Ethiopian Air ET302, Boeing 737 crashes - 157 souls - 10 March 2019

[gregjrichards]

I’m horrified but not surprised by this terrible crash it was unfortunately inevitable. How many people have to die before action is taken to ground these Boeing 737-Max aircraft? I don’t know what the solution is for Boeing but no more people should be put in danger. If action isn’t taken to ground it then I hope passengers refuse to fly on this plane around the globe.

It will be interesting to see what is done about this situation.

 

[JanetElaine]

I’m horrified but not surprised by this terrible crash it was unfortunately inevitable. How many people have to die before action is taken to ground these Boeing 737-Max aircraft? I don’t know what the solution is for Boeing but no more people should be put in danger. If action isn’t taken to ground it then I hope passengers refuse to fly on this plane around the globe.

It will be interesting to see what is done about this situation.

(Greg! Good to see you!)

We flew on one last year. I'm keeping an eye on prices to book tickets again for this summer (Europe to US vv) and I have now added "not a 737 Max" to my (internal) search criteria.

It's ridiculous to read that after the crash last October they were supposed to come out with a software update and this hasn't happened yet! (Also according to Daily Mail link). Whether this crash has to do with it or not, that's just too long if you look at how many of these planes fly everyday and the amount of people they carry aka lives they're playing with!

 

[MsFacetious]

The cause of the disaster is not yet clear. However, the pilot had reported difficulties and had asked to return to the airport.
Ethiopian Airlines crash - events as they happened

I’m horrified but not surprised by this terrible crash it was unfortunately inevitable. How many people have to die before action is taken to ground these Boeing 737-Max aircraft? I don’t know what the solution is for Boeing but no more people should be put in danger. If action isn’t taken to ground it then I hope passengers refuse to fly on this plane around the globe.

It will be interesting to see what is done about this situation.

549 and counting.

The 2007 crash never had a cause determined, 114 souls.

The 2010 crash sounds awfully similar but they blamed the pilots.. 89 souls.

2018 crash 189 souls.

2019 crash 157 souls.

Granted, I haven't done a search for other 737 crashes. These 4 were just mentioned repeatedly so I stumbled across them. All 4 went down right after take off. I would research for more but I'm in the middle of trial prep so it'll have to wait. Hopefully there are no others I haven't seen!

 

[MsFacetious]

The pilot said he was experiencing technical problems and asked to return to the airport.

-----------------------------------------

The flight tracking website Flightradar24 tweeted that the plane had unstable vertical speed after takeoff.

------------------------------------------

.....the captain Yared Getachew had flown more than 8,000 hours with an “excellent flying record”.

“As I said, it is a brand new airplane with no technical remarks, flown by a senior pilot and there is no cause that we can attribute at this time,” he told reporters.

Ethiopian plane crash: inquiry to explore how 'excellent' pilot was unable to avert disaster

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

I am wondering which Boeing Plant this particular aircraft is manufactured at. Boeing has been around for so long that people just think they are THE DEAL when it comes to plane manufacturing. That reputation is worldwide. Most people do not realize that Boeing has gone through a LOT of changes over the last decade or so. I lived in KC for many years. Boeing has split up into several different plants around the nation over the years. Mostly because of money and tax incentives given to attract jobs in places like Seattle, WA. The original Boeing plant used for over 85 years closed in Wichita, KS. IMO the long and short of it is that there are a LOT of people working on these planes that are not all that seasoned with the same levels of experience.

JMO

{Where is CARIS?}

This particular aircraft is built in Renton, WA

 

[dotr]

Carleton University professor among dead in Ethiopian Airlines crash
"A Carleton University professor was on the flight that crashed Sunday in Ethiopia, killing everyone onboard.

Pius Adesanmi, an English professor and director of the Institute of African Studies, was one of 18 Canadians who died in the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines jet shortly after takeoff from Bole Airport in Addis Ababa. It’s believed 157 people were on the Boeing 737-8 MAX en route to Nairobi, Kenya."

"Adesanmi taught at Penn State University before coming to Carleton.

On Saturday, Adesanmi posted a picture of himself on Facebook, quoting Psalm 139:9-10: “If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.”

 

[otto]

Carleton University professor among dead in Ethiopian Airlines crash
"A Carleton University professor was on the flight that crashed Sunday in Ethiopia, killing everyone onboard.

Pius Adesanmi, an English professor and director of the Institute of African Studies, was one of 18 Canadians who died in the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines jet shortly after takeoff from Bole Airport in Addis Ababa. It’s believed 157 people were on the Boeing 737-8 MAX en route to Nairobi, Kenya."

"Adesanmi taught at Penn State University before coming to Carleton.

On Saturday, Adesanmi posted a picture of himself on Facebook, quoting Psalm 139:9-10: “If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.”

Somewhat prophetic!
I wonder how many of the 18 Canadians have more than one nationality - just curious.

 

[gregjrichards]

This is the Federal Aviation Authority Emergency Airworthiness Directive for the Boeing 737-8 Max and Boeing 737-9 Max issued after the Lion Air tragedy. This relates to the Angle of Attack sensor.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...25833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is just so sad. A few minutes ago I listened to CNN's aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo who said that while it's early days, the crash appears to have all the characteristics of the Lion Air crash. The pilot had the exact same problems as the Lion Air pilot, he asked if he could return to the airport and this was granted but obviously there wasn't enough time.

350 of these planes are operational and there are another 5,000 on order. Schiavo said that as this plane has crashed on land, she has no doubt that they will be able to get to the bottom of what is causing these crashes. She believes that it is an engineering fault with the new engine. This engine wants to raise the nose of the aircraft at the wrong time. Boeing installed something to correct this but obviously it doesn't work. Schiavo said what Boeing should have done was find out what is causing the problem and redesign the engine to correct the fault, not adding a feature to help correct it . This makes perfect sense to me.

When asked if she would fly on a Boeing 737 Max, she said "No".

 

[JudgeJudi]

"Boeing technical team will be traveling to the crash site to provide technical assistance under the direction of the Ethiopian Accident Investigations Bureau and the US National Transport Safety Board," the company said.

The National Transportation Safety Board says it is sending a team of four to assist in the investigation of the Ethiopian Airlines plane crash that killed all 157 people on board. There is no information yet about when the team may travel.

The flight lost contact at 08:44 a.m. local time, six minutes after taking off from Bole International Airport in the Ethiopian capital, and went down near Bishoftu.

Live updates: Ethiopian Airlines 737 plane crashes, killing everyone on board - CNN

 

[gregjrichards]

This is just so sad. A few minutes ago I listened to CNN's aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo who said that while it's early days, the crash appears to have all the characteristics of the Lion Air crash. The pilot had the exact same problems as the Lion Air pilot, he asked if he could return to the airport and this was granted but obviously there wasn't enough time.

350 of these planes are operational and there are another 5,000 on order. Schiavo said that as this plane has crashed on land, she has no doubt that they will be able to get to the bottom of what is causing these crashes. She believes that it is an engineering fault with the new engine. This engine wants to raise the nose of the aircraft at the wrong time. Boeing installed something to correct this but obviously it doesn't work. Schiavo said what Boeing should have done was find out what is causing the problem and redesign the engine to correct the fault, not adding a feature to help correct it . This makes perfect sense to me.

When asked if she would fly on a Boeing 737 Max, she said "No".

I have a lot of respect for Ms. Schiavo from MH370 I wish she was in charge and had the authority to ground these dangerous aircraft.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I have a lot of respect for Ms. Schiavo from MH370 I wish she was in charge and had the authority to ground these dangerous aircraft.

I like her too. She is the former Inspector General of the United States Department of Transportation (DOT), where for six years she withstood pressure from within DOT and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as she sought to expose and correct problems she perceived at the agencies. In 1997, after her stormy tenure at the DOT, she wrote Flying Blind, Flying Safe, which summed up her numerous concerns about the FAA's systemic flaws.

She stands up for what she believes in and isn’t afraid to hold back in criticising major agencies. She’s an attorney who is interested in air safety and has represented many air-crash survivors. Here's an interesting list of some of the cases she has investigated or where she has represented clients dating back as far as 1988. It's really impressive.

Aviation casework – Mary Schiavo, Transportation Lawyer and Safety Advocate

 

[enelram]

China grounding all 737-8 Max planes.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[JudgeJudi]

The CEO of Ethiopian Airlines said the airline owns 6 other 737 Max 8 aircraft but they weren't being grounded as the cause of the crash is unknown at this stage! Yikes. I wouldn't fly on one of these planes if my life depended on it because my life would surely be at risk if I did.

He said the plane “is now right inside the ground” and it was not possible to identify whether it was an emergency landing or a crash. He said there was still smoke at the site when he visited.

 

[1&2&3]

This is the Federal Aviation Authority Emergency Airworthiness Directive for the Boeing 737-8 Max and Boeing 737-9 Max issued after the Lion Air tragedy. This relates to the Angle of Attack sensor.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...25833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf

gregjrichards, glad to see you back! Just in time too to help in this tragic disaster.

Do you think this Emergency Directive issued by the FAA was helpful or useful in trying to prevent the disaster that forced this plane down?

Just my laypersons opinion, it seemed a cover my a$$ type
paper. Knowing exactly what the cause of the problem was, why were these planes not pulled and this function
disabled, overridden, or replaced?

How can a pilot perform these extra maneuvers in a plane going haywire as he is doing his best to keep the plane in the air? All in a matter of seconds.....

 

[JudgeJudi]

Weather at the time was fine with a visibility of more than 10km, with a few clouds at 2500ft, according to the Aviation Safety Network.

The Aviation Herald said the last transponder data received from the plane indicated it was flying at just over 9000ft when contact was lost.

It noted that photographs of the crash site indicated the plane had been in a deep dive.

Flightradar 24 data shows the 737 MAX 8 was climbing normally with constant speed and altitude lines when suddenly all radar and systems contact is lost. However, it points out that its ADSB coverage is limited in the area.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviatio...ifficulties-before-fatal-crash-ng-b881131043z

 

[margarita25]

Yes, another 737-800 Max!

Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 crashes - CNN

The other 737-800 Max from only FOUR months ago. This has all the background on the problem with this aircraft.

Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018

346 people are now (more than likely) dead in 4 months from this one kind of aircraft.

Here is what came out after Lion Air went down:

Boeing Issues Safety Warning After a Fatal 737 MAX Nosedive

Here is the link to the actual directive they released. Because expecting pilots to process that while their plane is NOSE DIVING is totally reasonable?!

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/83ec7f95f3e5bfbd8625833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf


I have a headache. I am SO upset right now. In that Lion Air thread we SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN. Why didn't they ground the planes and FIX THEM?!

Whoa!
If this is that same plane like the one that we talked about before where it has that faulty new anti-stall "feature" where a part of the feature thinks the plane is climbing too sharply so it forces the nose down and then when pilots try to pull the plane back up, then the feature kicks in again to force it back down. So the plane porpoises up and down like a dolphin until it crashes.

I said in the last one that authorities need to just permanently disable this new "feature" because pilots dont know how to turn it off when it starts happening. Or they dont have enough time to turn it off.

I think this is the same issue unless I am thinking of the wrong previous incident.

Too early to tell what happened right now, but it will be real interesting as the news comes out to see if this plane had similar trouble as the last one.

Keep reading.... it's absolutely nuts.
No confirmation on the cause of the crash yet, but it's an identical plane.

Ethiopian Airlines Flight Crashes Near Addis Ababa, Killing All 157 Onboard

Ethiopian Airlines Flight Crashes Near Addis Ababa, Killing All 157 Onboard

346 people dead in only 4 months on these two planes. Wow.

Yeah, its too early to tell what happened right now, but it will be real interesting as the news comes out to see if this plane had similar trouble as the last one.

Boeing 737 MAX 8 in second crash in months

The MAX versions of the 737s are touted for their LEAP jet engines which Boeing says "redefine the future of efficient and environmentally friendly air travel." Boeing says the 737 MAX jets are 10% to 12% more efficient that their predecessors.

The plane that crashed on Sunday morning was delivered to Ethiopian Airlines in November. It was one of five active MAX 8 aircrafts belonging to the airline, and another was on order, according to the website PlaneSpotters, which tracks aircraft orders.

Boeing 737 MAX 8 in second crash in months

Thanks, I wondered if it was the same plane

(Greg! Good to see you!)

We flew on one last year. I'm keeping an eye on prices to book tickets again for this summer (Europe to US vv) and I have now added "not a 737 Max" to my (internal) search criteria.

It's ridiculous to read that after the crash last October they were supposed to come out with a software update and this hasn't happened yet! (Also according to Daily Mail link). Whether this crash has to do with it or not, that's just too long if you look at how many of these planes fly everyday and the amount of people they carry aka lives they're playing with!

This is just so sad. A few minutes ago I listened to CNN's aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo who said that while it's early days, the crash appears to have all the characteristics of the Lion Air crash. The pilot had the exact same problems as the Lion Air pilot, he asked if he could return to the airport and this was granted but obviously there wasn't enough time.

350 of these planes are operational and there are another 5,000 on order. Schiavo said that as this plane has crashed on land, she has no doubt that they will be able to get to the bottom of what is causing these crashes. She believes that it is an engineering fault with the new engine. This engine wants to raise the nose of the aircraft at the wrong time. Boeing installed something to correct this but obviously it doesn't work. Schiavo said what Boeing should have done was find out what is causing the problem and redesign the engine to correct the fault, not adding a feature to help correct it . This makes perfect sense to me.

When asked if she would fly on a Boeing 737 Max, she said "No".

Here is the link for the other Lion Air Crash thread / can be useful by quoting from there, copying there and pasting here for any comparative analysis, etc.:

Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018

 

[gregjrichards]

China Asks Local Airlines to Ground Boeing 737 Max, Caijing Says

“China asked domestic airlines to temporarily ground Boeing Co. 737 Max jets after a model operated by Ethiopian Airlines crashed on Sunday, Caijing reported, citing an unidentified industry participant.”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I hope this is done internationally. Info from Airliners.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Mary Schiavo said, "It's highly suspicious. Here we have a brand new aircraft that's gone down twice in a year. That rings alarm bells in the aviation industry, because that just doesn't happen".

While the Ethiopian Airlines plane didn't see the wild fluctuations in altitude that the Lion Air flight saw, it did dip and then regain altitude before it crashed. With the Lion Air crash, the new safety system that automatically pulls the plane's nose down if data shows it is at risk appears to be at the root of the crash. In that flight the system responded to faulty data that suggested the nose was tilted at a higher angle than it was, indicating that the plane was at risk of stalling.

If investigators discover a link between the two crashes, the repercussions for Boeing could be dramatic resulting in the MAX 8 being grounded.

Deadly Ethiopia crash is Boeing plane's second disaster in months

 

[margarita25]

China Asks Local Airlines to Ground Boeing 737 Max, Caijing Says

“China asked domestic airlines to temporarily ground Boeing Co. 737 Max jets after a model operated by Ethiopian Airlines crashed on Sunday, Caijing reported, citing an unidentified industry participant.”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I hope this is done internationally. Info from Airliners.

Additionally from the above link:

“A blanket grounding in one of the world’s biggest and influential travel markets is a further blow to Boeing’s reputation -- and a potential threat to the Chicago-based planemaker’s finances. Chinese carriers account for about 20 percent of 737 Max deliveries worldwide through January, according to the company’s website.“

(It’s so great to see you, gregjrichards (of course not under the circumstances of a plane crash) Hugs to you!)