EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

[lovinlife83]

ahhh ok, I understand now, I knew about the video and the black truck etc, going back and forth, but for some reason I was drawing a blank about how it was going faster on the return trip. wow 100mph, on THAT road.... ?? hum

No guys!
He passed the first camera at 1 min 50 sec
He passed the second camera at 3 min 05 sec
Grand total at approx 60 mph 1 minute and 15 seconds making the video evidence totally possible!

 

[TTF14]

No guys!
He passed the first camera at 1 min 50 sec
He passed the second camera at 3 min 05 sec
Grand total at approx 60 mph 1 minute and 15 seconds making the video evidence totally possible!

Agree.

I know that a jury can acquit on reasonable doubt, but from what we know now, it is completely UNreasonable to think TM an SM are soooooo unlucky to have been caught on camera (and cell records) talking to Heather just prior to her disappearance (in the middle of the night, no less) AND have a truck matching theirs going to and speeding FROM the "crime scene" right after those phone chats, and still have nothing to do with this. And that's not even taking into account any of the history between these fools and this girl, and all of the blabbering loudmouth TM did afterwards.

I know it is 2015, but DNA evidence is not mandatory for a conviction, and I hope the prosecutor reiterates that to the jury. This is real life, not a crime TV show. It make zero sense that the Moorers would be so unlucky to have the thorn in their flesh disappear on the very night they had middle of the night (probably drunken) contact with her and they had nothing to do with it, when circumstantial evidence (which is still evidence) clearly says otherwise.

 

[lovinlife83]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...No-Discussion-Thread*&p=10359684#post10359684
Here is a link to the timeline that shows the time between the business cam and the residential cam to be one minute apart on the return trip

 

[jillycat]

I don't know that anyone has difficulty in connecting the dots. It's just that the really big dot about how she was killed and where she is now is missing along the otherwise info-loaded circumstantial trail. I would think a jury would be interested in how the victim died in such a fleeting amount of time, almost as if she launched herself from her vehicle onto the murder weapon/method of the M's immediately upon their arrival at PTL. And then they went back toward their home but don't appear to have done anything with Heather on their property. While the state might not have to answer the most obvious questions, it would make sense to me that jurors would be trying to fit those square pegs into the rest of the case's round holes.

To me this has always been a case of the police knowing a lot about what they don't know about. I think that's potentially an obstacle, given that the defense also has a shot at the jury.

 

[poppygirl]

Agree.

I know that a jury can acquit on reasonable doubt, but from what we know now, it is completely UNreasonable to think TM an SM are soooooo unlucky to have been caught on camera (and cell records) talking to Heather just prior to her disappearance (in the middle of the night, no less) AND have a truck matching theirs going to and speeding FROM the "crime scene" right after those phone chats, and still have nothing to do with this. And that's not even taking into account any of the history between these fools and this girl, and all of the blabbering loudmouth TM did afterwards.

I know it is 2015, but DNA evidence is not mandatory for a conviction, and I hope the prosecutor reiterates that to the jury. This is real life, not a crime TV show. It make zero sense that the Moorers would be so unlucky to have the thorn in their flesh disappear on the very night they had middle of the night (probably drunken) contact with her and they had nothing to do with it, when circumstantial evidence (which is still evidence) clearly says otherwise.

If I were on the jury, this would be enough for me. But every jury is different.

 

[Ghostwheel]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...No-Discussion-Thread*&p=10359684#post10359684
Here is a link to the timeline that shows the time between the business cam and the residential cam to be one minute apart on the return trip

Everyone keeps forgetting that it could be 3:45 and no seconds or 3:45 and 59 seconds and 3:46 and no seconds or 3:46 and 59 seconds. If it is 3:45 and no seconds and 3:46 and 59 seconds, that is one second short of 2 minutes, not one minute. It makes a big difference in speed.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Also,
It is 3.8 miles between the Moorer house and PTL going ST Hwy 814 and Mill Pond Rd
One camera is 1.7 miles from the Moorer house
The other is 1.2 miles from PTL
1.7 +1.2 is 2.9
3.8-2.9 is .9
The truck traveled .9 miles in 1 or 2 minutes
Traveling .9 miles in 1 minute is 54 MPH
Traveling .9 miles in 2 minutes is 27 MPH.
Both speeds are easily recordable.

 

[lovinlife83]

Also,
It is 3.8 miles between the Moorer house and PTL going ST Hwy 814 and Mill Pond Rd
One camera is 1.7 miles from the Moorer house
The other is 1.2 miles from PTL
1.7 +1.2 is 2.9
3.8-2.9 is .9
The truck traveled .9 miles in 1 or 2 minutes
Traveling .9 miles in 1 minute is 54 MPH
Traveling .9 miles in 2 minutes is 27 MPH.
Both speeds are easily recordable.

Yes, exactly! [emoji122]. Thank you. I love when MATH proves my point lol.

 

[cujenn81]

No guys!
He passed the first camera at 1 min 50 sec
He passed the second camera at 3 min 05 sec
Grand total at approx 60 mph 1 minute and 15 seconds making the video evidence totally possible!

Ahhh.... well now I REALLY feel like an idiot.
Ha!

ETA: I should have known better; math has never been my strong suit.

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[lovinlife83]

Ahhh.... well now I REALLY feel like an idiot.
Ha!

ETA: I should have known better; math has never been my strong suit.

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Lol, it's okay! Don't feel bad [emoji6]
I wasn't trying to be a butthead up thread, I promise. It's just that there has been so much confusion and some saying how it wasn't possible (a year ago in old threads) and this video brought it up again. I was excited to see the math problem presented in such a simple way to clear it up quicker than I could type with words. I suck at sentence structure lol.

 

[cujenn81]

Concerning the cancelled gag order hearing, I am still not understanding things completely.:scared:

1. If Judge Dennis wasn't allowed to overturn Judge John's gag order then, why wasn't the hearing scheduled with Judge John? Why didn't anyone flag it when it was first filed?
2. Why didn't the State bring these items to attention right after they happened or learned about them? Why did they wait until the day before the hearing?
3. Why was the the State allowed to submit a memorandum directly to Judge Dennis and have the hearing cancelled? Shouldn't this info been used at the hearing? Why was Judge Dennis then allowed to rule in the matter? And, did he sign-off on it yet or did Judge John?
4. If Judge Dennis was allowed to cancel the hearing, then why could he not hear the Defense's case against the gag order? Judge John signed an order in 2014 that grants Judge Dennis “concurrent jurisdiction” to hear matters related to the Elvis case. Including the gag order!
5. Right after last bond hearing, both Attorneys made comments and were speaking to the press. Here's Truslow on video.

Concurrent jurisdiction exists where two or more courts from different systems simultaneously have jurisdiction over a specific case. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_jurisdiction

It does seem strange that the hearing wasn't cancelled until the day before... or better yet... that a hearing was ever scheduled at all.

I read the actual motion filed by the State, and if I understood it correctly, SC law prohibits requests that ask for one circuit court judge to overrule a decision made by a different circuit court judge. So, even though Judge Dennis now has jurisdiction over the case... he cannot overrule a decision previously ordered by Judge John. The reason Judge Dennis was allowed to rule in favor of bond (even though Judge John initially denied it) is because the ruling stated that a second bond hearing could be requested in the future, if circumstances changed. The lab error w/ the DNA made key evidence presented at the initial bond hearing irrelevant and was enough to justify the request for a second hearing.

I definitely agree that the solicitor's office, as well as the court, should have caught that "slip through the crack" long before they did.


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[Ghostwheel]

Yes, exactly! [emoji122]. Thank you. I love when MATH proves my point lol.

And now we know why we did all those word problems in math class....

 

[Madeleine74]

Not necessarily. Just no comments from any attorneys after the daily proceedings.

Jury will probably be sequestered as well IMO.

Also anticipating some form of a gag order after the verdict is announced. Like no book or movie rights. ;/

No such thing as a "gag order" after a case is adjudicated.

 

[Madeleine74]

It also took the person driving in the video (posted on here) 3 minutes to travel the distance between the two cameras @ 60 mph. So, if the driver got from Camera A to Camera B in 1 minute or less on the trip back... he was driving close to 100 mph.

Interesting. Have those speeds actually been verified and made public?

ETA: ahhh I see that was speculation and the math was revisited by others.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

No such thing as a "gag order" after a case is adjudicated.

Not true. There could be an injunction after the case is adjudicated.

Here are a few quick examples... Ferguson...


http://ajrarchive.org/Article.asp?id=1767

http://time.com/3653815/ferguson-grand-jury-michael-brown-darren-wilson/

http://njlaw.rutgers.edu/collections/resource.org/fed_reporter/F3/263/263.F3d.80.html


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[Madeleine74]

You're citing examples related to grand jury and jury secrecy.

Gag order in this case applies to the attorneys, the defendants, and court personnel.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

You're citing examples related to grand jury and jury secrecy.

Gag order in this case applies to the attorneys, the defendants, and court personnel.

(Away from my sleuth machine.)

I said some form of a gag order –whether it be attorneys, defendants, LE, or jury. And might I add, it may even be self-imposed IMO. Like HCPD and Solicitor's office not saying much of anything after this is all said and done. Plus, if there are any civil suits or appeals, the order could be extended. That's all...


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[SStarr33]

I'm not sure what you guys are posting about re: the speed of the truck and feel like I must be missing something. Didn't we already know that the trip to PTL was fairly slow and leaving PTL was at a high rate of speed?

 

[EmmaRose]

Tammy Moorer's defense attorney accused in court filing of violating gag order

http://myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_154b8190-c2b2-11e4-8482-6f63026d7135.html?mode=jqm


Really? GMAB

I just posted last night how I was seeing comments from both sides.


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What could happen to McCollum now? Does he get a slap on the hand or is this very serious where he would be taken off the case. I have no idea how this works, but I would like to understand how it does.

 

[TedMac]

What could happen to McCollum now? Does he get a slap on the hand or is this very serious where he would be taken off the case. I have no idea how this works, but I would like to understand how it does.

This shouldn't be enough for him to be removed from the case. But, he could face a contempt of Court citation and also could face a hearing by the local Bar which could result in his law license being suspended. However, all of the above (if it happens) would probably come after TM's trial.