Evidence for "Dead body in the Damn Car"

[LambChop]

There may or may not have been a dead body in the dam car! Whether there was or was not, it does not provide us with conclusive proof that Casey killed Caylee.

Some of the problems with the evidence are that the tow yard guy states that the trash bag from the trunk had a yellow handle, and the one in the evidence picture has blue handles. There are two white bags in the photo of the towyard dumpster but we cannot see the handles of the second bag. The dumpster itself has some pretty murky looking gunk in the bottom.

There was a receipt in the bag from the nightclub belonging to NL, TL's roommate. The bag was from TL's apartment.

 

[Phumi]

Hi knt

Do you have a link for that at all? Since I have started posting here I am beginning to realise that I have missed quite a few documents.

TIA

I'm trying to link Docstoc for you, IG, but it's not cooperating. If you google
Casey anthony Cupid.com profile, there are many links to her dating profile.

 

[InspectorGadget]

With respect this is just pure speculation, right? An Urban Myth?

The only inference that we have that there was any waste food is from HL when on NG and no samples were taken, no documentation, no testing, he didn't even return to complete his examination.

So based on an inference we are running [again] with meat and cheese and trying to scale it from trace (an ounce) to a larger and larger amount that we 'speculate' someone dumped in the trash.

There is no basis in discovery documentation or reported lab tests for this speculation. This thread has become the Rumor Thread.

We have already discussed and concluded over and over about what caused the dead body smell in the trunk --- and tests have even been performed with pizza!!!!!

Does everyone agree that we are flogging a dead horse with some desperation -- the Defense badly needs the trunk to be rotten potatoes. It is just an Urban Myth.

It was a precious little two year old named Caylee if you care to read the whole thread and not exclude the facts along the way.

The wheels on the trunk go round and round, round and round, round and round.

Hell Cyberborg

It is also speculation that there was a dead body in the car.

I have not stated that there was food in the bag when it was taken out of the trunk.

Can you explain to me why the maggots left the dead body and went to camp in another bag that didn't have any food in it?

 

[TakeNote]

the paper towels had grave wax on them....the flies went to that

 

[Phumi]

the paper towels had grave wax on them....the flies went to that

Gosh...why do I feel like we've all had this conversation before! LOL!

 

[LambChop]

Hell Cyberborg

It is also speculation that there was a dead body in the car.

I have not stated that there was food in the bag when it was taken out of the trunk.

Can you explain to me why the maggots left the dead body and went to camp in another bag that didn't have any food in it?

Sorry I do not believe there is any speculation since the remains of Caylee was found as she did not walk to the site or place herself in the bags, etc. The body actually left the maggots if they were in the trunk when the body was removed, I would imagine. We don't need an expert to determine that. The insects were then drawn to the papertowel/napkins in the garbage bag which contained decomposition material.

It is all here in the various information threads and very interesting reading, it just takes some time to catch up but certainly worthwhile. So instead of anyone saying I just don't get it, or I don't believe there was a dead body in the trunk, go back and read these threads and you will understand. We all had to do it to get to this point and it was certainly worth the time and effort. If you don't want to take the time then the information provided from the experts here certainly backs up the reports and can be trusted.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Greetings again and GREAT thought-provoking questions!

Reading the FBI doc: they state that they have retained the proximal end under glass (MY INTERPRETATION: FOR court presentation & further evaluation as needed, ie defense team) The remaining strand was submitted for stereo & comparison microscopy with the limited evaluation of "similiarity" as the exemplar comparison was not within acceptable standards (NO WE WILL NOT RE-VISIT THE SEMANTICS ISSUE!). Then they did mtDNA testing on the strand and compared it with a known sample of CASEY's hair as the mtDNA demonstrated maternal lineage, and this is where they find the hair belongs to a female decendant of that lineage but the microscopy & physical evaluation concluded that it was not of an adult member but of a member who was young and had never chemically treated the hair.


?would the roots of naturally shed hairs decompose in the same way albeit without the "death band"?

Scientifically the answer is NO because the requisite body proteins & emzymes and the subsequent bacteria that devour them are no longer present when the hair is "gone with the wind" in the environment.

Hope this helps vs confuses the issue

Thank you Joypath

I wasn't going to revisit this and I promise I am not going to split any more hairs with you from now on LOL!

But just one last question. Since the FBI lab did not do nuclear DNA testing on the root end, doesn't this indicate that they don't have the root? How can they tell which end is the proximal end, and how close the piece of hair that they have was to the root?:waitasec:

 

[LambChop]

Gosh...why do I feel like we've all had this conversation before! LOL!

Do you sometimes feel you're in grammar school and someone is asking to copy your homework?

 

[Marina2]

Hell Cyberborg

It is also speculation that there was a dead body in the car.

I have not stated that there was food in the bag when it was taken out of the trunk.

Can you explain to me why the maggots left the dead body and went to camp in another bag that didn't have any food in it?

Bold is mine.

http://www.forensicflies.com/maggot_behavior.htm

This article explains a "migrating maggot mass" and why they leave their food source after their third phase of development.

"Their intention is to find a safe location where they can form a pupa. For many species, this not only requires migrating away from the body but also burrowing below the surface of the ground. If indoors and unable to bury, they will often seek secluded places along baseboards and under the edges of carpets and rugs."

I don't think the maggots found in the trunk left a dead body but likely hatched after the body was removed. I'll have to read more on the life cycle of a maggot. :waitasec:

 

[TakeNote]

you all are just tooo smart ....you know that!!

i have learned a ton from you all.....

 

[InspectorGadget]

TDA, you need to explain how you think the coffin flies contamined the trash bag while in dumpster. Where do you think these little guys come from? Do you think they were just hanging around waiting for a dead body to show up, LOL? They would have to come from the environment because they surely did not originate in the trash bag they had to come from somewhere. As is stated above the coffin flies are not the same as blow flies and show up later after decomp has started. They don't show up for a ham sandwhich as the blow flies would have finished that up pronto as you stated.

I do not believe coffin flies would hang around a dumpster unless dead bodies were deposited on a regular basis. And even if they were there they would be going after any decomposition in the bag which they did. KC was not riding around town with her own special coffin flies, they had to have come from outside the trunk.

The definition of contaminant would be: complex materials such as hair or skin particles arising from sources not related to the ongoing investigation. So I think to use the word contaminated is misleading.

Just because they are called coffin flies, this does not mean that they will only feed on decomposing human flesh. If there are not humans available they will go for whatever they can find.

 

[BeanE]

That'd be cool because some members are expecting experts to make definitive statements, like absolutely or exactly or even match when in the science community you are NEVER going to get that.

Consistent with is very strong language.

Are they expecting that of the defense experts as well, do you think?

 

[Marina2]

Gosh...why do I feel like we've all had this conversation before! LOL!

ummm, because we have?? :banghead:

 

[InspectorGadget]

BBM

Sometimes what you DON'T find is every bit as important as what you do find.

No blow flies, bottle flies, fruit flies, house fly or their pupa, eggs or cases were found in the white trash bag from Casey's trunk. IF there was food in that dumpster, a slew of garbage eating insects, their offspring and their remains would have made it into the white trash bag. (Bag ties don't keep blow flies out of trash bags.) But that didn't happen. I think there was just the dried-out leg remnants from a deceased blow fly (which could have come in any time KC opened the trunk lid) to show that anything but a "coffin flies" ever found a way to whatever was in the garbage bag.

The thriving generations of "coffin fly" colonies and case remnants show "coffin fly" life cycles going on in the Pontiac trunk since late June or early July.

If the white trash bag had been breached because of being in the dumpster, they would be living and deceased signs of bugs other than "coffin flies".

Here's the Entomology Investigation which details what species of insects were found where: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21539770.pdf

According to the towyard guy a lot of the flies flew out of the car when he took the bag out so clearly they couldn't have been deceased.

 

[LambChop]

Just because they are called coffin flies, this does not mean that they will only feed on decomposing human flesh. If there are not humans available they will go for whatever they can find.

Right, exactly, but there was no food in the bag and the maggots were feeding on the grave wax on the papertowel.

 

[Tuffy]

Sorry I do not believe there is any speculation since the remains of Caylee was found as she did not walk to the site or place herself in the bags, etc. The body actually left the maggots if they were in the trunk when the body was removed, I would imagine. We don't need an expert to determine that. The insects were then drawn to the papertowel/napkins in the garbage bag which contained decomposition material.

It is all here in the various information threads and very interesting reading, it just takes some time to catch up but certainly worthwhile. So instead of anyone saying I just don't get it, or I don't believe there was a dead body in the trunk, go back and read these threads and you will understand. We all had to do it to get to this point and it was certainly worth the time and effort. If you don't want to take the time then the information provided from the experts here certainly backs up the reports and can be trusted.

Thank you, lambchop!

I don't think those of us that believe there was a dead body in the trunk are speculating. Of course, I only speak for myself. I feel the better wording would be that I have concluded (not speculated) that there was a dead body in the trunk. I have also concluded that it was Caylee.

Just to clarify, I looked up the official definitions of the words from Merriam-Webster:

speculate : to meditate on or ponder a subject : reflect b : to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively

conclude : to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence <concluded that her argument was sound> b : to make a decision about : decide <concluded he would wait a little longer> c : to come to an agreement on : effect <conclude a sale>

 

[InspectorGadget]

...except that the substance was present on a paper towel that was likely used to wipe up a decomposing Caylee and then placed in the bag. As far as the rest, at this stage, anyone can make their own assumptions, but I'll wait and see the defense's reports.

Hi RR000

Are we expecting to see reports from the defense about this?

Thankfully I have never hand to wipe up decomposing anything, but if I did, I don't think that paper towels would be my first choice to use. Rubber gloves maybe and an old bathtowel would be more effective.

 

[Phumi]

Well, just to save a little time, let me sum up the thread thus far for any newcomers.

*Car trunk contains hair with mitochondrial DNA that is consistent with Caylee.
*Hair contains dark banding consistent with post-mortem decomposition.
*Trunk contains garbage bag with maggots and coffin flies.
*Garbage bag contains papertowels/napkins with substance consistent with adipocere.
*Air test indicates chemical signature unique to human decomposition.
*Smell in car consistent with human decomposition (multiple reports)
*Owner of car reports smell to friend as coming from death of an animal (not garbage in her trunk.) Car owner leaves car at Amscot. 6 months later (long after garbage bags have been removed) it is reported that the smell of death in the car is still overwhelming.

Car owner's daughter is missing and months later found deceased--packaged like garbage and thrown in the woods 1/4-1/2 mile from car owner's home in garbage bags and laundry hamper consistent to those found in the home. Oh, and a rather rare (according to the manufacturing company) duct tape on her skull--and guess what--that same rather rare duct tape is found on gas cans that are in the home of the car owner and were once in the trunk of the car owner.


Obvious conclusion...All of the above were caused by lunchmeat.


Ladies and gentlemen, Caylee Anthony was killed by a ham sandwhich. The defense rests.

 

[LambChop]

Phumi, you forgot the cheese. Velvetta is a known "household weapon"! Google it, you will see. Death by ham and cheese. Very popular choice of weapon in Holland I understand.

 

[Tuffy]

I'm trying to link Docstoc for you, IG, but it's not cooperating. If you google
Casey anthony Cupid.com profile, there are many links to her dating profile.

I found a link to her Cupid.com profile, but don't see One Tree Hill referenced there.

Was it maybe from another of her online profiles? or is this link not including everything?

http://humbleopinion.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/casey-anthony-cupid-profile/