Subtle but key evidence waived

[BBB167893]

OK not 'mythmaking.' How about 'claims with dubious support that seem to not be reflected in any current LE thinking' instead.

Funny. But whatever floats your boat. (Personally, I might get it into my head to start a thread on this "current LE thinking." Maybe that will do it.)

I'm going to start a new thread all about claims & opinions vs. information.

If you don't mind my saying so, HOTYH, I think that is an excellent idea.

 

[Roy23]

Some DNA traces were found that could be attributed to a male not living in the house. Somehow this DNA made its way onto more than one article of clothing that JBR was wearing at the time she was murdered. That was big news in 2008. The DA used this evidence to support the argument that the R's should be treated as victims and not suspects.

JMK admitted to the murder of JBR. That was also big news. He didn't match the DNA and couldn't place himself in Boulder on the date in question, so LE ruled him out as a suspect. But not before he made the news, and made at least one or two handwriting analysts believe he had written the note.

Despite these IDI media bombshells, RDI would stay its course. If a IDI bombshell can't cause RDI to waiver, how then would a very subtle but key piece of evidence get any attention?

It wouldn't now and probably didn't then.

Presuming RDI was the thought for the day back in 1996, subtle but key evidence was likely waived.

:clap:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Funny. But whatever floats your boat. (Personally, I might get it into my head to start a thread on this "current LE thinking." Maybe that will do it.)

Current LE thinking, based on the trace DNA and the JMK fiasco, is IDI. I can't remember any recent RDI developments. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What that does is elevates the significance of anything IDI way back in 1997. All those things that were IDI and brushed aside for the sake of the umbrella should be revisited.

 

[BBB167893]

Current LE thinking, based on the trace DNA and the JMK fiasco, is IDI. I can't remember any recent RDI developments.

Who knows what might happen?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

On this, or in general? You have to be careful with me.

What that does is elevates the significance of anything IDI way back in 1997. All those things that were IDI and brushed aside for the sake of the umbrella should be revisited.

They might just be.

And I still think your idea for the thread is a good one.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Here's some IDI clips from 1997:

--- is somebody who had previously been in the Ramsey home.

--- may have quickly invented an alibi for his whereabouts on the night of the attack and repeated it often to people he knows.

--- may have been suffering from stress in the weeks preceding the Christmastime attack, which may have been triggered by a job or personal crisis.

--- may be "rigid, nervous and preoccupied in casual conversation."

--- may have increased his consumption of alcohol or drugs and/or turned to religion since the attack.

--- may be a "rabid" follower of all news reports and talk show discussions of the case.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<LI type=square>Six unlocked windows and an unlocked kitchen door were found in the slain 6-year-old's Boulder home.
<LI type=square>Possible pry marks were discovered at a back door to the kitchen.
<LI type=square>An unidentified boot print was found in the Ramseys' basement, where JonBenet's strangled and battered body was found Dec. 26, 1996.
Smit quit last week as an investigator for the Boulder District Attorney's Office and criticized Boulder police for ignoring such evidence and the possibility that an intruder murdered the beauty princess. "Instead of letting the case tell them which way to go," he wrote in a resignation letter, "they have elected to follow a theory and let their theory direct them rather than allowing the evidence to direct them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"In one case in Florida, they posted the killer's writing on a billboard and they actually solved the case because someone called the police after recognizing the writing," Kelley said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To the killer, I would say that we can and will find you. There is a $100,000 reward for your arrest that still stands. You have the opportunity to do one good thing in your life by turning yourself in to the authorities and confessing. We have been told that the authorities have your DNA. They will know it is you. If you surrender and are proven to be the killer, the $100,000 will be paid to anyone you choose. Surely you have a mother or spouse or child or friend to whom this money would be significant. Help them and help yourself. You know you will kill again, so do this one good thing in your life. Turn yourself in and ask for God's forgiveness. Your fellow man will be grateful and our family will be grateful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The evidence they want further explored includes:
<LI type=square>DNA found under JonBenet's fingernails.
<LI type=square>The cord found around her neck and the duct tape across her mouth.
<LI type=square>A pubic hair found on her blanket.
<LI type=square>The ransom note.
<LI type=square>The stun gun that might have been used to subdue her.
<LI type=square>A palm print found on the cellar door.
<LI type=square>A footprint of a Hi-Tec hiking boot found near her body.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[MsBashterd]

Here's some IDI clips from 1997:

--- is somebody who had previously been in the Ramsey home.

--- may have quickly invented an alibi for his whereabouts on the night of the attack and repeated it often to people he knows.

--- may have been suffering from stress in the weeks preceding the Christmastime attack, which may have been triggered by a job or personal crisis.

--- may be "rigid, nervous and preoccupied in casual conversation."

--- may have increased his consumption of alcohol or drugs and/or turned to religion since the attack.

--- may be a "rabid" follower of all news reports and talk show discussions of the case.

These are pretty vague, right?




Have been following this thread closely very interesting.......but as I was reading this it certainly struck me how many of these above clips could apply to (certain)members of the immediate family, again I'm sittin here just :waitasec:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If IDI then after 12 years certainly somebody would've come up with a handwriting match. Even a DNA match.

IDI explanation could be that the killer isn't in Boulder, Colorado, or the US. The continured absence of a handwriting or DNA match would be normal under FFDI.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

More from 1997:

The ad is one of a series of weekly full-page ads in the Sunday Camera run by the Ramsey family in the month after John Ramsey issued a scathing statement criticizing the investigation of his daughter's murder. The 6-year-old was found strangled in the basement of the family's home Dec. 26, about eight hours after her mother reported finding a ransom note on a back stairway. When told the ad would include phrases from movies, Hunter said, "We object to that. Whether it's exact or not exact, we have objected. In terms of the investigation, it does not advance the investigation at this point." If lines - or phrases similar to those lines - from the note are published, Hunter said it would make it difficult in questioning suspects about the contents of the note. "We would like to have them tell us what's in the note, rather than to have them read it in the paper," he said. Ramsey spokeswoman Rachelle Zimmer did not return calls late Thursday seeking a response to Hunter. Zimmer said in a news release that the content of the ad also will be mailed to Boulder households. Among the movie lines listed in the ad: From "Speed": "You know that I'm on top of you. Do not attempt to grow a brain." Reports have said the note includes the line, "Do not attempt to grow a brain, John." From "Dirty Harry": "If I even think you're being followed, the girl dies." From "Ransom": "Do not involve the police or the FBI. If you do, I will kill him." Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby wouldn't comment on the advertisement. But when asked if the Ramseys, their lawyers or their public relations representatives contacted him about the ad, he replied, "They have not contacted me in six months." Ramsey attorneys say calls to the number listed in the ads have resulted in several leads, but they have refused to say what they are. When asked if the Ramseys have shared such information with his office, Hunter said: "In a very general way. I have received no specific report from them about information they have received."

 

[BBB167893]

Here's some IDI clips from 1997:

--- is somebody who had previously been in the Ramsey home.

--- may have quickly invented an alibi for his whereabouts on the night of the attack and repeated it often to people he knows.

--- may have been suffering from stress in the weeks preceding the Christmastime attack, which may have been triggered by a job or personal crisis.

--- may be "rigid, nervous and preoccupied in casual conversation."

--- may have increased his consumption of alcohol or drugs and/or turned to religion since the attack.

--- may be a "rabid" follower of all news reports and talk show discussions of the case.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<LI type=square>Six unlocked windows and an unlocked kitchen door were found in the slain 6-year-old's Boulder home.
<LI type=square>Possible pry marks were discovered at a back door to the kitchen.
<LI type=square>An unidentified boot print was found in the Ramseys' basement, where JonBenet's strangled and battered body was found Dec. 26, 1996.
Smit quit last week as an investigator for the Boulder District Attorney's Office and criticized Boulder police for ignoring such evidence and the possibility that an intruder murdered the beauty princess. "Instead of letting the case tell them which way to go," he wrote in a resignation letter, "they have elected to follow a theory and let their theory direct them rather than allowing the evidence to direct them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"In one case in Florida, they posted the killer's writing on a billboard and they actually solved the case because someone called the police after recognizing the writing," Kelley said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To the killer, I would say that we can and will find you. There is a $100,000 reward for your arrest that still stands. You have the opportunity to do one good thing in your life by turning yourself in to the authorities and confessing. We have been told that the authorities have your DNA. They will know it is you. If you surrender and are proven to be the killer, the $100,000 will be paid to anyone you choose. Surely you have a mother or spouse or child or friend to whom this money would be significant. Help them and help yourself. You know you will kill again, so do this one good thing in your life. Turn yourself in and ask for God's forgiveness. Your fellow man will be grateful and our family will be grateful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The evidence they want further explored includes:
<LI type=square>DNA found under JonBenet's fingernails.
<LI type=square>The cord found around her neck and the duct tape across her mouth.
<LI type=square>A pubic hair found on her blanket.
<LI type=square>The ransom note.
<LI type=square>The stun gun that might have been used to subdue her.
<LI type=square>A palm print found on the cellar door.
<LI type=square>A footprint of a Hi-Tec hiking boot found near her body.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes it's too easy.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Easier than you're thinking.

Thanks for rolling it forward, SD.

 

[BBB167893]

Easier than you're thinking.

That's my line.

Thanks for rolling it forward, SD.

Don't thank me yet.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Have been following this thread closely very interesting.......but as I was reading this it certainly struck me how many of these above clips could apply to (certain)members of the immediate family, again I'm sittin here just :waitasec:

Could apply to thousands of people besides the R's too, esp. at Christmas. Its almost generic.

Too generic, vague.

Here's some profile stuff thats somewhat less vague and all 1998 or before:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,986892,00.html

On Sunday, moreover, the Ramseys ran their fourth local newspaper ad appealing for help from the public. The ad noted that the killer "appears to be obsessed with techno-crime movies and phrases from them" and included quotes from Ransom, Dirty Harry and Speed that the family says are similar to ones in the bogus ransom note.

Or,

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96862/output/print

5 - Despite threats of violence throughout the note, Van Zandt says, it has a 'softness' suggesting its author was a woman or perhaps a 'genteel man.'
6 - The letter is full of commanding phrases like this one about 'immediate execution.' To Van Zandt, they point to an author used to exerting authority over others.
7 - The line 'If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies' echoes the movie 'Dirty Harry,' as do other phrases. Van Zandt says: 'This is a novice trying to sound like an experienced criminal.'
8 - The note's salutation is formal, but here the overall tone becomes more familiar and casual. Van Zandt thinks the writer may be suggesting a personal acquaintance with John Ramsey.
9 - Richards says the ransom note is one of the longest he has ever seen, indicating either that the author had enough time to carefully craft the letter or that it is not a genuine demand for ransom.
10 - With its connotations of revolution, the closing 'Victory!'-harks back to the connection to foreign powers. 'S.B.T.C' may be another attempt to sound foreign, says Van Zandt.

Here, I have to read thru the obvious RDI 'hints' that I've highlighted, to get to the subtle profile stuff I think is less vague than 'family problems', which I've underlined.

Based on some of the professional observations that I selected, here's a modified profile with less ambiguity than a 'personal or job crisis'.

• May be well versed with techno-crime movies and may frequently use phrases from them.
• May use expressions with connotations of political revolution.
• May have expressed disrespect or dislike of the U.S.
• May use the term 'fat cat' in a derogatory way. May be against the whole idea of personal wealth.
• May frequently use commanding phrases, and may be in a position to exert authority over others.
• May frequently use threats of violence, including executions.
• May be known for carefully crafting letters.

 

[Ravyn]

Thank you for the links..I find it disturbing that the DA went against the LE and released the autopsy report...Cause who to say if it was kept secret the killer(s) might had been caught by now...

 

[DeeDee249]

A judge ordered the autopsy to be released after requests by reporters. At first, only a partial report was released, later the entire report was made public. Th coroner's notes, always dictated during the procedure, have not been made public as far as I know. And the coroner did not specify the exact nature of the cellulose or birefringent material found in the vagina. Perhaps to keep some facts secret, known only to the one who put it there.
Detective LInda Arndt was present at the autopsy. She said the coroner told her during the procedure that the erosion of the hymen was consistent with chronic digital penetration (indicating prior sexual contact) and that the bruising indicated abuse that took place the night she died. It was the fact that there was EROSION that pointed to abuse happening before that night. If it was from a penetration with the paintbrush, the hymen would be torn, not eroded. But the coroner did not put these conclusions/professional opinions in the report. He is required to state a cause of death if possible. His opinions about what may have caused the injuries that are not related to the actual cause of death are something that the coroner will share with the DA and LE, but not put in the report itself.

 

[BBB167893]

Could apply to thousands of people besides the R's too, esp. at Christmas. Its almost generic.

Too generic, vague.

Problem is, HOTYH, that was the profile THEY paid for!

Here's some profile stuff thats somewhat less vague and all 1998 or before:

5 - Despite threats of violence throughout the note, Van Zandt says, it has a 'softness' suggesting its author was a woman or perhaps a 'genteel man.'
6 - The letter is full of commanding phrases like this one about 'immediate execution.' To Van Zandt, they point to an author used to exerting authority over others.
7 - The line 'If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies' echoes the movie 'Dirty Harry,' as do other phrases. Van Zandt says: 'This is a novice trying to sound like an experienced criminal.'
8 - The note's salutation is formal, but here the overall tone becomes more familiar and casual. Van Zandt thinks the writer may be suggesting a personal acquaintance with John Ramsey.
9 - Richards says the ransom note is one of the longest he has ever seen, indicating either that the author had enough time to carefully craft the letter or that it is not a genuine demand for ransom.
10 - With its connotations of revolution, the closing 'Victory!'-harks back to the connection to foreign powers. 'S.B.T.C' may be another attempt to sound foreign, says Van Zandt.

Here, I have to read thru the obvious RDI 'hints' that I've highlighted, to get to the subtle profile stuff I think is less vague than 'family problems', which I've underlined.[/QUOTE]

Ask my opinion, you ignored all of the right stuff!

Based on some of the professional observations that I selected, here's a modified profile with less ambiguity than a 'personal or job crisis'.

• May be well versed with techno-crime movies and may frequently use phrases from them.
• May use expressions with connotations of political revolution.
• May have expressed disrespect or dislike of the U.S.
• May use the term 'fat cat' in a derogatory way. May be against the whole idea of personal wealth.
  [*]May frequently use commanding phrases, and may be in a position to exert authority over others.
• May frequently use threats of violence, including executions.
  [*]May be known for carefully crafting letters.

You're slipping, HOTYH!

 

[BBB167893]

Detective LInda Arndt was present at the autopsy. She said the coroner told her during the procedure that the erosion of the hymen was consistent with chronic digital penetration (indicating prior sexual contact) and that the bruising indicated abuse that took place the night she died. It was the fact that there was EROSION that pointed to abuse happening before that night. If it was from a penetration with the paintbrush, the hymen would be torn, not eroded. But the coroner did not put these conclusions/professional opinions in the report. He is required to state a cause of death if possible. His opinions about what may have caused the injuries that are not related to the actual cause of death are something that the coroner will share with the DA and LE, but not put in the report itself.

:clap:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You're slipping, HOTYH!

Doesn't ring any bells, eh?

 

[BBB167893]

Doesn't ring any bells, eh?

I don't think you get what I mean.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I don't think you get what I mean.

Likewise I'm sure. Shall I expand on the profile for you?

 

[Ravyn]

A judge ordered the autopsy to be released after requests by reporters. At first, only a partial report was released, later the entire report was made public. Th coroner's notes, always dictated during the procedure, have not been made public as far as I know. And the coroner did not specify the exact nature of the cellulose or birefringent material found in the vagina. Perhaps to keep some facts secret, known only to the one who put it there.
Detective LInda Arndt was present at the autopsy. She said the coroner told her during the procedure that the erosion of the hymen was consistent with chronic digital penetration (indicating prior sexual contact) and that the bruising indicated abuse that took place the night she died. It was the fact that there was EROSION that pointed to abuse happening before that night. If it was from a penetration with the paintbrush, the hymen would be torn, not eroded. But the coroner did not put these conclusions/professional opinions in the report. He is required to state a cause of death if possible. His opinions about what may have caused the injuries that are not related to the actual cause of death are something that the coroner will share with the DA and LE, but not put in the report itself.

So since the coroner just shared certains things with the DA and LE could this be some of the reason that nothing really been done about the male DNA cause it has nothing to do with the case or vice versa...Or just a Media thing.