Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas #2

[Linda7NJ]

Child protection teams are supposed to have their own medical teams. Boston DCF does not but uses or relies on BCH. The judge on this case, who works with DCF and cases of child abuse, use to work as an attorney for BCH, and they supposedly helped get him into his position. That is another conflict of interest issue in this case. I still believe this initially came about because a zealous psychologist misjudged the situation because of her own bias and interest in Somatorform. Things snowballed from there because all authorities in this case are tied in some way to BCH. Just my opinion.

Some vast far reaching conspiracy that included two states, law enforcement, child protection in two states, guardian ad litem, the judge and multiple doctors in two states ?

That's seems more likely to you than the parents are uncooperative, make threats and generally throw a tantrum every time they don't get their own way?



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[CathyinTexas]

Some posters thought that Tufts did not want to get involved in treatment of Justina, but here is an article on the current status about it.

>Today, the Pelletiers had a private meeting with Justina’s healthcare team from Tufts Medical Center to receive information about her treatment plan. The Pelletiers are pleased to have Justina be treated by the medical experts at Tufts.

“After nearly 16 months of separation, Justina requires much healing - physically, emotionally, and spiritually,” said Staver. “The completion of the Plan is a very positive development and brings us almost full circle to where this process started, before DCF took custody of Justina: Tufts Medical Center is finally providing Justina’s healthcare once more,” said Staver.

http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100&PRID=1446

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wow...just....wow!


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[MyBelle]

Some posters thought that Tufts did not want to get involved in treatment of Justina, but here is an article on the current status about it.

>Today, the Pelletiers had a private meeting with Justina’s healthcare team from Tufts Medical Center to receive information about her treatment plan. The Pelletiers are pleased to have Justina be treated by the medical experts at Tufts.

“After nearly 16 months of separation, Justina requires much healing - physically, emotionally, and spiritually,” said Staver. “The completion of the Plan is a very positive development and brings us almost full circle to where this process started, before DCF took custody of Justina: Tufts Medical Center is finally providing Justina’s healthcare once more,” said Staver.

http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14100&PRID=1446

Hard to take anything put out by these people seriously when they always insert a request to donate money to them.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

Some vast far reaching conspiracy that included two states, law enforcement, child protection in two states, guardian ad litem, the judge and multiple doctors in two states ?

That's seems more likely to you than the parents are uncooperative, make threats and generally throw a tantrum every time they don't get their own way?



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Not the first time BCH removed the child with some rare disease from the parents, is it? Then put this child in Bader 5.
Just today the lawsuit was filed on a case that sounds remarkably similar to Justina's.
So I guess "major conspiracy" is not out of the question. Looks to me that BCH calls the shots and the rest follows suit.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not the first time BCH removed the child with some rare disease from the parents, is it? Then put this child in Bader 5.

Just today the lawsuit was filed on a case that sounds remarkably similar to Justina's.

So I guess "major conspiracy" is not out of the question. Looks to me that BCH calls the shots and the rest follows suit.

As I'm sure you're aware, anyone can FILE a lawsuit.

Just because someone feels wronged, doesn't mean they actually were.


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[jjenny]

As I'm sure you're aware, anyone can FILE a lawsuit.

Just because someone feels wronged, doesn't mean they actually were.


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And sometimes people actually are wronged.
This alleged case sounds so much like Justina's, some people were actually confused thinking the case was about her.
But it's not. And it doesn't sound like that girl had loud parents, as we haven't heard about this case until now. But BCH is still accused of doing virtually identical thing as it alleged to have done to Justina.

 

[K_Z]

Not the first time BCH removed the child with some rare disease from the parents, is it? Then put this child in Bader 5.
Just today the lawsuit was filed on a case that sounds remarkably similar to Justina's.
So I guess "major conspiracy" is not out of the question. Looks to me that BCH calls the shots and the rest follows suit.

Why is it so unbelievable that an urban, tertiary care, pediatric hospital with a specialty child psychiatry service, could diagnose another child with a major psychiatric disorder? I am beyond baffled that some folks immediately see "conspiracy", or "conflict of interest".

Is it a conspiracy if a major cardiac center diagnoses cardiac disorders? Are they out to manufacture and diagnose "imaginary" cardiac disease, where there is none, just to harass patients and families?

Do "cancer centers" diagnose and treat cancers, just to harass and oppress their patients, and generate income?

Yes, there are, sadly, kids with major psychiatric illnesses that require hospitalization at a tertiary care pediatric medical center. That's not a "vast conspiracy" to f@#! with people's lives, IMO. Sheesh.

 

[K_Z]

I still believe this initially came about because a zealous psychologist misjudged the situation because of her own bias and interest in Somatorform.

Snipped for focus.

No, clearly not just "one" over-zealous psychologist in the emergency department.

At trial, there was extensive psychiatric and medical testimony. Voluminous psychiatric and medical records were entered into evidence. Based on credible psychiatric and medical evidence, this court has found that Justina suffers from a persistent and severe Somatic Symptom Disorder. On December 20, 2013, his court found the MA DCF sustained its burden by clear and compelling evidence that Justina Pelletier is a child in need of care and protection pursuant to G.L. c 119 SS 24-26 due to the conduct and inability of her parents, Linda Pelletier, and Lou Pelletier, to provide for Justina's necessary and proper physical, mental, and emotional development.

BBM.

http://c.o0bg.com/rw/Boston/2011-2020/2014/03/25/BostonGlobe.com/HealthScience/Graphics/SCAN.pdf

 

[Donjeta]

So what is BCH supposed to do when they see another child who needs psychiatric care and a DCF intervention? Just shrug and say never mind, here's some coffee and donuts? Can't help you because we already put another child into Bader 5 last year and our quota is full until 2024? DCF, yeah, we've heard of them, I met a nice guy who works there and we're mandatory reporters but ugh, never mind, we're just gonna sit this one out?

 

[K_Z]

It amuses me that in order to meet the 'orders', the Pelletiers apparently went to some kind of counseling with Hokansen, the psychologist for Justina who saw her for years and years and years. Very convenient.

The fact that he saw Justina for years and years is bad somehow? I thought doctor shopping was bad. But apparently it's the other way around-going to the same doctor for years and yeas is bad.
Which one is it, actually?

I can't speak for i.b.nora, but my interpretation of that poster's comment is that it is rather a conflict of interest, and conveniently ironic, for the parents to "use" the same long-term counselor that has been involved with their daughter, for their own ordered psychiatric evaluations/ counseling. I'd think that they would be asked to each use different psych docs, and not ones involved previously with any of them, or their family members.

I guess the parents are "lucky" they were able to use such a biased evaluator. They should kind of "be quiet" about that, IMO. :facepalm:

 

[Donjeta]

I forget where the quote was but the parents or the lawyer said the family agreed to do family therapy either with Hokanson or with Dr. Keith Ablow who had had dinner with them and wrote an article saying they're a nice family because they have a dog that is same breed as his.

 

[K_Z]

So what is BCH supposed to do when they see another child who needs psychiatric care and a DCF intervention? Just shrug and say never mind, here's some coffee and donuts? Can't help you because we already put another child into Bader 5 last year and our quota is full until 2024? DCF, yeah, we've heard of them, I met a nice guy who works there and we're mandatory reporters but ugh, never mind, we're just gonna sit this one out?

Exactly. How about these imaginary Bader 5 staff meeting minutes:

"No, this new patient is too similar to another patient we treated last year. That's a conflict of interest, everyone, right? Looks too much like a big nasty conspiracy where we are just on a power trip messing with people's lives. It is hereby ordered for all providers to disregard this particular patient's symptoms and circumstances, and pretend everything is normal here. We don't want to appear to be harassing or biased in any way."

 

[K_Z]

I forget where the quote was but the parents or the lawyer said the family agreed to do family therapy either with Hokanson or with Dr. Keith Ablow who had had dinner with them and wrote an article saying they're a nice family because they have a dog that is same breed as his.

Mmmhmmm. Yup. Keith Ablow has had a bit to say about this.

http://pagesix.com/2014/04/14/keith-ablow-meets-with-parents-in-justina-pelletier-case/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/03/26/judge-ruling-in-justina-pelletier-case-outrage/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/04/17/my-dinner-with-family-justina-pelletier/

Seventh, after dinner, the Pelletiers introduced me to their dog, a champion Shiba Inu named The Last Samurai, aka “Sammy.” The dog had been waiting for them in their car. They’d left the window open a crack. Shiba Inu dogs are known for their independence and indomitable nature. No kidding, you wouldn’t own a Shiba if you wanted a lap dog. Trust me, I know. I have a Shiba Inu named Poppy. Or, more accurately, Poppy has me.

 

[Grammar]

Here is my problem with the whole situation, Justina was under a doctor's care. Her parents did not perform the surgery or tests on her, her physician did. I'm pretty sure they had to have had some type of insurance so the insurer was agreeing to the need and it's not like they agree to just any old thing. So, if the parents were being medically abusive to Justina, the physician and Tufts were too. Has BCH reported her treating physician to the state board? And why has Justina been kept in a locked psych unit? None of the literature I've read thus far, and I admit I haven't done as much reading as I'd like, suggests admitting patients with somatoform disorders to a psych unit.

Regarding the family liking the psychiatrist with the Shiba, it helps a lot if you feel comfortable with your counselor.

What I'm seeing is two hospitals and two groups of physicians disagreeing on a patient's diagnosis and playing one-upmanship. I don't like what I see.

 

[Donjeta]

Family liking the counselor is good for the cooperation usually but I think that the counselor having had cosy dinners and written defensive articles about future clients wouldn't be real professional. And Hokanson could be considered a not quite impartial party too since he has old opinions about the family and hypothetically if there was already some problem with medical abuse or negligence when he was treating Justina he might have already missed it once.

I think that in controversial DCF cases it would be best for the counselor to be someone new and unbiased who hasn't already made up their mind in any direction before he takes the case.

 

[sweetmom]

Dr. Ablow is best known for being a Fox news contributor and having co-authored a book with Glenn Beck. He's pretty controversial for "diagnosing" people he has actually never talked to and loves being in the spotlight. He toyed with running as a Republican for the Senate seat vacated by John Kerry but ONLY if all the other Republican candidates in the primary agreed to drop out first. Surprise: none of them agreed to, and he dropped his plan.

Here is some info from Wikipedia:

"While providing Fox News television "medical analysis" of the October 11th, 2012 Vice Presidential debate, Ablow strongly and repeatedly suggested that some of Vice President Joe Biden's behaviors, such as interruptions of the opposing candidate and what he believed to be excessive laughter, might mean that he should be evaluated for dementia, alcoholism, or other conditions.[22] "I'm not diagnosing him," he clarified. "I haven't evaluated him. But psychological testing - It's anyone's guess what it would show." Psychologist John Grohol questioned Ablow's ethical behavior in an article on Psych Central, a website he created for the accurate dissemination of authoritative mental health information to the public. Citing Section 7, Article 3 of the APA's "Principles of Medical Ethics...,"[23] he accused Ablow of a double standard.[24] "He prefaces his comments with a standard disclaimer media doctors often try to use to make it sound more ethical. Dr. Keith Ablow acknowledges he’s never seen Joe Biden in a professional capacity. Yet, Dr. Ablow is discussing differential diagnoses about Biden as though he had...Would anyone feel comfortable being judged by a medical professional like Dr. Ablow based upon a single incident like this?" At the time of Ablow's comments, however, he was no longer affiliated with the APA and not bound to its ethical standards.

<modsnip>

Keith Ablow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[believe09]

Child protection teams are supposed to have their own medical teams. Boston DCF does not but uses or relies on BCH. The judge on this case, who works with DCF and cases of child abuse, use to work as an attorney for BCH, and they supposedly helped get him into his position. That is another conflict of interest issue in this case. I still believe this initially came about because a zealous psychologist misjudged the situation because of her own bias and interest in Somatorform. Things snowballed from there because all authorities in this case are tied in some way to BCH. Just my opinion.

:clap: Agreed. Welcome to influence peddling in the state of MA. A number of layers that may ensure a bias in favor of BCH's possible need to CYA. It seems likely that Justina will be returned to her family shortly and then the real work of reintroducing her to her life will start. I wonder if she will ever view a trip to the doctor's office or the ER the same way ever again?

 

[jjenny]

Here is my problem with the whole situation, Justina was under a doctor's care. Her parents did not perform the surgery or tests on her, her physician did. I'm pretty sure they had to have had some type of insurance so the insurer was agreeing to the need and it's not like they agree to just any old thing. So, if the parents were being medically abusive to Justina, the physician and Tufts were too. Has BCH reported her treating physician to the state board? And why has Justina been kept in a locked psych unit? None of the literature I've read thus far, and I admit I haven't done as much reading as I'd like, suggests admitting patients with somatoform disorders to a psych unit.

Regarding the family liking the psychiatrist with the Shiba, it helps a lot if you feel comfortable with your counselor.

What I'm seeing is two hospitals and two groups of physicians disagreeing on a patient's diagnosis and playing one-upmanship. I don't like what I see.

ITA. All the tests and procedures were done by the doctors, not the parents themselves. She did have insurance, and insurance approved all of the procedures. Patients with somatoform aren't normally locked up in secure psychiatric units for prolonged period of times.

 

[jaunty-girl]

I can't speak for i.b.nora, but my interpretation of that poster's comment is that it is rather a conflict of interest, and conveniently ironic, for the parents to "use" the same long-term counselor that has been involved with their daughter, for their own ordered psychiatric evaluations/ counseling. I'd think that they would be asked to each use different psych docs, and not ones involved previously with any of them, or their family members.

I guess the parents are "lucky" they were able to use such a biased evaluator. They should kind of "be quiet" about that, IMO. :facepalm:

It is a conflict of interest and it's unethical. When my husband and I went to marriage counseling, the counselor told us that we should seek a little independent therapy and she wouldn't see either one of us one on one. She said if she did that we could never see her again as a couple.

The parents using that same therapist goes back to something previously mentioned by someone (I apologize I can't remember who) that it's a red flag when patients/families latch on to 1 doctor as if they are the only ones that could ever understand. This family and their dynamic is flashing lights and red flags everywhere. I don't blame professionals for looking at the situation with a side eye.