Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[Mr Spock]

Apparently you are not aware that "cardiac arrest" absolutely is the same as no pulse. I do know the difference and I'm pretty sure Dr. Peterson does, too.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cardiac+arrest
cardiac arrest

(Medicine) failure of the pumping action of the heart, resulting in loss of consciousness and absence of pulse and breathing: a medical emergency requiring immediate resuscitative treatment

Oh dear lord, here we go again. This constant insecurity feeding the need tto be "right" ! . My easy to comprehend point was I find it unlikely your dad was without a pulse 30 minutes and posturing like Max was upon arrival. I think KZ and Dr Peterson would agree Max had little chance for survival. Since you claimed a couple months ago you worked in a trauma hospital please read current medical research or any number of KZ's links on pediatric survival rates with zero pulse (cardiac arrest) and posturing.

The deflection and misdirection by some posters even when completely wrong is just relentless and obsessive. I'm going to put a certain person on my ignore button here.

God Bless Max and Rebecca! Justice may finally be coming. The Zahaus may finally blow both your cases wide open.

 

[K_Z]

FYI--A person isn't fingerprinted unless they are charged.

JMO

Snipped for focus.

This statement is completely, thoroughly incorrect.

People are fingerprinted for literally hundreds of reasons, including routine background checks for employment. Police often fingerprint individuals during investigation of crimes as a means to rule them in or rule them out as suspects-- without charging them with anything. Of course, police also fingerprint people who are charged with crimes.

Disney even fingerprints patrons as they enter their parks, to prevent fraud with park tickets. The military fingerprints all soldiers. Fingerprinting is innocuous, and simply a biometric identifier, unless someone is worried about being found guilty of a crime.

Simply search "fingerprinting". My first Bing search returned 597,000,000 results. That's a lot of zeros.

Throwing out random, blatantly incorrect statements is an attempt to derail discussion, IMO.

 

[*Lash*]

Thank you KZ for getting this thread back on topic. I'm sorry I was apparently hijacked.

 

[K_Z]

I'm bringing over this post from the EMS thread. This is why Dr. Peterson will be such an important witness, IMO. And he certainly didn't care for Max alone-- Max had probably a dozen or more specialist physicians caring for him. And of those physicians could also speak to what was told to Jonah and Dina about Max's diagnosis and prognosis.

The very fact that so many "suicide supporters" are hanging on Dr. Peterson's ONE statement to this day, says to me that this statement was a very potent catalyst and motive for Rebecca's (IMO) murder.

I don't think any of the pediatric blunt cranial trauma statistics are unknown to him-- he is an anesthesiologist and pediatric intensivist, after all. I do think one statement he made has been taken completely out of context. For all we know, his statement about the "visible injuries" could have been made on arrival in the ED, before any imaging had been done demonstrating the severity of the head and spinal cord trauma.

Please note that this study was done by researchers at San Diego Rady Children's Hospital, and involved nearly 11,000 child victims of trauma. That is a VERY robust cohort for data. This study, and others I linked in the EMS thread are a very potent reality check about what was going on with Max and his devastating injuries in the first 24 to 48 hours. As I've said before, I am confident that measures to establish brain death were implemented very early in Max's admission to Rady-- almost certainly in the first 24-48 hours. These are the same measures (EEG, etc) that were simultaneously being implemented to establish the extent of his injuries and prognosis.

Cardiac arrest induced by blunt trauma in children.

Since 1984, all traumatically injured children in San Diego County, California, have been treated at San Diego Children's Hospital. This review encompasses 10,979 pediatric trauma patients evaluated from August 1, 1984 through September 30, 1996.

In this large metropolitan county, 65 children suffered cardiac arrest following blunt trauma. All but one of these patients died despite resuscitation. Ninety-four percent of these children died within the first 24 hours of injury. The single survivor was discharged in a vegetative state. Solid organs were obtained from 9% of the patients.

CONCLUSION: The outcome from blunt cardiac arrest in children is rapidly and nearly uniformly fatal despite resuscitation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10460086

Here is a link to the rest of the EMS thread. Lots of outcome studies about pediatric blunt cranial trauma and cardiac arrest at the scene. I'm sure Dr. Peterson is familiar with all of them, and many more.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185699"]Max Shacknai EMS Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[screecher]

Of course I expect Max's entire family to assist considering the fact that three of them are defendants.

Max's ENTIRE family???

Perhaps the entire Shacknai family will 'assist' Adam Shacknai.

But the Romano twins??? I think not. I'm willing to bet Jonah wants NOTHING to do with his son's mother. There is no reason to 'assist' her and her twin. None. He knows she's a loose cannon.

But, then again, perhaps he will 'assist' the twins...I'm pretty sure he doesn't want the truth of how Max's accident really happened to be made public.

I do imagine JS and all his helpers are going over many, many strategies. And perhaps some of those strategies do include the Romano Twins. Certainly not because JS has a good heart. But because he is content with the status quo.

I really hope Rebecca's family gets the info they need.

 

[Mr Spock]

Max's ENTIRE family???

Perhaps the entire Shacknai family will 'assist' Adam Shacknai.

But the Romano twins??? I think not. I'm willing to bet Jonah wants NOTHING to do with his son's mother. There is no reason to 'assist' her and her twin. None. He knows she's a loose cannon.

But, then again, perhaps he will 'assist' the twins...I'm pretty sure he doesn't want the truth of how Max's accident really happened to be made public.

I do imagine JS and all his helpers are going over many, many strategies. And perhaps some of those strategies do include the Romano Twins. Certainly not because JS has a good heart. But because he is content with the status quo.

I really hope Rebecca's family gets the info they need.

My prayers to the Shacknai family.

With Max being gone I doubt Dina or Nina will ever be invited to any Shacknai birthday, graduation or wedding celebration of any kind. Ever.

The only way I can imagine Jonah would communicate with Dina at this point is through an attorney.

God bless Max and Rebecca! Justice may finally be coming. Lets hope the Zahaus get your cases blown wide open.

 

[bourne]

FYI--A person isn't fingerprinted unless they are charged. A polygraph isn't evidence, especially if it is inconclusive. Nobody was charged in this case and it was ruled a suicide.

My facts are from the Sheriff himself and other LE quoted in the news media. If your version of facts is different perhaps it is because you are inventing them.

JMO

BBM. You are WRONG. And purposefully spewing out misinformation does not help your cause.

By Nina's own admission on her audio interview with CBS8 which I LINKED for your benefit in my prior post, Nina even stated that she was fingerprinted and processed by LE. Are you saying Nina was *CHARGED* with a crime relating to Rebecca's death?

Adam as well as Rebecca's then 13-y.o. teen sis XZ was also fingerprinted. So are you also saying both Adam and Rebecca, along with Nina, were *charged* with crimes?

I myself have been fingerprinted for employment, and even when I was taking a graduate entrance exam years ago. Yes, years ago for graduate school, we examtakers had to be fingerprinted. And NONE of us were charged with any crimes either.

Honestly I find it impossible to put any credence whatsoever in any of your posts. It seems you're intentionally fabricating things out of thin air without any proof, that you do little to no research on matters of discussion, you provide no links of any kind, and/or you deliberately distort other people's posts by taking things out of context to suit your agenda.

 

[bourne]

I know minors can testify, my stepdaughter had to testify against her mothers boyfriend for molesting her at 13, but in that case she was the victim. I think in other cases like a civil suit they would not be forced to testify without parental permission. I could be wrong but they couldnt even force Debra Irwin to let her kids talk to LE how would they force a minor to testify?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3509

Read up. This legal code is for child victims’ and child witnesses’ rights, and is generally also accepted for WDS cases in which minor is a defendant in suits.

 

[*Lash*]

From Nina's Interview, the DOJ agents had her fingerprinted and much more. Nina also says LE did not process Dina. Further in her interview Nina claims she was processed only because she admitted to being at the mansion that fateful night and claims Dina was not processed because she was at the hospital.

A witness w/his family claims to have seen Dina at the mansion that night. Then LE was unable to verify Dina's alibi via any of the hospital surveillance tapes, which then resulted in locating Dina via her cell phone triangulation. Even though Jonah was captured on the tapes. Two very conspicuous issues. Oddly, SDSO decided not to process Dina. I would bet most LE agencies would have put these two things together and processed this person. If just for the purpose of covering all their bases. Nope, didn't happen with SDSO. I am anxious to see if the WDS will be able to prove whether Dina was at the mansion that night and not the hospital.

CROSSTALK: Did they take fingerprints?

NINA: Yeah yeah. They took a whole thing they took fingerprints and then like whole like hand like palm prints like a hand at one time. Yeah they took everything.

CROSSTALK: Did they do that same thing to your sister, Dina, do ya know?

NINA: (pause) Uh no, they didn't.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

 

[Peaceful]

I tend to agree that Jonah won't lift a finger to help the twins.......there has to be a reason that GS & ES aren't permitted to have contact with the ex......he doesn't want the real story about max's accident to come to light.

It will be telling to see how this plays out and how involved jS becomes. I think he knows what happened to max and if I am correct, he will definitely go to great lengths to keep that information from coming out, even if that means helping the twins.

 

[MissJ]

Cardiac arrest does not always result in irreversible brain damage. My own father suffered a cardiac arrest, was revived by CPR and is still an engineer many years later. I doubt you are a better expert on Max's prognosis than the Chief of the ICU who was actually treating him.

JMO

That was NOT what I said. I said the posturing. Look up decerebrate and decorticate posturing. That is what happened to MS..the latter, that is. It is a sign of severe brain dysfunction.:twocents: I never said I was an expert. They were and knew this from the start. I don't believe they ever gave DS or JS anything but the truth. He was not going to recover. Read the stats for children who arrest following an accident and how many of them recover. In any case I agree to disagree.

 

[MissJ]

i'm bringing over this post from the ems thread. This is why dr. Peterson will be such an important witness, imo. And he certainly didn't care for max alone-- max had probably a dozen or more specialist physicians caring for him. And of those physicians could also speak to what was told to jonah and dina about max's diagnosis and prognosis.

The very fact that so many "suicide supporters" are hanging on dr. Peterson's one statement to this day, says to me that this statement was a very potent catalyst and motive for rebecca's (imo) murder.

I don't think any of the pediatric blunt cranial trauma statistics are unknown to him-- he is an anesthesiologist and pediatric intensivist, after all. I do think one statement he made has been taken completely out of context. For all we know, his statement about the "visible injuries" could have been made on arrival in the ed, before any imaging had been done demonstrating the severity of the head and spinal cord trauma.

Please note that this study was done by researchers at san diego rady children's hospital, and involved nearly 11,000 child victims of trauma. that is a very robust cohort for data. This study, and others i linked in the ems thread are a very potent reality check about what was going on with max and his devastating injuries in the first 24 to 48 hours. As i've said before, i am confident that measures to establish brain death were implemented very early in max's admission to rady-- almost certainly in the first 24-48 hours. These are the same measures (eeg, etc) that were simultaneously being implemented to establish the extent of his injuries and prognosis.

cardiac arrest induced by blunt trauma in children.







http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10460086

here is a link to the rest of the ems thread. Lots of outcome studies about pediatric blunt cranial trauma and cardiac arrest at the scene. I'm sure dr. Peterson is familiar with all of them, and many more.

max shacknai ems report - websleuths crime sleuthing community

this!

 

[MyBelle]

From Nina's Interview, the DOJ agents had her fingerprinted and much more. Nina also says LE did not process Dina. Further in her interview Nina claims she was processed only because she admitted to being at the mansion that fateful night and claims Dina was not processed because she was at the hospital.

A witness w/his family claims to have seen Dina at the mansion that night. Then LE was unable to verify Dina's alibi via any of the hospital surveillance tapes, which then resulted in locating Dina via her cell phone triangulation. Even though Jonah was captured on the tapes. Two very conspicuous issues. Oddly, SDSO decided not to process Dina. I would bet most LE agencies would have put these two things together and processed this person. If just for the purpose of covering all their bases. Nope, didn't happen with SDSO. I am anxious to see if the WDS will be able to prove whether Dina was at the mansion that night and not the hospital.

CROSSTALK: Did they take fingerprints?

NINA: Yeah yeah. They took a whole thing they took fingerprints and then like whole like hand like palm prints like a hand at one time. Yeah they took everything.

CROSSTALK: Did they do that same thing to your sister, Dina, do ya know?

NINA: (pause) Uh no, they didn't.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

In the Michelle Young murder investigation, LE fingerprinted over 50 friends and family who they knew had recently been in the house...for the same reason Nina was fingerprinted so what exactly is your point?

LE DID VERIFY Dina's alibi so why do you misrepresent that fact?

 

[MyBelle]

That was NOT what I said. I said the posturing. Look up decerebrate and decorticate posturing. That is what happened to MS..the latter, that is. It is a sign of severe brain dysfunction.:twocents: I never said I was an expert. They were and knew this from the start. I don't believe they ever gave DS or JS anything but the truth. He was not going to recover. Read the stats for children who arrest following an accident and how many of them recover. In any case I agree to disagree.

At what exact point was Max posturing? At what point did Dr. Peterson know that the posturing absolutely meant Max was brain dead? Please cite your source. Thank you.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM. You are WRONG. And purposefully spewing out misinformation does not help your cause.

By Nina's own admission on her audio interview with CBS8 which I LINKED for your benefit in my prior post, Nina even stated that she was fingerprinted and processed by LE. Are you saying Nina was *CHARGED* with a crime relating to Rebecca's death?

Adam as well as Rebecca's then 13-y.o. teen sis XZ was also fingerprinted. So are you also saying both Adam and Rebecca, along with Nina, were *charged* with crimes?

I myself have been fingerprinted for employment, and even when I was taking a graduate entrance exam years ago. Yes, years ago for graduate school, we examtakers had to be fingerprinted. And NONE of us were charged with any crimes either.

Honestly I find it impossible to put any credence whatsoever in any of your posts. It seems you're intentionally fabricating things out of thin air without any proof, that you do little to no research on matters of discussion, you provide no links of any kind, and/or you deliberately distort other people's posts by taking things out of context to suit your agenda.

Nina's voluntarily submitted fingerprints. She was not "processed" as a criminal that you keep implying. GMAB.

 

[MyBelle]

Oh dear lord, here we go again. This constant insecurity feeding the need tto be "right" ! . My easy to comprehend point was I find it unlikely your dad was without a pulse 30 minutes and posturing like Max was upon arrival. I think KZ and Dr Peterson would agree Max had little chance for survival. Since you claimed a couple months ago you worked in a trauma hospital please read current medical research or any number of KZ's links on pediatric survival rates with zero pulse (cardiac arrest) and posturing.

The deflection and misdirection by some posters even when completely wrong is just relentless and obsessive. I'm going to put a certain person on my ignore button here.

God Bless Max and Rebecca! Justice may finally be coming. The Zahaus may finally blow both your cases wide open.

I do believe Dr. Peterson is a tad more knowledgeable about Max since his education involved more than google. Dr. Peterson did speak to a detective about Max's injuries while Max was still alive. I do find it offensive that you insist I'm lying about my own father.

My dad had CPR performed for more than 30 minutes by a trained professional. CPR chest compressions allows the blood to continue to circulate. EMTs arrived within minutes of the 911 call about Max. Max had CPR by a trained professional. So, how exactly did Dr. Peterson know that "Max had little chance for survival"? Please enlighten us. Thank you.

Here is a link that explains posturing:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003299.htm
The outlook depends on the cause.

Here is a link that explains CPR:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-cpr/FA00061
CPR can keep oxygenated blood flowing to the brain and other vital organs until more definitive medical treatment can restore a normal heart rhythm.

 

[Mr Spock]

From Nina's Interview, the DOJ agents had her fingerprinted and much more. Nina also says LE did not process Dina. Further in her interview Nina claims she was processed only because she admitted to being at the mansion that fateful night and claims Dina was not processed because she was at the hospital.

A witness w/his family claims to have seen Dina at the mansion that night. Then LE was unable to verify Dina's alibi via any of the hospital surveillance tapes, which then resulted in locating Dina via her cell phone triangulation. Even though Jonah was captured on the tapes. Two very conspicuous issues. Oddly, SDSO decided not to process Dina. I would bet most LE agencies would have put these two things together and processed this person. If just for the purpose of covering all their bases. Nope, didn't happen with SDSO. I am anxious to see if the WDS will be able to prove whether Dina was at the mansion that night and not the hospital.

CROSSTALK: Did they take fingerprints?

NINA: Yeah yeah. They took a whole thing they took fingerprints and then like whole like hand like palm prints like a hand at one time. Yeah they took everything.

CROSSTALK: Did they do that same thing to your sister, Dina, do ya know?

NINA: (pause) Uh no, they didn't.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

SDSO only needs cell triangulation to verify an alibi. In fact you don't even need to be present on any hospital records or tapes by SDSO standards. Thank goodness for Dina. We know she wasn't anywhere to be "seen" at the hospital.

 

[MyBelle]

SDSO only needs cell triangulation to verify an alibi. In fact you don't even need to be present on any hospital records or tapes by SDSO standards. Thank goodness for Dina. We know she wasn't anywhere to be "seen" at the hospital.

Were you at the hospital? How do you know she wasn't seen at the hospital?
Hospitals are pretty busy places with lotsa people.

 

[Tulessa]

:thud:

 

[Zinn]

In the Michelle Young murder investigation, LE fingerprinted over 50 friends and family who they knew had recently been in the house...for the same reason Nina was fingerprinted so what exactly is your point?

LE DID VERIFY Dina's alibi so why do you misrepresent that fact?

Interesting! I hadn't heard that Nina had been recently inside the house. Do you have details on this? When exactly was Nina inside the house? TIA.