Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[princesspjs]

Court appointed a doctor from a different hospital to examine her.
Doctor agreed she was brain dead.
Three additional doctors examined her.
In total six doctors examined her and all said she was brain dead.

I don't see that in the court documents. At the time that Dr Fisher examined her, there was only ONE valid doctor's evaluation and it was NOT one of the doctors who found her brain dead.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Aww, thanks..it also helped me to see the family's side a lot more.

Does it sound to anyone else like the 3rd CHO doctor didn't find her brain dead?

Can't they do a scan type of test to show whether or not there is brain activity instead of just physical observation?

if there is ANY doubt, don't unplug. That's all her parents are asking. Doesn't seem
Unreasonable to me.


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[jjenny]

There is no blood flowing to her brain. There is no electrical activity in her brain.
"In addition, an imaging test showed no blood flow to Jahi's brain, while another showed no sign of electrical activity."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/30/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

 

[jjenny]

if there is ANY doubt, don't unplug. That's all her parents are asking. Doesn't seem
Unreasonable to me.


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What doubt? Seriously? Six specialists all agree she is brain dead.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'd like to think that it would be possible for parents to simply take their child out of a hospital, but there might be situations in which that would not be possible. For instance, I think that medical staff could call Child Protection Services if they thought that the parents were not acting in the best interests of the child. There would be a strong chance that parents would immediately lose custody of the child, and any voice in that child's care. They would have to explain why their actions were not abusive, ie. neglecting the medical needs of the child. The parents would then have to hire a lawyer and prove they are fit to have custody of their child, and might have to agree to follow protocol laid down by CPS agents. (I'm referencing the current situation happening with BCH which may not be correct for this thread. Mods please snip if needed.) Could someone with more direct knowledge about this question correct any errors in what I've written? I think it's a really interesting point. Thanks.

Ahhhh,...But there lies the rub. The hospitals stance is she's dead. CPS wouldn't be an option.
The coroner agreed to the transfer, correct?


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[Linda7NJ]

What doubt? Seriously? Six specialists all agree she is brain dead.

They found a judge and a doctor.
That is all the doubt they need. IMO

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[jjenny]

They found a judge and a doctor.


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Judge never said she isn't brain dead. That doctor didn't say it either. That doctor says she isn't dead, but considering he thinks being brain dead isn't the same as being dead, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Judge never said she isn't brain dead. That doctor didn't say it either. That doctor says she isn't dead, but considering he thinks being brain dead isn't the same as being dead, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

I'm quite sure ( no link) the judge found some legal cause for concern. Do you agree?

I find it very hard to believe this judge believes 100% that she is brain dead and extended the date til Jan 7 based on nothing but sympathy, emotion or that he's a stupid man.




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[scmom]

Snipped from the writ filed today:
This is a case regarding a catastrophic injury to a 13-year-old little
girl named Jahi McMath. Petitioner, a young child, sustained massive
injuries (including a traumatic brain injury) as a result of the negligence of
the Children's Hospital of Oakland...

 

[princesspjs]

What doubt? Seriously? Six specialists all agree she is brain dead.

Perhaps Jahi is brain dead now.

But back on 12/11 when she was examined by 3 CHO doctors and the only one out of those 3 doctors whose report was not nullified said she was NOT brain dead.

Now she probably IS brain dead...but what about on 12/11???? We will never know. I take that very seriously!!

 

[jjenny]

I'm quite sure ( no link) the judge found some legal cause for concern. Do you agree?

I find it very hard to believe this judge believes 100% that she is brain dead and extended the date til Jan 7 based on nothing but sympathy, emotion or that he's a stupid man.




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I have no clue why he extended it. But he already decided she is brain dead.
"Doctors and a judge have declared her brain dead and said there's no chance Jahi will come back to life."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/30/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

 

[vlpate]

Here is the outpatient treatment facility mentioned in the article.

How in the world are the going to care for her there.

http://www.nbli.org/

An MD on twitter says this is the location - Riverhead Patch
It is not even built yet.

 

[jjenny]

Perhaps Jahi is brain dead now.

But back on 12/11 when she was examined by 3 CHO doctors and the only one out of those 3 doctors whose report was not nullified said she was NOT brain dead.

Now she probably IS brain dead...but what about on 12/11???? We will never know. I take that very seriously!!

Where does it say anything of the sort in the court document? What doctor you claim decided she was not brain dead? I dont' see anything of the sort.

 

[SophieRose]

Aww, thanks..it also helped me to see the family's side a lot more.

Does it sound to anyone else like the 3rd CHO doctor didn't find her brain dead?

Can't they do a scan type of test to show whether or not there is brain activity instead of just physical observation?

All the doctors found her brain dead, it's just the third doctor did not testify in court, only two were needed. The two that did testify each had privileges at CHO so were not considered independent. At least one doctor has to be independent. And then the family's attorney complained in the document that one of the doctors who testified did not bring her notes to court. The court ruled on Dec 20 that an independent doctor examine and do all the tests on Dec 23. A pediatric neurologist from Stanford approved by hospital and family examined her on Dec 23, testified to court on Dec 24 that she was brain dead.

Someone posted all the tests required for brain teat and they are not all physical observation.

 

[scmom]

The attorney for the McMath family wants another judge to agree with their position that Jahi has suffered a TBI rather than brain death. I don't see how he is going to establish that as fact without something more than the theory of a doctor who doesn't believe in brain death.

 

[princesspjs]

All the doctors found her brain dead, it's just the third doctor did not testify in court, only two were needed. The two that did testify each had privileges at CHO so were not considered independent. At least one doctor has to be independent. And then the family's attorney complained in the document that one of the doctors who testified did not bring her notes to court. The court ruled on Dec 20 that an independent doctor examine and do all the tests on Dec 23. A pediatric neurologist approved by hospital and family examined her on Dec 23, testified to court on Dec 24 that she was brain dead.

Someone posted all the tests required for brain teat and they are not physical observation.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Had nothing to do with where they practiced. Please read the court document.

Even the hospital admits that only the two doctors whose reports were nullified found her brain dead at the beginning. The 3rd doctor who examined her early on did NOT find her brain dead.

I believe the actual court documents over a msm article's headline any day of the week.

JAHI'S COURT DOCS

 

[princesspjs]

Where does it say anything of the sort in the court document? What doctor you claim decided she was not brain dead? I dont' see anything of the sort.

“On December 11, 2013, Dr. Shanahan, a physician from CHO, declared that MCMATH was brain dead. Dr. Heidersbach, another CHO physician verified Dr. Shanahan’s findings.”

“In support of their position CHO submitted Declarations of Robert Heidersbach, MD, Sharon Williams, MD, and Robin Shanahan, MD. Of these three physicians, Dr. Hidersbach (sp?) and Dr. Shanahan were doctors who examined Jahi and testified by way of declaration that Jahi suffered irreversible cessation of all functions of her entire brain, including her brain stem.” CHO argued that the two doctors meet the requirements of Health and Safety Code section 7181.

During oral arguments on December 20, 2013, over an objection by Real Party in Interest’s counsel, the court found that Drs. Heidersbach and Shanahan did not satisfy the requirements of Health and Safety Code Section 7180 and 7181”

 

[jjenny]

Absolutely nothing in what you just quoted here suggests any physican decided she was not brain dead. "Did not satisfy the requirements" simply means the physicans were not independent enough per judge's view since both had privileges at the same hospital.

 

[shana]

Re #517

And...?

The Court's final decision was what.

~jmo~

 

[jjenny]

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Had nothing to do with where they practiced. Please read the court document.

Even the hospital admits that only the two doctors whose reports were nullified found her brain dead at the beginning. The 3rd doctor who examined her early on did NOT find her brain dead.

I believe the actual court documents over a msm article's headline any day of the week.

JAHI'S COURT DOCS

What third doctor? I see nothing in the court documents to support what you are claiming.