something. I wrote a CCPD detective saying that I had a weird feeling about this recent death and that I thought it might be possible that he was involved in Elizabeth's murder as well. As I understand it, my letter to that detective is largely responsible for the case having been recently reopened.

I don't know whether my father killed Elizabeth Mackintosh, but the man certainly has homicidal rage. He's racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and narcissistic, and he has such profound issues with authority that he can barely hold down a basic retail job. I cut off contact with both of my parents in 2014 for a number of reasons, chief among them being my realization, through therapy, that my mother had been an accessory to my father's abuse, and I was getting absolutely nothing but drama and disappointment from continuing to be in contact with either of them.

This is basically just all to say that regardless of whether he killed Elizabeth Mackintosh, the PCA is a horrible institution, as are the police, and the fact of my having been essentially born into the conditions that paved the way for her murder has shaped my entire life in ways that are difficult to explain. Church people knew throughout my childhood that things were bad at home, and no one intervened; neither did the police. I've suffered from major depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder for my entire adulthood, and though EMDR was helpful, I still have a long way to go.

I just hope that, when you discuss cases like this, you can have compassion for the innocent bystanders whose lives were ruined by every person and institution involved. The fact that I've survived to 34 is testament to my queer sensibility, and the ways that subjectivity has allowed me to see through all the patriarchal stuff that's kept this woman's family in misery and me in a state of deep ambivalence for 32 years.

Certainly, her murder was a heinous crime, but the ways I was neglected, abused, and failed utterly by institutions and people that were supposed to be there for me has resulted in a profound amount of suffering for me. I hope that, through my work towards developing a healthy relationship with her murder, and in investigating the crime, I can draw attention to the broader scope of social and religious abuse that continues to follow its superficial discussion as a run-of-the-mill whodunit.
I'll also add that one of the reasons my father was implicated at the time is because, the night before Elizabeth was murdered, he and my mom had a knock-down drag-out physical fight at home. It seems entirely within his character to take out his frustration with my mother on Elizabeth, with whom he already had a contentious relationship. There were several stand-out moments from my childhood in which he attacked either me or one of my siblings out of unresolved frustration with my mother, and I don't see why an attack on Elizabeth couldn't have been similar.
 
I'll also add that one of the reasons my father was implicated at the time is because, the night before Elizabeth was murdered, he and my mom had a knock-down drag-out physical fight at home. It seems entirely within his character to take out his frustration with my mother on Elizabeth, with whom he already had a contentious relationship. There were several stand-out moments from my childhood in which he attacked either me or one of my siblings out of unresolved frustration with my mother, and I don't see why an attack on Elizabeth couldn't have been similar.
Also, I'll clarify that, from my conversations with CCPD, the reporting that it was a pair of scissors is a complete fabrication. It was some sort of sharp tool, but they were never able to locate the weapon. A possible tool was found in my dad's tool bag, but it didn't have any evidence of having been used to murder Elizabeth. A few years ago, a student at Covenant went rummaging through the PCA Historical Library's files on the case and found some stuff about a Celtic cross pin and how that might have been used, but I really don't know much more than that.

One of the things you probably won't find in any reporting about this is that the police and paramedics really failed at the crime scene. Because she was strung up above the toilet, it looked at first glance like she had done it to herself. So paramedics stomped around the scene and washed their hands in the sink, spoiling a lot of the evidence.

CCPD really want me to give a DNA sample so they can run at least a partial match against the DNA evidence they have, but I told them I would only do it if I got an official affidavit saying they'd only use my sample for this one test, they wouldn't keep it on record, and they would destroy the sample after using it. I got no such affidavit with the test they sent, so I guess they'll have to proceed in another way.
 
Also, I'll clarify that, from my conversations with CCPD, the reporting that it was a pair of scissors is a complete fabrication. It was some sort of sharp tool, but they were never able to locate the weapon. A possible tool was found in my dad's tool bag, but it didn't have any evidence of having been used to murder Elizabeth. A few years ago, a student at Covenant went rummaging through the PCA Historical Library's files on the case and found some stuff about a Celtic cross pin and how that might have been used, but I really don't know much more than that.

One of the things you probably won't find in any reporting about this is that the police and paramedics really failed at the crime scene. Because she was strung up above the toilet, it looked at first glance like she had done it to herself. So paramedics stomped around the scene and washed their hands in the sink, spoiling a lot of the evidence.

CCPD really want me to give a DNA sample so they can run at least a partial match against the DNA evidence they have, but I told them I would only do it if I got an official affidavit saying they'd only use my sample for this one test, they wouldn't keep it on record, and they would destroy the sample after using it. I got no such affidavit with the test they sent, so I guess they'll have to proceed in another way.
Welcome to Ws @ karlsaintlucy!
Thank you for chiming in although i am sorry about the circumstances that brought you here, hope your life is happier now.
Generally i read and find information to post with an eye of bringing a little attention to cold or missing person cases and i do try to be cognizant of all the family members directly or indirectly involved.
No doubt these situations are rough on everyone.
If i voice my opinion on anything i have to add that it is my opinion or speculation to help keep facts straight and within the rules here.

BUT- if you post as a ''verified insider'' you can post what you like about the case without providing a news or police link or stating that it is your opinion (IMO)

Ws thread..
 
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i hope everyone who watched cold justice just now finds this thread to have a read
March 18 2023 rbbm
''The brutal murder of a seminary student in Creve Coeur, Missouri has gone unsolved for over 32 years.

On “Cold Justice,” airing Saturdays at 8/7c on Oxygen, former prosecutor Kelly Siegler and investigator Steve Spingola were at the scene to work the case with members of the Creve Coeur Police Department.

Elizabeth Mackintosh, 50, was a Scottish immigrant and a student at Covenant Theological Seminary, where she also worked cleaning the chapel. On the morning of March 26, 1990, she was found murdered.

“She was brutally attacked, beaten, hung in the men’s restroom, and stabbed,” said Siegler. “ …This is one of the most savage and messy and painful homicides I’ve ever heard of.”

''The cord and pieces of clothing were sent out for DNA testing, while the “Cold Justice” team reviewed the suspects with Creve Coeur officials.''
 
@karlsaintlucy , how are you doing? Did you know about the Cold Justice show?

A Verified Insider would be a help for this case.

I do understand that the Creve Coeur police weren't completely cooperative with you.

In French, Creve Coeur means broken heart -- fits this case.
 
By Stuart MacDonald 23 MAR 2023 rbbm.
1679582862395.png
''Cold case detectives probing the brutal murder of a Scottish nurse at a religious college in the US 33 years ago have identified a suspect.

Elizabeth Mackintosh, 50, was found strangled with a cord and stabbed in the neck in the toilets of a chapel at the Covenant Theological Seminary in Creve Coeur, Missouri, in March 1990. Miss Mackintosh, the daughter of a former Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland, was originally from Edinburgh and was studying at the seminary for a degree in counselling.

Police launched a major murder probe at the time of her death but no one has ever been brought to justice for the killing and the case remains unsolved. The Creve Coeur Police Department have now said they are hopeful of bringing charges against Michael Johnson, who was also a student at the seminary at the time.''

''The fresh investigation was filmed for American true crime documentary Cold Justice and showed detectives reviewing correspondence between Johnson and Miss Mackintosh days before the murder. In a memo he chastised her for not following the chain of command about the cleaning supplies. In her response, she stood up for herself and corrected spelling errors in his memo.''

1679583225244.png
Michael Johnson (left) being confronted by a cold case detective

''More than 300 students at the college campus were questioned as part of the original investigation. A psychological profile prepared by the FBI suggested Miss Mackintosh was the victim of a young male loner with low self-esteem.''
 
1679764097058.png
Elizabeth Mackintosh: Suspect identified in 33 year old cold case where Edinburgh woman was murdered

By Rachel Mackie
Published 25th Mar 2023 rbbm
''Detectives in America are hoping to soon bring charges in a 33-year-old cold case where an Edinburgh student was murdered in March 1990.

Elizabeth Mackintosh, 50, was found strangled and stabbed in the toilets of a chapel at the Covenant Theological Seminary in Creve Coeur, Missouri.''

''Officers are awaiting a decision as to whether the state will bring charges.''
1679764077696.png
Covenant Theological Seminary in Creve Coeur, Missouri.
 

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