Evidence connecting JR, CWW and/or MS to one another. How/when do their paths cross?

[Dushi]

Or maybe MS learned something that put her life in danger? Do we know where MS was in '96? From the article connecting CWW to RB I get the impression that there was a small group of techie meth users/sellers wreaking havoc. MS doesn't comfortably fit into that group in my mind. How could he remain so squeaky clean all these years if he hung tightly in that crowd? Maybe I'm still in denial?

Yeah, me too
Why not kill MS?
Unless that would be direct path back to all of this
My head hurts

 

[Paulas88]

Or maybe MS learned something that put her life in danger? Do we know where MS was in '96? From the article connecting CWW to RB I get the impression that there was a small group of techie meth users/sellers wreaking havoc. MS doesn't comfortably fit into that group in my mind. How could he remain so squeaky clean all these years if he hung tightly in that crowd? Maybe I'm still in denial?

He was CWW's best man at his May wedding, and a professed brother on MS's FB.

 

[human]

I ASSume that we all make friendship mistakes. Making friends with people who turn out to be not so decent of people.

MS has been friends with CWW for decades. To me, birds of a feather.

I know of a criminal in my neighborhood who has never been busted. He knows how to keep his hands clean.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Curtis Wayne Wright, Jimmy Ray Rodgers... three names. Sometimes when you're sleuthing names, you get too many results so you winnow it down by adding the middle (third) name,, but in this case, there are SO many other people (unrelated I presume) with the same three names, it's still difficult. Some of the people are in different states, but there are some with the same names in both Florida and Missouri - confusing.

Add to that, the intertwining (the roots and branches - great analogy LvsAMystry!) of relationships. Some relationships by blood and others just by being in each others back pockets - friends, brotherly, mentor, employer/employee, neighbor...

Need a seating chart. *whew*

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Curtis Wayne Wright, Jimmy Ray Rodgers... three names. Sometimes when you're sleuthing names, you get too many results so you winnow it down by adding the middle (third) name,, but in this case, there are SO many other people (unrelated I presume) with the same three names, it's still difficult. Some of the people are in different states, but there are some with the same names in both Florida and Missouri - confusing.

There are other Mark Douglas Sievers, other Stacy Sievers...

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

 

[1&2&3]

Sorry, I have to say this. We knew CWW was not a good person from all that has been published.

But how low can you go to have dated your current wife's aunt? His mother-in-law's sister. This just freaked me out!!

 

[SeesSeas]

Sorry, I have to say this. We knew CWW was not a good person from all that has been published.

But how low can you go to have dated your current wife's aunt? His mother-in-law's sister. This just freaked me out!!

I thought it was MS who dated CWW's current wife's aunt. Not CWW. Someone needs to post a chart please.

 

[SeesSeas]

Sorry, I have to say this. We knew CWW was not a good person from all that has been published.

But how low can you go to have dated your current wife's aunt? His mother-in-law's sister. This just freaked me out!!

I thought it was MS who dated CWW's current wife's aunt. Not CWW. Someone needs to post a chart please.

Hoping misinformation doesn’t grow legs….. so here is the MSM link and quote:
http://www.news-press.com/story/new...ght-mother-law-sievers-link-deep-mo/72633014/

Karen Wideman said Tuesday that her daughter Angela Wideman Wright, 42, dated Wright, 47, more than 24 years ago and reconnected with him about a year and a half ago at a church function. They were married in Missouri in May, with Teresa Sievers' husband, Mark, presiding as the best man.

Wideman, 60, said her family has known Mark Sievers for more than 20 years. "I haven't talked to him since he was engaged to my little sister (Shelly) about 24 years ago."

 

[creepingskills]

Just going to throw some speculation out there regarding JR and culpability. :twocents:
I'll add links where appropriate after I make some progress at my day job.

From what you guys have uncovered, and what's been reported through MSM, JR had a rough life. Please understand I'm not making excuses, in any, shape, or form for the heinous acts committed by JR.

We [think we] know:

- JR's mom died when he was 10, father died when he was 17;

- Around the death of his father, JR fled the scene of a car accident; and as a minor, tried to buy alcohol & cigs; and received probation for Resisting Arrest/Detention/Stop By Fleeing - Creating A Substantial Risk Of Serious Injury/Death To Any Person { Felony D RSMo: 575.150 } someone please correct me if this is wrong!

- 2007 JR lived with his older brother during probation period; terms of probation included orders to attend high school, obey wishes of brother, remove all guns from residence; therapy

- JR's probation revoked for gun violation; felon in possession of a firearm at brother's residence;

- JR met CWW in jail while awaiting trial (2010/2011?);

- JR's brother (with whom he was living before prison) moves out of state probably during summer 2014;

- JR was released from jail in September 2014;

- May 2015 JR attends CWW's wedding;

- June 2015 JR tells employer he is helping his brother celebrate graduating law school, driving to FL;

- JR took his cell phone to FL, spoke with his employer and confirmed his location truthfully;

- JR was seen on video at Walmart before the Walmart and that CWW was 'with him' (this could mean CWW waited in the parking lot);

- JR's gf allegedly told her friend, who told MSM, that JW expected to make $10k that weekend;

- JR & gf have a new (to them) minivan. IMO, the van's bluebook value is <$10k;

- SMS said the killers really tried to 'cover their tracks''

- JR's neighbors said 'Rodgers claimed to be a hit man.' &#8220;I went over to his trailer a couple times, sat with him, he always talked about how he was wanted by the feds,&#8221; said Lake, who also said he never asked Rodgers&#8217; why he was wanted by the feds."

IMO, ^ paints a picture of a troubled young man. I don't think he was a hit man, at least not before TS's murder. When would he have had the time? As a minor? When he was released in Sept 2014? While his brother may have gained direction and strength from adversity, JR clearly went the other route and eventually landed himself a felony conviction and prison time. Unfortunately he met CWW along the way.

Upon JR's release, I'd imagine it was hard for him to come home to no parents, no brother (at least, still living in Missouri). And per the terms of his probation, he can't leave the state without permission. He's a young felon with no support system and his only family member has created a new life far away. IMO, the hit man talk was an attempt to impress his neighbors. It sounds much cooler to say "the feds want me, I'm a hit man" than it does to say "I violated my probation stemming from fleeing the scene of a car accident".

Perhaps CWW started filling in for the brotherly role JR needed, and in return JR helped CWW with transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if CWW promised JR a new van, not $10k, as payment for the FL trip. Who knows if CWW planned this from the beginning in order to manipulate JR to serve CWW's purposes. JR would have been a vulnerable target, for sure. Maybe the story told to JR's employers about a trip with his 'brother' was some kind of freudian slip.

Here's what I don't understand:

Why would JR be so stupid - taking his cell to FL, telling his employer about traveling to FL, if he was intending to participate in a hit? PRESUMABLY he was with CWW the entire time, so did CWW overhear this conversation between JR and employer? Why wouldn't he tell JR to shh?

Why would CWW let JR keep evidence of their crimes? Especially if CWW knew about JR's propensity to brag?

Why did JR tell his gf where the jumpsuit was hidden? Why didn't he burn the jumpsuit? Also, didn't LE rule out any wrong doing by the gf, calling her very brave to come forward? JMO, what if CWW planned to take JR with him all along as a scape goat? Did CWW know about JR's hammer nickname and that's why a hammer was used? It seems to me like JR knew he was going to be partaking in an illegal 'job' but did not know it would be a murder.

I really do wonder if JR's job assigned by CWW was to drive (like he usually did for CWW), get the jumpsuit, go to Walmart, and man the "jammer" device used to disengage the alarm. CWW completes the job, tells JR to get rid of the bloody jumpsuit either along the route home or when they get back to MO. JR sees the blood, either infers or was told by CWW that there was a murder. JR would've been in way over his head by now. Maybe CWW told him about the woodchipper incident. JR is smart enough to save CWW's jumpsuit, to ensure his own safety (and as proof he didn't do the killing?). JR had access to jumpsuits, so maybe he burned not 'the' jumpsuit and outsmarted CWW.

July 12 raid happens. CWW would have been on high alert. Maybe threats were made, and that led JR to tell the gf about where the jumpsuit was, and she in turn told her parents. A few things here; if the jumpsuit incriminated JR...why wouldn't he burn it? For a 'trophy'? You don't bury trophies, you bury something you want to hide. If JR told the gf he wore the jumpsuit...would she tell her parents? I think she was scared, she knew CWW, and she had recently been told by JR about what really happened in FL and put it all together.

It sounds crazy, I know, but for some reason my intuition tells me CWW saw JR's June 16 post re: hammer and thought to himself, oh what a perfect plot - I'll use a hammer and JR will drive and tell work he's going to FL where he will be on video at Walmart, and if the plan falls apart, all signs obviously point away from CWW and to JR. Except, CWW didn't realize he had been duped about the destruction of the jumpsuit.

ETA: IIRC TS was bludgeoned 27 times with the hammer. Overkill, personal. Who had a more personal connection to TS? CWW. Time will tell, but I would be surprised if JR was capable of such violence when a) he didn't know the victim b) had no motive but $/van c) has no history of violence. CWW, on the other hand, a) knew TS b) had a motive (helping MS) c) has a history of rumored violence (Bolin murder, firing at his car window).

 

[Riversinthedesert]

Just going to throw some speculation out there regarding JR and culpability. :twocents:
I'll add links where appropriate after I make some progress at my day job.

From what you guys have uncovered, and what's been reported through MSM, JR had a rough life. Please understand I'm not making excuses, in any, shape, or form for the heinous acts committed by JR.

We [think we] know:

- JR's mom died when he was 10, father died when he was 17;

- Around the death of his father, JR fled the scene of a car accident; and as a minor, tried to buy alcohol & cigs; and received probation for Resisting Arrest/Detention/Stop By Fleeing - Creating A Substantial Risk Of Serious Injury/Death To Any Person { Felony D RSMo: 575.150 } someone please correct me if this is wrong!

- 2007 JR lived with his older brother during probation period; terms of probation included orders to attend high school, obey wishes of brother, remove all guns from residence; therapy

- JR's probation revoked for gun violation; felon in possession of a firearm at brother's residence;

- JR met CWW in jail while awaiting trial (2010/2011?);

- JR's brother (with whom he was living before prison) moves out of state probably during summer 2014;

- JR was released from jail in September 2014;

- May 2015 JR attends CWW's wedding;

- June 2015 JR tells employer he is helping his brother celebrate graduating law school, driving to FL;

- JR took his cell phone to FL, spoke with his employer and confirmed his location truthfully;

- JR was seen on video at Walmart before the Walmart and that CWW was 'with him' (this could mean CWW waited in the parking lot);

- JR's gf allegedly told her friend, who told MSM, that JW expected to make $10k that weekend;

- JR & gf have a new (to them) minivan. IMO, the van's bluebook value is <$10k;

- SMS said the killers really tried to 'cover their tracks''

- JR's neighbors said 'Rodgers claimed to be a hit man.' &#8220;I went over to his trailer a couple times, sat with him, he always talked about how he was wanted by the feds,&#8221; said Lake, who also said he never asked Rodgers&#8217; why he was wanted by the feds."

IMO, ^ paints a picture of a troubled young man. I don't think he was a hit man, at least not before TS's murder. When would he have had the time? As a minor? When he was released in Sept 2014? While his brother may have gained direction and strength from adversity, JR clearly went the other route and eventually landed himself a felony conviction and prison time. Unfortunately he met CWW along the way.

Upon JR's release, I'd imagine it was hard for him to come home to no parents, no brother (at least, still living in Missouri). And per the terms of his probation, he can't leave the state without permission. He's a young felon with no support system and his only family member has created a new life far away. IMO, the hit man talk was an attempt to impress his neighbors. It sounds much cooler to say "the feds want me, I'm a hit man" than it does to say "I violated my probation stemming from fleeing the scene of a car accident".

Perhaps CWW started filling in for the brotherly role JR needed, and in return JR helped CWW with transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if CWW promised JR a new van, not $10k, as payment for the FL trip. Who knows if CWW planned this from the beginning in order to manipulate JR to serve CWW's purposes. JR would have been a vulnerable target, for sure. Maybe the story told to JR's employers about a trip with his 'brother' was some kind of freudian slip.

Here's what I don't understand:

Why would JR be so stupid - taking his cell to FL, telling his employer about traveling to FL, if he was intending to participate in a hit? PRESUMABLY he was with CWW the entire time, so did CWW overhear this conversation between JR and employer? Why wouldn't he tell JR to shh?

Why would CWW let JR keep evidence of their crimes? Especially if CWW knew about JR's propensity to brag?

Why did JR tell his gf where the jumpsuit was hidden? Why didn't he burn the jumpsuit? Also, didn't LE rule out any wrong doing by the gf, calling her very brave to come forward? JMO, what if CWW planned to take JR with him all along as a scape goat? Did CWW know about JR's hammer nickname and that's why a hammer was used? It seems to me like JR knew he was going to be partaking in an illegal 'job' but did not know it would be a murder.

I really do wonder if JR's job assigned by CWW was to drive (like he usually did for CWW), get the jumpsuit, go to Walmart, and man the "jammer" device used to disengage the alarm. CWW completes the job, tells JR to get rid of the bloody jumpsuit either along the route home or when they get back to MO. JR sees the blood, either infers or was told by CWW that there was a murder. JR would've been in way over his head by now. Maybe CWW told him about the woodchipper incident. JR is smart enough to save CWW's jumpsuit, to ensure his own safety (and as proof he didn't do the killing?). JR had access to jumpsuits, so maybe he burned not 'the' jumpsuit and outsmarted CWW.

July 12 raid happens. CWW would have been on high alert. Maybe threats were made, and that led JR to tell the gf about where the jumpsuit was, and she in turn told her parents. A few things here; if the jumpsuit incriminated JR...why wouldn't he burn it? For a 'trophy'? You don't bury trophies, you bury something you want to hide. If JR told the gf he wore the jumpsuit...would she tell her parents? I think she was scared, she knew CWW, and she had recently been told by JR about what really happened in FL and put it all together.

It sounds crazy, I know, but for some reason my intuition tells me CWW saw JR's June 16 post re: hammer and thought to himself, oh what a perfect plot - I'll use a hammer and JR will drive and tell work he's going to FL where he will be on video at Walmart, and if the plan falls apart, all signs obviously point away from CWW and to JR. Except, CWW didn't realize he had been duped about the destruction of the jumpsuit.

ETA: IIRC TS was bludgeoned 27 times with the hammer. Overkill, personal. Who had a more personal connection to TS? CWW. Time will tell, but I would be surprised if JR was capable of such violence when a) he didn't know the victim b) had no motive but $/van c) has no history of violence. CWW, on the other hand, a) knew TS b) had a motive (helping MS) c) has a history of rumored violence (Bolin murder, firing at his car window).

Thanks for that terrific case summary creepingskills. That will be very helpful to those sleuthers new to this forum.

 

[SurfieTX]

Thanks for that terrific case summary creepingskills. That will be very helpful to those sleuthers new to this forum.

I'm going to nominate it for post of the day, creepingskills! That was a wonderfully well thought out post.

 

[relay]

I'm going to nominate it for post of the day, creepingskills! That was a wonderfully well thought out post.

I second that!

 

[FelicityLemon]

Not sure what it means or if it means anything, but it piqued my interest: JR's gf status says "in a relationship" and it's not an oversight since she's updated her account numerous times in addition to deleting lots of posts.

 

[No it's not]

Just going to throw some speculation out there regarding JR and culpability. :twocents:
I'll add links where appropriate after I make some progress at my day job.

From what you guys have uncovered, and what's been reported through MSM, JR had a rough life. Please understand I'm not making excuses, in any, shape, or form for the heinous acts committed by JR.

We [think we] know:

- JR's mom died when he was 10, father died when he was 17;

- Around the death of his father, JR fled the scene of a car accident; and as a minor, tried to buy alcohol & cigs; and received probation for Resisting Arrest/Detention/Stop By Fleeing - Creating A Substantial Risk Of Serious Injury/Death To Any Person { Felony D RSMo: 575.150 } someone please correct me if this is wrong!

- 2007 JR lived with his older brother during probation period; terms of probation included orders to attend high school, obey wishes of brother, remove all guns from residence; therapy

- JR's probation revoked for gun violation; felon in possession of a firearm at brother's residence;

- JR met CWW in jail while awaiting trial (2010/2011?);

- JR's brother (with whom he was living before prison) moves out of state probably during summer 2014;

- JR was released from jail in September 2014;

- May 2015 JR attends CWW's wedding;

- June 2015 JR tells employer he is helping his brother celebrate graduating law school, driving to FL;

- JR took his cell phone to FL, spoke with his employer and confirmed his location truthfully;

- JR was seen on video at Walmart before the Walmart and that CWW was 'with him' (this could mean CWW waited in the parking lot);

- JR's gf allegedly told her friend, who told MSM, that JW expected to make $10k that weekend;

- JR & gf have a new (to them) minivan. IMO, the van's bluebook value is <$10k;

- SMS said the killers really tried to 'cover their tracks''

- JR's neighbors said 'Rodgers claimed to be a hit man.' “I went over to his trailer a couple times, sat with him, he always talked about how he was wanted by the feds,” said Lake, who also said he never asked Rodgers’ why he was wanted by the feds."

IMO, ^ paints a picture of a troubled young man. I don't think he was a hit man, at least not before TS's murder. When would he have had the time? As a minor? When he was released in Sept 2014? While his brother may have gained direction and strength from adversity, JR clearly went the other route and eventually landed himself a felony conviction and prison time. Unfortunately he met CWW along the way.

Upon JR's release, I'd imagine it was hard for him to come home to no parents, no brother (at least, still living in Missouri). And per the terms of his probation, he can't leave the state without permission. He's a young felon with no support system and his only family member has created a new life far away. IMO, the hit man talk was an attempt to impress his neighbors. It sounds much cooler to say "the feds want me, I'm a hit man" than it does to say "I violated my probation stemming from fleeing the scene of a car accident".

Perhaps CWW started filling in for the brotherly role JR needed, and in return JR helped CWW with transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if CWW promised JR a new van, not $10k, as payment for the FL trip. Who knows if CWW planned this from the beginning in order to manipulate JR to serve CWW's purposes. JR would have been a vulnerable target, for sure. Maybe the story told to JR's employers about a trip with his 'brother' was some kind of freudian slip.

Here's what I don't understand:

Why would JR be so stupid - taking his cell to FL, telling his employer about traveling to FL, if he was intending to participate in a hit? PRESUMABLY he was with CWW the entire time, so did CWW overhear this conversation between JR and employer? Why wouldn't he tell JR to shh?

Why would CWW let JR keep evidence of their crimes? Especially if CWW knew about JR's propensity to brag?

Why did JR tell his gf where the jumpsuit was hidden? Why didn't he burn the jumpsuit? Also, didn't LE rule out any wrong doing by the gf, calling her very brave to come forward? JMO, what if CWW planned to take JR with him all along as a scape goat? Did CWW know about JR's hammer nickname and that's why a hammer was used? It seems to me like JR knew he was going to be partaking in an illegal 'job' but did not know it would be a murder.

I really do wonder if JR's job assigned by CWW was to drive (like he usually did for CWW), get the jumpsuit, go to Walmart, and man the "jammer" device used to disengage the alarm. CWW completes the job, tells JR to get rid of the bloody jumpsuit either along the route home or when they get back to MO. JR sees the blood, either infers or was told by CWW that there was a murder. JR would've been in way over his head by now. Maybe CWW told him about the woodchipper incident. JR is smart enough to save CWW's jumpsuit, to ensure his own safety (and as proof he didn't do the killing?). JR had access to jumpsuits, so maybe he burned not 'the' jumpsuit and outsmarted CWW.

July 12 raid happens. CWW would have been on high alert. Maybe threats were made, and that led JR to tell the gf about where the jumpsuit was, and she in turn told her parents. A few things here; if the jumpsuit incriminated JR...why wouldn't he burn it? For a 'trophy'? You don't bury trophies, you bury something you want to hide. If JR told the gf he wore the jumpsuit...would she tell her parents? I think she was scared, she knew CWW, and she had recently been told by JR about what really happened in FL and put it all together.

It sounds crazy, I know, but for some reason my intuition tells me CWW saw JR's June 16 post re: hammer and thought to himself, oh what a perfect plot - I'll use a hammer and JR will drive and tell work he's going to FL where he will be on video at Walmart, and if the plan falls apart, all signs obviously point away from CWW and to JR. Except, CWW didn't realize he had been duped about the destruction of the jumpsuit.

ETA: IIRC TS was bludgeoned 27 times with the hammer. Overkill, personal. Who had a more personal connection to TS? CWW. Time will tell, but I would be surprised if JR was capable of such violence when a) he didn't know the victim b) had no motive but $/van c) has no history of violence. CWW, on the other hand, a) knew TS b) had a motive (helping MS) c) has a history of rumored violence (Bolin murder, firing at his car window).

Excellent summary! And this, yes:

It sounds crazy, I know, but for some reason my intuition tells me CWW saw JR's June 16 post re: hammer and thought to himself, oh what a perfect plot - I'll use a hammer and JR will drive and tell work he's going to FL where he will be on video at Walmart, and if the plan falls apart, all signs obviously point away from CWW and to JR. Except, CWW didn't realize he had been duped about the destruction of the jumpsuit.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Thanks for that terrific case summary creepingskills. That will be very helpful to those sleuthers new to this forum.

Super helpful!! Thank you. And thanks to everyone for encouraging me to get stuck into this case, you're all right - the more I read the more I want to, I think it's the Sunshine Laws that swung it

 

[creepingskills]

I'm going to nominate it for post of the day, creepingskills! That was a wonderfully well thought out post.

:blushing: aw, thank you! Just stringing together the pieces gathered by everyone here. IMO, I think we may come to find that JR is more of an accessory before and/or after the crime. SMS said something about participants 'before and after' and I think he may have been alluding to JR. I don't think, by any means, that JR is a victim - he had free will, is an adult. But I can't shake the facts; ZERO history of violence, or drugs. He was, by all accounts, a dependable employee and probably thankful for his job, his girlfriend. He was going to be a father, perhaps finally feeling like he had a family again. Not to say he was on the straight and narrow, but he was on the right path. Compare CWW's history; did he ever attempt to get on the right path? Find legitimate employment? CWW probably never worked a full day in his life.

Everyone looks at things through a screen tainted by their own experience. I see a young man who had no stability in his formative years. His older brother took on parenting a teenager to the best of his ability. And I really do wonder what, exactly, happened with the probation violation.
If we give JR and his brother full benefit of the doubt, in 2007 JR's dad dies; leaves large gun collection to sons; JR gets in trouble for fleeing accident, receives probation, the terms include 'supervision by brother' & 'remove all firearms from house'; JR moves in with brother; probation officer obtains information re: guns in brother's residence; JR violates probation. I see from the docket that JR retained private counsel to defend against the probation violation. I'm going to guess JR's brother arranged for private counsel to represent his JR. JR receives federal prison sentence.

JR's brother later goes on to attend law school. Did the events leading up to JR's prison sentence motivate the brother to attend law school? What I'm getting at is that we don't know the facts of this particular (important) part of JR's life. He may not have had access to those guns, maybe the brother was super responsible and kept them in gun safes and neither knew that the (brother's) guns would result in a federal prison sentence for JR since the brother lawfully possessed the guns.

 

[human]

I can see CWW being a total user of others. He sees a vulnerable guy-- JR and uses him.

I don't think JR is so pure though. Federal prison is probably not as bad as regular, but I bet he met some sketchy people there

 

[creepingskills]

I can see CWW being a total user of others. He sees a vulnerable guy-- JR and uses him.

I don't think JR is so pure though. Federal prison is probably not as bad as regular, but I bet he met some sketchy people there

No doubt, and I think JR's 'hit man' narrative was born in prison (possibly to appear tougher than he is/was). However, it doesn't appear that JR tried to capitalize off his prison connections after release. Career criminals usually can't hold down a job, they're too entitled and mixed up in the criminal underworld. Always looking for the next scam, opportunity. If I had to guess, I'd say JR had a hard time in prison emotionally. I think he saw how much life he missed out on while locked away.

JR had no problem working hard for an honest day's pay. Not to say he wouldn't take a bonus from CWW, I'm just pointing out that he didn't appear to take an illegal shortcut for money right after prison like some felons do, he sought and maintained a normal, labor intensive job. Illegal acts certainly pay more for less work. And IIRC, there was talk of JR receiving training in irons works? Or something like that, welding? He was learning a trade, bettering himself, trying to move away from the label of FELON, criminal, troubled kid.

And completely JMO, and entirely irrelevant but I couldn't help notice how JR was the most dressed up at CWW's wedding. A sign of respect, not only to CWW but for himself, his future self maybe? JR mentioned to his employers about how his 'brother' was going to buy him a new wardrobe. Super strange thing to say and lie about. If he was truly expecting clothes (from CWW or MS:thinking and was excited, isn't that a little bit sad?

 

[human]

No doubt, and I think JR's 'hit man' narrative was born in prison (possibly to appear tougher than he is/was). However, it doesn't appear that JR tried to capitalize off his prison connections after release. Career criminals usually can't hold down a job, they're too entitled and mixed up in the criminal underworld. Always looking for the next scam, opportunity. If I had to guess, I'd say JR had a hard time in prison emotionally. I think he saw how much life he missed out on while locked away.

JR had no problem working hard for an honest day's pay. Not to say he wouldn't take a bonus from CWW, I'm just pointing out that he didn't appear to take an illegal shortcut for money right after prison like some felons do, he sought and maintained a normal, labor intensive job. Illegal acts certainly pay more for less work. And IIRC, there was talk of JR receiving training in irons works? Or something like that, welding? He was learning a trade, bettering himself, trying to move away from the label of FELON, criminal, troubled kid.

And completely JMO, and entirely irrelevant but I couldn't help notice how JR was the most dressed up at CWW's wedding. A sign of respect, not only to CWW but for himself, his future self maybe? JR mentioned to his employers about how his 'brother' was going to buy him a new wardrobe. Super strange thing to say and lie about. If he was truly expecting clothes (from CWW or MS:thinking and was excited, isn't that a little bit sad?

Interesting points for sure. A father figure-- CWW gets JR to drive to Florida. It could be that that JR did not know what was going down.

Why does CWW need transporation? I don't mean for driving to Florida which is a long way. But in general?

 

[beach]

creepingskills, you freaking rock!
I hereby shamelessly and publicly confess I have a WS crush on you. :loveyou:


Anybody who has known me for any length of time will tell you I have a super soft spot heartluv and deep respect for a helluva good sleuth. Even more true of one who's willing consider all the findings and put such careful thought into reading between the lines to come up with such credible interpretations.


You remind me of my "good ol days" when I had the time to spend sleuthing instead of mod'g and tending to admin duties. I miss those days so much. ahhh, feeling so nostalgic here.


fwiw, I am in total agreement. I think JR was their (yes, CWW & MS) targeted fall guy. He was a pretty obvious target for them. He wasn't nearly as skilled, practiced and adept as the experienced CWW but potentially trainable. CWW must have thought he showed promise and, after all, somebody had to be the fall guy to protect the brotherhood. I mean, just in case things didn't go quite as planned. Agree, he is not a victim but, I too believe, he was manipulated by others far smarter, savvier and more experienced than himself.