Evidence you can't explain

[Steely Dan]

This can't be correct. The note sets up a situation in which JBR is killed in retaliation for not following the instructions. Once the body is found in the house and autopsied it becomes obvious she was dead several hours prior to the Rs talking to everybody , the parade of people, and the police cars showing up.

You have JBR being killed in "retaliation" several hours before the events that trigger the retaliation. The Rs were, imo, smart enough to see the error here.

What's perplexing about the note is that "whoever" wrote it already knew JB was dead and still in the house. Then we have JR "finding" the body and bringing it upstairs. The police missed her body on the first search and thought she wasn't in the house, IIRC. Then JR finds her on a subsequent search and brings her up. :waitasec:

In the spirit of the thread, something that is difficult to make sense of, for me, is the RN business about a SFF.

I will not bother looking at it from IDI perspective. In RDI scenarios it doesn't seem necessary. In fact it tends to undermine the credibility of the RN.

In a "kidnapping gone bad" theory, the kidnappers are working for a SFF which implies organization and a focus on particular goals. Why then does it go "bad"?

In the DocG theory, which is the one I currently favor, there also seems to be no need for this. In fact JR's comment about it being an "inside job" contradict the notion of it being organized by a SFF.

What is SFF?

 

[InstantProof]

So if I take the spotlight off BR for just a moment....
JB is awake when they get home and says she is hungry. It has been a long day and everyone is tired and they say no.... it is time for bed... Judging by the wilfulness and spoiled little girls you can see on toddlers and tiaras JB stands her ground firm and says I WANT PINEAPPLE!!! I WANT PINEAPPLE!!! Nerves are frayed PR or JR has had enough and slaps her...too hard, she hits her head on the kitchen counter and there is no pulse.
What to do?? What to do??? They concoct these elaborate plan of the intruder to cover up the murder. Could be as simple as that. Or, they carried her upstairs screaming she want pineapple, later on, she sneaks down stairs and gets into the pineapple, where she is caught and someone is absolutely furious.

I don't think it had anything to do directly with the pineapple, since the bowl/ spoon with the pineapple was left out and not cleaned up. The R's were unaware, or forgot about it.

 

[cubbeegirl]

What's perplexing about the note is that "whoever" wrote it already knew JB was dead and still in the house. Then we have JR "finding" the body and bringing it upstairs. The police missed her body on the first search and thought she wasn't in the house, IIRC. Then JR finds her on a subsequent search and brings her up. :waitasec:



What is SFF?

Small
Foreign
Faction
( cough cough)

 

[InstantProof]

Sort of like how Jeffrey Macdonald proclaimed for years that when they DNA tested the hair found in Collete's hand they would have their murderer. When it was finally tested the hair was his. So, turns out, he was telling the truth about that all along.

I too believe Patsy wrote the note and I really cannot be convinced otherwise. I do not believe John had any part in writing it and, in fact, I think he would have never allowed it to be shown to the police. He had to see how ludicrous it was.

I think Patsy got the 911 call right. She seems to have only read the RN start and skipped to the end and then runs around the house, and calls 911. That's how I would read a terrifying letter like that. And I'm not sure someone faking it would think to present it that way. But, if the RN is part of staging, I wonder if it is intentionally made to be long and rambling, as ridiculous as it may be, so that the message about not contacting anyone could be overlooked at first. Of course, the body is found in the house and no one thinks contacting LE and friends made any difference, anyway.

 

[deca]

Didn't one of the neighbors hear a metallic scraping/clanging sound that night? I wonder if duct tape and other things got dumped down a manhole or grate outside somewhere? But there would have been footprints, right?

Pineapple: I always had a feeling that the kids, hyped up from their day- were wandering unsupervised (and eating pineapple) around the house after the party while the R's packed, made some calls or whatever. Then the kids were ushered upstairs to go to bed. Sometime shortly later is when JB is hit over the head.

I believe the cover up duties were shared that night. Patsy trotted off to go write the ransom note and was way too theatrical. They were rushed for time and J was showering up- they did have a deadline for calling 911 since they needed to get the kids up early that morning for the trip- J probably didn't realize how ridiculous the note was until it was too late.

Have you all heard that people that lie add in WAY too many unimportant details to a story. That is the ransom note right there.

 

[DeeDee249]

I agree, to a point. If you took toddlers in jeans and a T shirt and paraded them around on stage pedos would still show up. Tart them up and it becomes a pedos paradise. JMO



What difference does it make if she walked in or was asleep?

It makes a HUGE difference because they LIED about it. It isn't the actual act (how she got into the house). It is the REASON they had to lie about it. It is really one simple reason- They TOLD police she was asleep the whole time. If they admit she ate the pineapple, that obviously means they knew she was awake at some point.
They told police she was asleep BEFORE they knew the pineapple had been identified. They were now locked into that lie. They had to continue to maintain that she was asleep and they did not know how she ate the pineappleor else they would have to admit they lied about it.

 

[dodie20]

What's perplexing about the note is that "whoever" wrote it already knew JB was dead and still in the house. Then we have JR "finding" the body and bringing it upstairs. The police missed her body on the first search and thought she wasn't in the house, IIRC. Then JR finds her on a subsequent search and brings her up. :waitasec:



What is SFF?

We don't know for sure that the writer knew JB was dead when he/she wrote the note. One thing I found interesting about the note, is that it starts off with 1 tone and then abruptly switches to the 'she dies, she dies, she dies', repetition. One explanation for this is the writer might have stopped writing and then went and killed JB, (finished her off), and then came back and finished the note. moo and just a theory.

 

[gramcracker]

What's perplexing about the note is that "whoever" wrote it already knew JB was dead and still in the house. Then we have JR "finding" the body and bringing it upstairs. The police missed her body on the first search and thought she wasn't in the house, IIRC. Then JR finds her on a subsequent search and brings her up. :waitasec:

I know you know this so my post isn't directed at you, but we get a lot of guests/newbies here and I recently had a conversation with a friend who said: LE didn't find her when they were searching the house for her

LE wasn't looking for JB when they searched the house. they were looking for evidence of a break-in (points of entry/exit) and anything else related to the crime. the RN said she had been kidnapped and "At this time we have your daughter in our posession" and "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you ... " so LE's logical assumption was that she was not in the house

 

[BOESP]

I know you know this so my post isn't directed at you, but we get a lot of guests/newbies here and I recently had a conversation with a friend who said: LE didn't find her when they were searching the house for her

LE wasn't looking for JB when they searched the house. they were looking for evidence of a break-in (points of entry/exit) and anything else related to the crime. the RN said she had been kidnapped and "At this time we have your daughter in our posession" and "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you ... " so LE's logical assumption was that she was not in the house

I'm glad you posted this gramcracker. It seems the public sometimes expects police officers and detectives to be mind-readers and magicians. Unfortunately, most of the suspects and potential suspects they deal with are liars, which further complicates investigations.

BBM. I see this as a pure Patsy statement that might suggest she believes JonBenet is with God the Father and God the Son and neither deity particularly likes John. Unlike Blue Bottle, I don't see it as a "cause" statement. I see it as an "effect," (an after-effect) that allowed Patsy to deal with what happened. So ... is this statement directed at John because Patsy is placing some or all blame on John? Or is it a part of staging she added in because it sounded good to her thus means nothing?

 

[dodie20]

Re: Pineapple

If both PR/JR were in on the coverup, and one of them knew about the pineapple, then there seems to be no reason to lie about it. The story line does not have to be that she was carried up to bed. The story line could just as easily have been that the kids were served a pineapple snack, then JB went to bed. The 5 or 10 minutes spent eating pineapple are not critical, the bogeyman can still come in the house and kill JBR even though she ate pineapple before going to bed.

Why the lie? One possibility is that neither parent knew she ate pineapple, hence they failed to account for it in their story. Another is that one parent knew, and the other did not. A lone JDI or lone PDI theory might have the guilty parent knowing about the pineapple but the innocent one not knowing. The guilty one can't tell that he/she knows about the pineapple.

Here's what I think. I don't remember the exact amount of time, (somebody here will), but there was very little time between the snack and the head bash...so little time, that there's no way the Rs could have admitted to feeding her or knowing that she was eating. Because it didn't leave enough time for them to all go to bed and fall into their comas. moo

 

[dodie20]

I think Patsy got the 911 call right. She seems to have only read the RN start and skipped to the end and then runs around the house, and calls 911. That's how I would read a terrifying letter like that. And I'm not sure someone faking it would think to present it that way. But, if the RN is part of staging, I wonder if it is intentionally made to be long and rambling, as ridiculous as it may be, so that the message about not contacting anyone could be overlooked at first. Of course, the body is found in the house and no one thinks contacting LE and friends made any difference, anyway.

I have to admit that if I worked for 911 and answered the phone, I would have totally bought into her call. Awhile back, I had a thought. I believed this call, but I didn't buy into the interview where her lips were quivering and she said someone was out there. IMO, she had the vocal acting down pat but exaggerated the facial expressions. It would be interesting to know what her face was doing during the 911. In the call, she slurred some of her words, but I'm not sure the operator picked up on it. In the early police reports, was anything at all written about drinking? moo

 

[Steely Dan]

I know you know this so my post isn't directed at you, but we get a lot of guests/newbies here and I recently had a conversation with a friend who said: LE didn't find her when they were searching the house for her

LE wasn't looking for JB when they searched the house. they were looking for evidence of a break-in (points of entry/exit) and anything else related to the crime. the RN said she had been kidnapped and "At this time we have your daughter in our posession" and "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you ... " so LE's logical assumption was that she was not in the house

Thanks, that's an excellent point. I raises a serious question though. If the cops hadn't found the body, then why did JR bring her up? Wouldn't they just keep the body til everyone left and then dump it somewhere?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thanks, that's an excellent point. I raises a serious question though. If the cops hadn't found the body, then why did JR bring her up? Wouldn't they just keep the body til everyone left and then dump it somewhere?

John had a really important meeting!

I'm dead serious!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[gramcracker]

they couldn't leave town if she wasn't found. the deadline for the phone call came and went (no one was observed commenting about that) and they'd be expected to stay in town to wait for further communication from the kidanpper(s) and cooperate with the investigation into their daughter's disappearance

as the morning wore on Arndt noticed that JR began to seem preoccupied and was drumming his fingers: let's get this show on the road

 

[dodie20]

Thanks, that's an excellent point. I raises a serious question though. If the cops hadn't found the body, then why did JR bring her up? Wouldn't they just keep the body til everyone left and then dump it somewhere?

Here are a couple of ideas. Maybe JR wasn't in on the murder but he figured it out, (because he knew PR well), and just wanted the charade to end. Or, the cops hanging around and showing no signs of leaving, rattled his nerves. Maybe he planned to dump the body but when he realized he couldn't with the cops there, he decided to do the next best thing...and that was to get the body and contaminate evidence before the cops found it. just some thoughts here and moo

 

[Steely Dan]

I finally found my copy of Kolar's book. I've read up the chapter called Homicide. The ransom note is reprinted before that chapter. I noticed something very unusual about the ransom note. The letter "a" is written like you see it here "a". My brother and I both write our a's that way in handwriting. I've never come across anyone else who does too. In fact the way I write my a's has confused some people, because they think they are 2's. I've tried to write something with the most popular way to write them. Which is a small leaning oval with a tail on it. It's so instinctual for me to write my a's like that and I can't write them any other way, unless I concentrate very hard. I certainly would screw up some a's in a note that long. So did anyone in the family normally write their a's like typewriter a's? If so that would seem to be a big clue.

Also, why would the ransom note be left on the steps instead of on the kitchen counter? Also, why did John, after seeing the note, move it to another stairway instead of putting it on the kitchen counter or some other table? Very odd to me.

Also, if it were my child there wouldn't be any meeting too important to miss. If I HAD to participate I'd do it by phone with their end on speaker. JMO

 

[claudicici]

Patsy did those typewriter "a"s
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/entryforumsample2.gif

 

[Steely Dan]

Patsy did those typewriter "a"s
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/entryforumsample2.gif

The link doesn't work.

 

[Steely Dan]

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/note/

Patsy Ramsey switches back and forth between a "cursive" style letter "a" and a "manuscript" style letter at random intervals.

 

[Steely Dan]

This is a page of the ransom note and she goes back and forth with the "a" style (If it was her who wrote it)

I'm about 99% sure she wrote it.