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Anyone can testify about anything KC said to them, without it being hearsay, since she is the defendent. That's not to say that everything she's said is admissable, of course, but it won't be a problem under the hearsay rule.
 
A few more that seem to be relevant to this discussion:

This one does address that even though Casey's parents uttered these things outside of a court statement, even though they may possibly hearsay, they can still be used by prosecution for other purposes -
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3082375&postcount=60

Pulling this one from another thread, as an answer to this would be great, too. Is JG's statement also hearsay?
OH! GA/CA's lawyer might have advised Lee to get his own - GA/CA will have spousal immunity, which means they can't testify against each other or testify as to what the other person said, but Lee wouldn't be covered.

Also, if GA/CA are fully cooperative now and there is no "bombshell" like GA seeing/smelling something on the gas can day, I don't think they'll be in much trouble. People will chalk up their absurd behavior to the old addage "if you think something enough maybe it will come true" etc etc. I still feel awful for them... geeze.

ALSO BIG QUESTION- to any of the litigation/trial based lawyers/law lovers (Miracles Happen, where are you?)- Could Jesse's testimony that KC told him that Lee came in her bedroom be introduced in court, or would it be hearsay? I'm pretty sure Nate's testimony that tony told him that KC told him that GA(?) abused her would be excluded since its a story of a story... but wouldn't KC have to get on the stand really to get this stuff admitted? Unless she pressed charges now (since I don't think there is a statute of limitations for sexual abuse anymore...? (not sure about FL actually))

Thanks!!
 
Here is one thread from December where some of this was discussed:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75997&highlight=hearsay

This post was pretty good in discussing the tapes themselves: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3022383&postcount=91

The thread veers of topic a little bit (Christmas baking and cooking going on,) but if you stick it out from page 3 on to the end, there are some good posts about hearsay.

Thanks for the links, Tater. It seems that most of the videos and audio tapes would not be hearsay, but that still leaves CA getting on the stand and saying "Casey told me that Zanny............"

PGWoodhouse (spelled that wrong I bet) seems to think that since Casey said something directly to CA - it would be admissible. That is the issue I was wondering about.
 
Florida Evidence Code

Title VII EVIDENCE

Chapter 90 EVIDENCE CODE


90.801 Hearsay; definitions; exceptions.--
(1) The following definitions apply under this chapter:
(a) A "statement" is:
1. An oral or written assertion; or
2. Nonverbal conduct of a person if it is intended by the person as an assertion.
(b) A "declarant" is a person who makes a statement.
(c) "Hearsay" is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.
(2) A statement is not hearsay if the declarant testifies at the trial or hearing and is subject to cross-examination concerning the statement and the statement is:
(a) Inconsistent with the declarant's testimony and was given under oath subject to the penalty of perjury at a trial, hearing, or other proceeding or in a deposition;
(b) Consistent with the declarant's testimony and is offered to rebut an express or implied charge against the declarant of improper influence, motive, or recent fabrication; or
(c) One of identification of a person made after perceiving the person. History.--s. 1, ch. 76-237; s. 1, ch. 77-77; ss. 19, 22, ch. 78-361; ss. 1, 2, ch. 78-379; s. 2, ch. 81-93; s. 497, ch. 95-147.

TY Themis.

ETA: that is only the section that was posted in regards to Casey's Pastor. The Legal Eagles go on to say that there are around 30 exceptions to Hearsay Rules.
 
Thanks for the links, Tater. It seems that most of the videos and audio tapes would not be hearsay, but that still leaves CA getting on the stand and saying "Casey told me that Zanny............"

PGWoodhouse (spelled that wrong I bet) seems to think that since Casey said something directly to CA - it would be admissible. That is the issue I was wondering about.

I am reading back through my fav bookmarked legal posts, and that is my perception, too. Many of the things Casey said to her parents may be admissible to prove or show circumstance for one thing, but my be objected to as hearsay for a different purpose.
 
TY Themis.

ETA: that is only the section that was posted in regards to Casey's Pastor. The Legal Eagles go on to say that there are around 30 exceptions to Hearsay Rules.

OK, If I read that correctly (and I hope I did) in order for a lot of the 'stuff' that KC told CA or GA to be allowed, KC would have to testify that she did, indeed say it and then she would be open to cross examination! Well, we all know that JB would be insane to put KC on the stand, so I wonder if that will be relevant to whether the 'stuff' is allowed into evidence.
 
The following information was taken from http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/more-criminal-topics/evidence-witnesses/hearsay-evidence.html. It is not specific to the state of Florida, but maybe it can answer a few questions until the WS Legal Eagles can swoop in to answer the question.

"Hearsay" Evidence

The rule against hearsay is deceptively simple and full of exceptions. Hearsay is an out of court statement, made in court, to prove the truth of the matter asserted. In other words, hearsay is evidence of a statement that was made other than by a witness while testifying at the hearing in question and that is offered to prove the truth of the matter stated. For example, Witness A in a murder trial claimed on the stand: "Witness B (the "declarant") told me that the defendant killed the victim." The definition of hearsay is not too difficult to understand. But the matter can become very confusing when one considers all of the many exceptions to the general rule against hearsay.
Even if a statement meets the requirements for hearsay, the statement may yet be admissible under one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule. The FRE contains nearly thirty of these exceptions. Most of them are generally available, although a few of them are limited to times when the declarant is unavailable.
There are twenty-four exceptions in the federal rules that do not require proof that the person who made the statement is unavailable. These are:

  1. Business records, including those of a public agency
  2. Certain public records and reports
  3. Evidence of a judgment of conviction for certain purposes
  4. Evidence of the absence of a business record or entry
  5. Excited utterances or spontaneous statements
  6. Family records concerning family history
  7. Judgments of a court concerning personal history, family history, general history, or boundaries, where those matters were essential to the judgment
  8. Learned treatises used to question an expert witness
  9. Market reports, commercial publications, and the like
  10. Marriage, baptismal, and similar certificates
  11. Past recollections recorded
  12. Recorded documents purporting to affect interests in land
  13. Records of religious organizations concerning personal or family history
  14. Records of vital statistics
  15. Reputation concerning boundaries or general history
  16. Reputation concerning family history
  17. Reputation of a person's character
  18. Statements about the declarant's present sense impressions
  19. Statements about the declarant's then existing mental, emotional, or physical condition
  20. Statements in authentic ancient documents (at least 20 years old)
  21. Statements in other documents purporting to affect interests in land and relevant to the purpose of the document
  22. Statements made by the declarant for the purpose of medical diagnosis or treatment
  23. Statements of the absence of a public record or entry
  24. The "catchall" rule
 
OK, If I read that correctly (and I hope I did) in order for a lot of the 'stuff' that KC told CA or GA to be allowed, KC would have to testify that she did, indeed say it and then she would be open to cross examination! Well, we all know that JB would be insane to put KC on the stand, so I wonder if that will be relevant to whether the 'stuff' is allowed into evidence.

I do think a lot of it will be allowed into evidence, but not necessarily as 'fact'. I think, if I am reading everything correctly that the SA would admit some of these statements by the A's as possible examples of lies that can be proven in a very similar manner as we heard in the depos.

It can be proven independently that Casey was not in Jacksonville. Casey told her parents she was in Jacksonville. The SA could use/admit that part of the A's sworn statement that she has a history of lying.

I guess what I am taking away from my renewed reading, is that admissibility vs. hearsay really depends on what point the prosecutor is addressing when they try to admit statements. And that it does appear in this case as if many of the statements will go towards the totality of showing Casey's dishonesty. This is what she said --> this is what she did. Making it admissable?
 
The following information was taken from http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/more-criminal-topics/evidence-witnesses/hearsay-evidence.html. It is not specific to the state of Florida, but maybe it can answer a few questions until the WS Legal Eagles can swoop in to answer the question.

"Hearsay" Evidence

The rule against hearsay is deceptively simple and full of exceptions. Hearsay is an out of court statement, made in court, to prove the truth of the matter asserted. In other words, hearsay is evidence of a statement that was made other than by a witness while testifying at the hearing in question and that is offered to prove the truth of the matter stated. For example, Witness A in a murder trial claimed on the stand: "Witness B (the "declarant") told me that the defendant killed the victim." The definition of hearsay is not too difficult to understand. But the matter can become very confusing when one considers all of the many exceptions to the general rule against hearsay.
Even if a statement meets the requirements for hearsay, the statement may yet be admissible under one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule. The FRE contains nearly thirty of these exceptions. Most of them are generally available, although a few of them are limited to times when the declarant is unavailable.
There are twenty-four exceptions in the federal rules that do not require proof that the person who made the statement is unavailable. These are:

  1. Business records, including those of a public agency
  2. Certain public records and reports
  3. Evidence of a judgment of conviction for certain purposes
  4. Evidence of the absence of a business record or entry
  5. Excited utterances or spontaneous statements
  6. Family records concerning family history
  7. Judgments of a court concerning personal history, family history, general history, or boundaries, where those matters were essential to the judgment
  8. Learned treatises used to question an expert witness
  9. Market reports, commercial publications, and the like
  10. Marriage, baptismal, and similar certificates
  11. Past recollections recorded
  12. Recorded documents purporting to affect interests in land
  13. Records of religious organizations concerning personal or family history
  14. Records of vital statistics
  15. Reputation concerning boundaries or general history
  16. Reputation concerning family history
  17. Reputation of a person's character
  18. Statements about the declarant's present sense impressions
  19. Statements about the declarant's then existing mental, emotional, or physical condition
  20. Statements in authentic ancient documents (at least 20 years old)
  21. Statements in other documents purporting to affect interests in land and relevant to the purpose of the document
  22. Statements made by the declarant for the purpose of medical diagnosis or treatment
  23. Statements of the absence of a public record or entry
  24. The "catchall" rule

Excellent - thanks. So we would hope for more input on those bolded?
 
The following information was taken from http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/more-criminal-topics/evidence-witnesses/hearsay-evidence.html. It is not specific to the state of Florida, but maybe it can answer a few questions until the WS Legal Eagles can swoop in to answer the question.

Snipped

Thanks Americka! It doesn't look like any of KC's lies to CA would be covered by that list - except for the last 'catch all' one :)

I guess it is all going to come down to whether the prosecution or the defense does or does not want a specific piece of info introduced and they will fight that piece of info on a 'as it comes up' basis.

I guess I was hoping that 99% of what the A's are saying would be thrown out because it was all hearsay (not to mention it was also all lies - but if they threw out everything that was a lie - there wouldn't be much left, would there:rolleyes:)
 
In a nut-shell, if GA & CA testify as to what Casey said directly to them, it does not appear to be hearsay. If Lee were to testify that he heard Casey say something to his mom, then that would be hearsay.

I think it goes like this:

1. if person a testifies that person B told them something - it is not hearsay (Cindy testifies KC said she was in Jacksonville - admissiable)
2. if person a testifies that person B told them person C said something - it is hearsay (lee testifies that his Mom told him KC was in Jacksonville - hearsay)

Having said that, then there are the exceptions. And I think that's where it would be interesting to see very specific examples on this thread of some of the key points stated by the Anthoneys
 
I hope they put them on the stand just to badger them, heresay or not. Good thing I am not the D.A., my purpose of putting them on the stand would not be as much to convict KC, it would be more to make them eat their words.
 
Yeah, thanks to the civil depos we have CA on record saying she had multiple phone numbers and addresses for a Zanny over the years. That one's not hearsay.

Then there is GA testifying that he said the name "Zanny" to little Caylee just to find a look of recognition on her face - which also goes to his suspicions of his daughter at the time contrary to what he & CA claim now - that's also not hearsay.

CA said JG was the first person to use the term "nanny" in the A home, and that's how she believes "Zanny" became Zanny the Nanny". Those are CA's own words as well.

Cindy stated that didn't use those phone numbers and addresses to attempt to find Caylee after day 31, but why oh why didn't she use them before day 31 when she was so desperate to talk to her granddaughter? She could have even asked Zanny for Jeff Hopkin's number (KC said she was with Jeff), since Zanny was Jeff's ex- girlfriend. How can she possibly explain why she, let alone KC, has no records of attempted calls to Zanny?
 
Cindy stated that didn't use those phone numbers and addresses to attempt to find Caylee after day 31, but why oh why didn't she use them before day 31 when she was so desperate to talk to her granddaughter? She could have even asked Zanny for Jeff Hopkin's number (KC said she was with Jeff), since Zanny was Jeff's ex- girlfriend. How can she possibly explain why she, let alone KC, has no records of attempted calls to Zanny?

Page 20 of Cindy's deposition:

22 A From my knowledge, Casey told me there was
23 like four different addresses over the course of three
24 years, that she moved quite frequently.
25 Q And these four -- the addresses, then, and the
>Rough Draft - 24
1 phone numbers, they all came from Casey?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did Zenaida or Zanny, the person that you
4 believed was watching Caylee, did she in any way provide
5 to you a phone number or an address?
6 A No, never needed to talk to her.
7 Q Did she --
8 A I never needed to talk to her.
9 Q If the need arose that you needed to talk to
10 her, get ahold of her, would you have had to go to these
11 addresses and phone numbers that Casey gave you; is that
12 right?
13 A Yes, correct.
14 Q Did you ever dial or call or talk to this
15 person?
16 A No, I have not.




According to Cindy, she "never needed to talk to her." She had not seen her granddaughter in over a MONTH, but she never needed to speak to the nanny. It speaks volumes to me. She could not speak to someone she knew did not exist...IMO as usual
 
99% of what the Anthonys know about Zanny the Nanny, the 'kidnapping' and just about every other aspect of this case, they heard from Casey. So my question is will any of what they have said even be admissible in court? I thought hearsay was not allowed at any time - unless it was somethng like a 'dying declaration'.

If most of what they 'know' is hearsay and they will not be allowed to talk about it at trial - what does that leave them saying? I would imagine the jail house video tapes would be admissible because that is direct evidence of what each person was saying, but all the things that the Anthonys have said that Casey told them, would that be hearsay.

Take the Tampa trip - would the prosecution allow Cindy to talk about it so they could show that it was all a lie or would the defense object to it as hearsay?

Would the hearsay rule (if it is invoked) work as a tool for the prosecution or the defense?

If the prosecution seeks to admit CA's testimony of what KC said to her about the nanny, and all related nanny stories, none of it is hearsay for the simple reason that it is not being admitted to prove the truth of the matter stated. For example, can CA testify in the prosecution case that KC told her that Zanny had a car accident in Tampa? Yes. It is not hearsay because the prosecution doesn't believe there is a nanny or an accident in Tampa so they are not admitting the evidence to prove its truth--that the nanny had an accident in Tampa. They are admitting it to prove that KC made such a statement --not that the statement was true. That would be true about anything KC told CA about the nanny.
 
Cindy stated that didn't use those phone numbers and addresses to attempt to find Caylee after day 31, but why oh why didn't she use them before day 31 when she was so desperate to talk to her granddaughter? She could have even asked Zanny for Jeff Hopkin's number (KC said she was with Jeff), since Zanny was Jeff's ex- girlfriend. How can she possibly explain why she, let alone KC, has no records of attempted calls to Zanny?

If she was SO INTERESTED in talking to or seeing Caylee in those 31 days as she claimed, all she had to do was call one of those phone numbers or go to the address "she had" to do it. That will not set well with any story that she did not know she was missing. She posted on myspace that she did not know who she was with although KC told her she was with the nanny, so she did not believe there was a nanny or she would have tried to get in touch with Caylee through the nanny.
 
In a nut-shell, if GA & CA testify as to what Casey said directly to them, it does not appear to be hearsay. If Lee were to testify that he heard Casey say something to his mom, then that would be hearsay.

I think it goes like this:

1. if person a testifies that person B told them something - it is not hearsay (Cindy testifies KC said she was in Jacksonville - admissiable)
2. if person a testifies that person B told them person C said something - it is hearsay (lee testifies that his Mom told him KC was in Jacksonville - hearsay)


I'm no lawyer/legal expert but in your exampes I think it would work as follows:

In ex. 1, if the attorney's question is "Did your daughter tell you she was in Jacksonville on so and so date?" Cindy's yes or no answer is admissable.

The attorneys goal here is to establish whether KC did or didn't tell her mother this - period. (He might later prove she wasn't in Jacksonville by having some proof she was somewhere else, this would show KC was lying.) Or he may have some other plan, but either way, he can ask CA this question and her answer is not hearsay as to whether KC told her this. It is simply her testimony in answer to the question.


However, if the attorney asks to this affect: "Isn't it true that on so and so date your daughter KC was in Jacksonville?" CA: "Yes, she was." Att: "How do you know?" Cindy: "She told me she was." This not admissable. It's hearsay because she did not witness it firsthand, she heard it secondhand from KC.

OR Att: "Where was your daughter KC on so an so date?" CA: In J' ville." Att: "How do you know?" CA: "She told me so." I believe these would be hearsay because here Att would be trying to establish KC was or wasn't, in fact, in Jacksonville, based nothing but Cindy hearing it secondhand from KC. Secondhand knowledge is not admissable. One can only testify of firsthand knowledge, unless it is one of those lists of exceptions that were posted, such as having seen a written record.


If Cindy saw KC there, was there with her, etc., then it would not be hearsay, as she would have seen it firsthand. Att: "Were you in J'ville w/ KC . . . ?" or "Did you see KC in J'ville . . . ?" CA: "Yes" or "No. OR "Was KC in J' ville on so and so date?" Cindy can testify to KC's wherabouts because she is claiming she witnessed them firsthand The jury could choose to believe this or not. But, the testimony would be admissable. The other side could not object on the grounds of hearsay.

Obviously, just because a testimony is admissable, that does not mean it proves anything. Based on the totality of the evidence the jury must decide if they believe a person's testimony.

In ex. 2, it would basically be the same. Lee could testify that his mother told him KC was in J'ville, if the attorney is trying to establish whether or not CA told him that. It's admissable, as he is testifying concerning firsthand knowledge.

Lee's testimony that KC was in J'ville based on his mother having told him she was, would not be admissable. He can't testify of secondhand knowledge, it's hearsay. The attorney cannot use Lee's testimony of something he received secondhand in an attempt to establish whether KC was, or wasn't, in J'ville.

As for all the information KC gave GA and CA concerning Zanny and what happened to Caylee, it would be admissable as testimony only if addressing what KC told her parents or whether ot not she told them a specific thing. As in: "What did KC tell you happened to Caylee?" or "How long did KC tellyou she knew ZFG." They would be giving testimony re: firsthand experience about what their daughter told them. In this line of questioning, anything KC told them is admissable.

They can not, however, testify as to whether or not any of what she told them is true, or discuss it as if it is true, because they did not witness it firsthand, they only heard it, (i.e., it is, therefore, hearsay.

I hope this makes sense. As I said, I'm no lawyer. This is just my take on it. (I do watch lots of Boston legal though, LOL :) )
 
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