Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[dh109977]

This little fact still remains.

A child bled so much her heart FAILED in the ICU of a major children's hospital. IMO that should never happen. Children shouldn't bleed to death under those circumstances.

We have only heard half the story. The court papers state that the grandmother and stepfather both used the suction on Jahi. That alone could of worsened the situation. Now the bleeding itself could very well be a complication of the surgery.

 

[Herat]

Isn't Christopher Dolan himself suggesting that one of his goals is in fact to set a precedent?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-case-could-set-precedent-for-parents-rights/

Uh. Sure. Go ahead.

Bring on the AMA, every professional medical society in the country, every coroner's association, every hosptial in the country, every nursing home in the country, CMA (Medicare) carriers, Medicaid, and every health insurance company in the country that would have to pay for care.

Sure. Be my guest.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Isn't Christopher Dolan himself suggesting that one of his goals is in fact to set a precedent?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-case-could-set-precedent-for-parents-rights/

Is obviously needed. IMO it needs clarification.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Herat, I confirmed with an experienced trial attorney who handles death cases all the time that the uncle cannot recover absent some special relationship. If her parents were deceased and he was her guardian, for example.

Doesn't mean the mom can't throw him a mill or two, though. I'm sure he's counting on it. jmo

Imagine his surprise when she does NOT.

 

[Linda7NJ]

We have only heard half the story. The court papers state that the grandmother and stepfather both used the suction on Jahi. That alone could of worsened the situation. Now the bleeding itself could very well be a complication of the surgery.

If that's true, where were the nurses?

 

[fruity]

Did he say he is a beast? Or that he's beast? I ask because the grade school and middle school kids in my area say something is beast when they think something is cool, or awesome. My son uses the word beast often.

Quote: your uncle is a BEAST!

https://mobile.twitter.com/_iamOMARI/status/420048959365586944

 

[Herat]

:floorlaugh:

The issue then becomes ....do doctors have sole authority of your child's medical care after you sign them in? For any and ALL procedures or emergencies?

You already have authority over certain parts of your child's or your own care:

It's called Informed Consent.

 

[dh109977]

If that's true, where were the nurses?

T


That hasn't been said. But they have other patients they don't sit vigil next to bedsides the whole time. Common sense would tell someone not to play with the equipment go get a nurse.

 

[Softail]

This little fact still remains.

A child bled so much her heart FAILED in the ICU of a major children's hospital. IMO that should never happen. Children shouldn't bleed to death under those circumstances.

I agree, however there are zero facts as to what really happened at this point. Lots of rumors. ZERO facts. Until the facts come out, nobody knows.

It is my opinion that the hospital has been shushed by the family, because the FACTS won't help them..

 

[Linda7NJ]

Uh. Sure. Go ahead.

Bring on the AMA, every professional medical society in the country, every coroner's association, every hosptial in the country, every nursing home in the country, CMA (Medicare) carriers, Medicaid, and every health insurance company in the country that would have to pay for care.

Sure. Be my guest.

I don't believe that would be an issue.
I don't believe there is a person on this thread that would want what Jahi's mother does. It's rare. It should be treated with the upmost compassion. IMO it should have never come to this.

 

[mck16]

I consider it my responsibility to read, consider, and question any and all medical procedures done on me or any member of my family. I know that not everybody like me, but I really don't understand allowing any surgical procedure to be done on a loved one without investigating and weighing the risks.

Perhaps the doctors glossed over the risks or the mother did not do her own research, but, IMHO, she signed a paper that made her aware that there were risks, even if the procedure was considered routine. If she signed such a paper, it is really her responsibility to understand what she was signing.

I know the family of this girl is heartbroken, but perhaps some good to come out of this is that people will take more time to consider the risks and potential outcomes of non-emergency surgery and will weigh all other options.

I read early on that Jahi had in the past had issues with blood clotting time and that this was not divulged to the doctors.

 

[fruity]

Do you know for a fact she had been scheduled for ICU? If so, please provide a link.

Not Herat but I still have the link from my other post.

http://wqad.com/2013/12/17/girl-predicts-devastating-outcome-of-her-own-tonsillectomy/

Grandmother: 'as part of the procedure she was meant to spend the night in ICU'.

 

[Karmady]

I think the ventilator should be disconnected...but I absolutely refuse to bash the family in any way.

And I'll address the uncle and the $30k.
The video of the uncle mentioning the $30k was on Dec 17, they had just gotten the attorney CD. In CD's letter to the hospital sent in the middle of the night (I think 3 am) on Dec 17, he mentions the $250k cap and that it would be cheaper for the hospital if the ventilator was pulled. The uncle is just pulling a number $30k out of his head at that point for medical care, and he's not talking about any civil rights suits because the attorney had only entered the case a few hours before that.

I think the largest medical malpractice suit in California is $17k for an infant.

$30k or $30 million?

eta: never mind. violated the read-on rule Thanks softail!

 

[dh109977]

I read early on that Jahi had in the past had issues with blood clotting time and that this was not divulged to the doctors.

Oh my that right there is probably the most important thing they should have told drs.

 

[Linda7NJ]

You already have authority over certain parts of your child's or your own care:

It's called Informed Consent.

You would happened to have a copy of the standard informed consent that patience sign would you?
I don't ever recall signing over right to decide end of life decisions for my child upon admittance to a hospital.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I read early on that Jahi had in the past had issues with blood clotting time and that this was not divulged to the doctors.

That's nothing more than a rumor at this point.

 

[fruity]

In the back of my mind, I want to protect NW, her father, step father and Jahi's siblings from witnessing Jahi's decline. It is my profound hope that they will be able to remember her for the lovely girl she was while alive. There is undoubtedly a marked change from what she looked like pre-op to how she looks today.

Without going into detail, I wish I had had that option in 1982 when my 20 year old brother was brought into the ER where I was working with a GSW to the head. He died 40 minutes later. When I think of my funny, extremely smart, handsome brother, the image I have of him is on that stretcher with bloody gauze on his head. I have to actively try to go to the happy images/memories and it is a conscious effort.

I don't want NW to think of her lovely daughter on a ventilator, showing signs/smells of decomposition. I don't want her to remember these agonizing days, months or years from now. For this reason, I pray that Jahi's heart stops soon. Perhaps NW coping mechanisms are much stronger than mine were and this will never be an issue. That I can hope for. JMV

You have an amazing heart. You say you're losing empathy for the family but I think you're selling yourself short. I think you care a lot.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not Herat but I still have the link from my other post.

http://wqad.com/2013/12/17/girl-predicts-devastating-outcome-of-her-own-tonsillectomy/

Grandmother: 'as part of the procedure she was meant to spend the night in ICU'.

From your link
“After the surgery, she (Jahi) was fine. She went into the recovery room. She was alert and talking, and she was asking for a Popsicle because she said her throat hurt. As part of the procedure, she was meant to spend the night in ICU,” Sealey said. “When she got moved to ICU, there was a 30-minute wait until any family member could go see her. Upon entry, they saw that there was way too much blood.”
“She lost four pints of blood. She had to have four blood transfusions. She had two liters of blood pumped out of her lungs, not including what was in her stomach,” Sealey said. “There was an enormous amount of blood, and we kept asking, ‘Is this normal?’ Some nurses said I don’t know and some said yes. There was a lot of uncertainty and a lack of urgency.”

 

[Herat]

I'm really tired of people parsing bits of information of questionable validity about the surgery and her post-op care. We have not seen the medical record nor should we until the courts say we should. I'm not gonna talk any more about it because it's just foolish to pretend we have any valid information.

I wish her mother would turn away from spitting and raging at CHO and turn toward what she is allowing to happen to the physical shell of her daughter.

She can have her day in court. She is owed that, for sure.

But right now she and her children need to find a way to put their rage behind them and get to the real facts of what is happening. She has to be noticing the changes. I really hope that being out of CHO and in a "safer" place for her, she can reconcile what the expert physicians she trusted have told her, and the physical changes and lack of progress that even the post-mortem physician has told her.

I don't think Dolan is helping this family at all. He is only giving them unreasonable expectations and simplistic messages. I feel he is really preying up on them for his own ends.

 

[fruity]

From your link
“After the surgery, she (Jahi) was fine. She went into the recovery room. She was alert and talking, and she was asking for a Popsicle because she said her throat hurt. As part of the procedure, she was meant to spend the night in ICU,” Sealey said. “When she got moved to ICU, there was a 30-minute wait until any family member could go see her. Upon entry, they saw that there was way too much blood.”
“She lost four pints of blood. She had to have four blood transfusions. She had two liters of blood pumped out of her lungs, not including what was in her stomach,” Sealey said. “There was an enormous amount of blood, and we kept asking, ‘Is this normal?’ Some nurses said I don’t know and some said yes. There was a lot of uncertainty and a lack of urgency.”

Are you debating that this happened? I'm not sure I understand your point sorry. You'll have to spell it out a little more clearly for me.