Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

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In response to the questions asked above about damage suffered during long drop hanging, I'm going to post a link to a medical research article. Please consider your own sensibilities before clicking on this link. There are post mortem photographs of hanging victims that may be very disturbing to some readers.

The article is very frank, and includes detailed photos and medical and forensic analysis of the injuries suffered by hanging victims who were decapitated by their long drop. You can then compare the damage RZ suffered, as described in her autopsy report.

The abstract has no pictures, however. If you click on the pdf view of the full article in the right column, you can see the whole article. You do not need to create an account to read the article in pdf view.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...in_Suicidal_Hanging_-_Vital_Reaction_Patterns
 
From page 5 of the article:

hangingarticle1.png


Compare this to RZ's autopsy comments about the muscle and neck damage. This source, and others I've read, lead me to believe she was alive when the muscles were torn, which equates to alive with a beating heart when hung.
 
In response to the questions asked above about damage suffered during long drop hanging, I'm going to post a link to a medical research article. Please consider your own sensibilities before clicking on this link. There are post mortem photographs of hanging victims that may be very disturbing to some readers.

The article is very frank, and includes detailed photos and medical and forensic analysis of the injuries suffered by hanging victims who were decapitated by their long drop. You can then compare the damage RZ suffered, as described in her autopsy report.

The abstract has no pictures, however. If you click on the pdf view of the full article in the right column, you can see the whole article. You do not need to create an account to read the article in pdf view.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...in_Suicidal_Hanging_-_Vital_Reaction_Patterns

From page 5 of the article:

hangingarticle1.png


Compare this to RZ's autopsy comments about the muscle and neck damage. This source, and others I've read, lead me to believe she was alive when the muscles were torn, which equates to alive with a beating heart when hung.

I have had 2 acquaintences hang themselves......I will never understand why someone would choose to do that rather than take pills, as it is an extremely violent way to go.
 
In response to the questions asked above about damage suffered during long drop hanging, I'm going to post a link to a medical research article. Please consider your own sensibilities before clicking on this link. There are post mortem photographs of hanging victims that may be very disturbing to some readers.

The article is very frank, and includes detailed photos and medical and forensic analysis of the injuries suffered by hanging victims who were decapitated by their long drop. You can then compare the damage RZ suffered, as described in her autopsy report.

The abstract has no pictures, however. If you click on the pdf view of the full article in the right column, you can see the whole article. You do not need to create an account to read the article in pdf view.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...in_Suicidal_Hanging_-_Vital_Reaction_Patterns


Hi K_Z, thank you for the reference. I haven't read it all yet but leaf through the paper.

You've been very patient about responding, I appreciate that! I'm not sure if my post implied I thought RZ would be decapitated, but that wasn't what I meant! I was more concerned that there could be some length of drop and hence severity of damage between say a 9 foot drop and a 4-5 foot drop. I hope I'm making sense. It seems like based on weight and length of rope more damage should have occurred, but maybe not if, in fact, she was hung but it was a couple feet shorter.

Somehow I think I'm the only one having a quandry here. I'm just trying to resolve what you have said since I very much respect your opinion and what Wecht said.
 
Hi K_Z, thank you for the reference. I haven't read it all yet but leaf through the paper.

You've been very patient about responding, I appreciate that! I'm not sure if my post implied I thought RZ would be decapitated, but that wasn't what I meant! I was more concerned that there could be some length of drop and hence severity of damage between say a 9 foot drop and a 4-5 foot drop. I hope I'm making sense. It seems like based on weight and length of rope more damage should have occurred, but maybe not if, in fact, she was hung but it was a couple feet shorter.

Somehow I think I'm the only one having a quandry here. I'm just trying to resolve what you have said since I very much respect your opinion and what Wecht said.

I thought you were hinting at decapitation potential, time, so I'm sorry if i misunderstood. I do think that with a 9' 2" drop, and her weight, decapitation could have been a true possibility. The neck muscle tearing was a prelude, I think. I discussed that at length with some experts over a year ago when I first wrote her autopsy review. As the article referenced above discusses, decapitation potential is dependent on more that victim weight and drop length. Ligature positioning, and ligature diameter and material (stretchiness, etc) also factor in, with other things. If you read further in the article, it discusses laryngeal damage patterns, and ligature marks and patterns. Some of that is consistent with Rebecca's laryngeal damage, so all of the damage could have just been from the long drop. However, Cyril Wecht mentioned the absence of posterior damage as something of concern, and if i understood him correctly, it seems to me he implied that some kind of strangulation preceding the long drop could have been a possibility.

With manual strangulation (hands) as some have speculated, preceding long drop, there would not be a second distinct ligature mark. Manual strangulation leaves different evidence, more like bruising.
 
I thought you were hinting at decapitation potential, time, so I'm sorry if i misunderstood. I do think that with a 9' 2" drop, and her weight, decapitation could have been a true possibility. The neck muscle tearing was a prelude, I think. I discussed that at length with some experts over a year ago when I first wrote her autopsy review. As the article referenced above discusses, decapitation potential is dependent on more that victim weight and drop length. Ligature positioning, and ligature diameter and material (stretchiness, etc) also factor in, with other things. If you read further in the article, it discusses laryngeal damage patterns, and ligature marks and patterns. Some of that is consistent with Rebecca's laryngeal damage, so all of the damage could have just been from the long drop. However, Cyril Wecht mentioned the absence of posterior damage as something of concern, and if i understood him correctly, it seems to me he implied that some kind of strangulation preceding the long drop could have been a possibility.

With manual strangulation (hands) as some have speculated, preceding long drop, there would not be a second distinct ligature mark. Manual strangulation leaves different evidence, more like bruising.

Thank you! I just thought Wecht expected more damage, but all you have said is helpful.

I took the second strangulation to probably be by a cord or something. Quester asked just a couple pages back if she was remembering correctly that some wire was missing from the chandelier (if anyone knows, chime in).

I do think it's possible that she was either strangled first with something else to possibly control her (as I've said, maybe even to make her cut the ropes or paint the message), but it could have been she passed out or both. It would make tying her up easier and possible tossing off the balcony. I somehow hate saying all this because it sounds so dry and cold.
 
Thank you! I just thought Wecht expected more damage, but all you have said is helpful.

I took the second strangulation to probably be by a cord or something. Quester asked just a couple pages back if she was remembering correctly that some wire was missing from the chandelier (if anyone knows, chime in).

I do think it's possible that she was either strangled first with something else to possibly control her (as I've said, maybe even to make her cut the ropes or paint the message), but it could have been she passed out or both. It would make tying her up easier and possible tossing off the balcony. I somehow hate saying all this because it sounds so dry and cold.

BBM - I ended up removing that post because I couldn't find where I had read that tidbit or if it was just a figment of my imagination. Will post if I find something. But, yes, anyone please chime in if you recollect a report of missing chandelier wire ... otherwise we'll have to chalk it up to rumor or not the case.

ETA: When the AR on RZ was released, I remember trying to imagine what could have caused that thinner mark around her neck and I do remember thinking of the chandelier electrical wire so it may have gotten into my head from that.
 
I think there is some evidence that Becky was thrown over the balcony as reviewed by MEs -- both in San Diego and Dr. Wecht -- based on the extensive damage suggestive of a hanging to her throat area. There was also a second thin ligature mark that also suggested possible strangulation that was done not by the rope noose. The extent of Becky's torn neck area and the multiple ligature marks suggest to me that she was both strangled and tossed over the balcony like a piece of garbage by the perps.

As I've said before, I'm still on the fence about Adam's involvement in Becky's murder. One thing I am 100% positive of is that Becky was murdered. Based on all the available physical evidence, she did not commit suicide.

If you listen to the 911 tape made by Adam from a neutral perspective, and from the understanding that Adam may have some social deficits -- awkwardness in answering questions and inappropriate replies to questions -- you might be able to see that in a state of uncertainty, shock, and ignorance about how to handle a hanging (I'm assuming he found Becky hanging as he stated to cops), and the fact that the 911 operator asked him if Becky were still alive, he simply repeated what the operator asked, "Are you alive" to Becky, rather than fully comprehending the ramifications of his questions to a probably already dead Becky.

Also, I do recall from my own personal CPR training, that the first thing we were instructed to always ask a possible victim is "Are you okay?" and pat them on their shoulders in case they were only sleeping or they were semi-conscious. "Are you okay" may be analogous to "Are you alive" in Adam's mind at that time. IDK

I think from those of us looking in from the outside, because of Jonah's wealth and professional success vs. that of Adam's, based on purely societal's definitions of success, we see that there may be some jealousy of Adam towards Jonah. But then, I also think, that socioeconomic status is not all that defines a genuinely successful, happy person, and some people, perhaps Adam, might have recognized his own limitations and did not feel the need to compare himself with Jonah's financial success. So unless we have some proof in the form of personal testimonies from Adam's friends or even family members, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he might not have been jealous of Jonah.

Also based on what Ann Rule wrote, that Jonah always invited Adam to family functions, and Adam seemed to always attend, and there was no mention of any conflicts at these functions, I think it is safe to say that Adam likely did not resent nor was he jealous of Jonah. I can be wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence of Adam's resentment towards Jonah before automatically casting him as a jealous, resentful brother to Jonah.

Re: Adam texting Jonah. It appears this family seems to text more than make voice calls to each other. But I understand what you're saying, because generally when there's an emergency, we want to make sure the other person we're calling hears the exact message regarding the crisis rather than text them in words. But in this case, given Adam's awkward words and conduct, maybe Adam felt more comfortable texting than voicing the incident. Maybe he feared he'd say the wrong thing orally, but texting felt safer and more accurate to him. I'm just thinking aloud.

I don't think Adam would admit to viewing *advertiser censored* on his Iphone if he knew Becky's computer had been accessed the day before for Asian anime bondage/lesbian *advertiser censored*. But it'd be most helpful if we were given the types of *advertiser censored* Adam engages in regularly. If he does watch the same type of *advertiser censored* found on Becky's computer, then perhaps he is involved in Becky's murder. On the other hand, it could also mean that the perps knew about Adam's propensity towards a specific type of Asian *advertiser censored* and decided to frame him as a patsy. LOL IDK, I'm still on the fence regarding Adam.

OK. This keeps coming up. I don't think that Adam just blithely mentioned that, la dee dah, he had been watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone. In a lie detector test, the examiner asks questions in order to establish a baseline of truth telling and then notes the bodily responses. The examinee will be asked questions such as , what were you doing .......blah blah blah..........at such and such a time, etc. When the examiner asks a question that produces a truthful answer, a baseline is established. When the examiner asks a question that knowingly produces a lie, another baseline is established.
 
I think there is some evidence that Becky was thrown over the balcony as reviewed by MEs -- both in San Diego and Dr. Wecht -- based on the extensive damage suggestive of a hanging to her throat area. There was also a second thin ligature mark that also suggested possible strangulation that was done not by the rope noose. The extent of Becky's torn neck area and the multiple ligature marks suggest to me that she was both strangled and tossed over the balcony like a piece of garbage by the perps.

As I've said before, I'm still on the fence about Adam's involvement in Becky's murder. One thing I am 100% positive of is that Becky was murdered. Based on all the available physical evidence, she did not commit suicide.

If you listen to the 911 tape made by Adam from a neutral perspective, and from the understanding that Adam may have some social deficits -- awkwardness in answering questions and inappropriate replies to questions -- you might be able to see that in a state of uncertainty, shock, and ignorance about how to handle a hanging (I'm assuming he found Becky hanging as he stated to cops), and the fact that the 911 operator asked him if Becky were still alive, he simply repeated what the operator asked, "Are you alive" to Becky, rather than fully comprehending the ramifications of his questions to a probably already dead Becky.

Also, I do recall from my own personal CPR training, that the first thing we were instructed to always ask a possible victim is "Are you okay?" and pat them on their shoulders in case they were only sleeping or they were semi-conscious. "Are you okay" may be analogous to "Are you alive" in Adam's mind at that time. IDK

I think from those of us looking in from the outside, because of Jonah's wealth and professional success vs. that of Adam's, based on purely societal's definitions of success, we see that there may be some jealousy of Adam towards Jonah. But then, I also think, that socioeconomic status is not all that defines a genuinely successful, happy person, and some people, perhaps Adam, might have recognized his own limitations and did not feel the need to compare himself with Jonah's financial success. So unless we have some proof in the form of personal testimonies from Adam's friends or even family members, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he might not have been jealous of Jonah.

Also based on what Ann Rule wrote, that Jonah always invited Adam to family functions, and Adam seemed to always attend, and there was no mention of any conflicts at these functions, I think it is safe to say that Adam likely did not resent nor was he jealous of Jonah. I can be wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence of Adam's resentment towards Jonah before automatically casting him as a jealous, resentful brother to Jonah.

Re: Adam texting Jonah. It appears this family seems to text more than make voice calls to each other. But I understand what you're saying, because generally when there's an emergency, we want to make sure the other person we're calling hears the exact message regarding the crisis rather than text them in words. But in this case, given Adam's awkward words and conduct, maybe Adam felt more comfortable texting than voicing the incident. Maybe he feared he'd say the wrong thing orally, but texting felt safer and more accurate to him. I'm just thinking aloud.

I don't think Adam would admit to viewing *advertiser censored* on his Iphone if he knew Becky's computer had been accessed the day before for Asian anime bondage/lesbian *advertiser censored*. But it'd be most helpful if we were given the types of *advertiser censored* Adam engages in regularly. If he does watch the same type of *advertiser censored* found on Becky's computer, then perhaps he is involved in Becky's murder. On the other hand, it could also mean that the perps knew about Adam's propensity towards a specific type of Asian *advertiser censored* and decided to frame him as a patsy. LOL IDK, I'm still on the fence regarding Adam.

I agree 1000% I think a true , balanced and compassionate summary of many observations i have had about AS. Great post Bourne. thank you!

I also have felt for a long time that she was thrown off the balcony. Evil parallel to the explanation of M's accident- that " he fell from the bedroom" But then wonder if there would not have been more disturbance of dust up there on the balcony. Which leads me to question-- if the PD measured RZ's stature feet size etc on the balcony and railing to other people involved in this case. How tall are DS and NR?
 
I agree 1000% I think a true , balanced and compassionate summary of many observations i have had about AS. Great post Bourne. thank you!

I also have felt for a long time that she was thrown off the balcony. Evil parallel to the explanation of M's accident- that " he fell from the bedroom" But then wonder if there would not have been more disturbance of dust up there on the balcony. Which leads me to question-- if the PD measured RZ's stature feet size etc on the balcony and railing to other people involved in this case. How tall are DS and NR?
There were other prints on the balcony as per Dr Maurice Godwin's report:
http://www.investigativepsych.com/shoeprintanalysis.html

Dina is very tall, Nina less tall, both significantly taller than Rebecca's 5'3 1/2". IMO the killers held RZ on her feet at the very edge between the door jam and the balcony, thus leaving the "V" print, then carried her to the edge of the railing, set her down partially to get a better hold on her, thus leaving partial left big toe print, then tilted her over the railing on her left side like a sack of dirt. Thus such a small disturbance on the railing itself and no "flattening" of skin leaving more of a pancake-type pattern.
 
OK. This keeps coming up. I don't think that Adam just blithely mentioned that, la dee dah, he had been watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone. In a lie detector test, the examiner asks questions in order to establish a baseline of truth telling and then notes the bodily responses. The examinee will be asked questions such as , what were you doing .......blah blah blah..........at such and such a time, etc. When the examiner asks a question that produces a truthful answer, a baseline is established. When the examiner asks a question that knowingly produces a lie, another baseline is established.

I don't think he la dee da brought it up during polygraph/ interview -- although according to Ann Rule's book he did spontaneously blurt out to cops when they showed up early wed upon his 911 call that his "bedside manner is not that bad."

Likely he told police about *advertiser censored* viewing when they asked him what he did tues night into wed. Nevertheless, most people would not admit viewing *advertiser censored* so readily. I think his forthright admission goes along with his blunt awkward conduct & words. The more I think about it the less I believe Adam or Jonah were involved in Becky's murder.
 
There were other prints on the balcony as per Dr Maurice Godwin's report:
http://www.investigativepsych.com/shoeprintanalysis.html

Dina is very tall, Nina less tall, both significantly taller than Rebecca's 5'3 1/2". IMO the killers held RZ on her feet at the very edge between the door jam and the balcony, thus leaving the "V" print, then carried her to the edge of the railing, set her down partially to get a better hold on her, thus leaving partial left big toe print, then tilted her over the railing on her left side like a sack of dirt. Thus such a small disturbance on the railing itself and no "flattening" of skin leaving more of a pancake-type pattern.

I agree that the murderers threw her over like a sack of dirt. They likely rested her on the balcony railing before pushing her over. That may be one reason why the drop did not result in a long hanging.
 
There were other prints on the balcony as per Dr Maurice Godwin's report:
http://www.investigativepsych.com/shoeprintanalysis.html

Dina is very tall, Nina less tall, both significantly taller than Rebecca's 5'3 1/2". IMO the killers held RZ on her feet at the very edge between the door jam and the balcony, thus leaving the "V" print, then carried her to the edge of the railing, set her down partially to get a better hold on her, thus leaving partial left big toe print, then tilted her over the railing on her left side like a sack of dirt. Thus such a small disturbance on the railing itself and no "flattening" of skin leaving more of a pancake-type pattern.

I was just about to mention it when I saw your post, so....thank you. Dr. Maurice Godwin did show that another footprint was on the balcony and I believe it came from an EVA flip flop ( or else that was the type of sole in the flip flop). Anyway, does anyone know what type of footwear Nina was wearing with her stylish new yoga pants that fateful evening when she walked over to talk with Rebecca? ( the night of the murder). Does anyone know what type of footwear Dina was wearing that night when she was seen pacing in front of the mansion and exhibiting strange and unusual behavior ( the night of the murder)?

BTW, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Dr. Godwin.
 
I was just about to mention it when I saw your post, so....thank you. Dr. Maurice Godwin did show that another footprint was on the balcony and I believe it came from an EVA flip flop ( or else that was the type of sole in the flip flop). Anyway, does anyone know what type of footwear Nina was wearing with her stylish new yoga pants that fateful evening when she walked over to talk with Rebecca? ( the night of the murder). Does anyone know what type of footwear Dina was wearing that night when she was seen pacing in front of the mansion and exhibiting strange and unusual behavior ( the night of the murder)?

BTW, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Dr. Godwin.
According to her interview, she says she was wearing Reeboks.. As to Dina, would be a good question for the witnesses who saw her pacing back and forth.

I second the motion: Bring back the good Dr. Godwin!!
 
I was just about to mention it when I saw your post, so....thank you. Dr. Maurice Godwin did show that another footprint was on the balcony and I believe it came from an EVA flip flop ( or else that was the type of sole in the flip flop). Anyway, does anyone know what type of footwear Nina was wearing with her stylish new yoga pants that fateful evening when she walked over to talk with Rebecca? ( the night of the murder). Does anyone know what type of footwear Dina was wearing that night when she was seen pacing in front of the mansion and exhibiting strange and unusual behavior ( the night of the murder)?

BTW, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Dr. Godwin.


I obviously don't know a lot about the back story. I think it had something to do with Dr. Phil ... but maybe the Zahau attorneys will come back to Dr. Godwin's expertise later? I thought it was great, but I think he made a mistake talking about any ritual connection.
 
I obviously don't know a lot about the back story. I think it had something to do with Dr. Phil ... but maybe the Zahau attorneys will come back to Dr. Godwin's expertise later? I thought it was great, but I think he made a mistake talking about any ritual connection.

I tend to agree with you, that had Dr. Godwin not added the ritual connection, his analyses and theories may have been considered more seriously.
 
I tend to agree with you, that had Dr. Godwin not added the ritual connection, his analyses and theories may have been considered more seriously.

I wonder if there is another expert out there that would be willing to look at those photos? If this one expert says the "unknown flip flop" footprint is there, there should be another to collaborate that. Not being an expert in these things, it would be very hard for a lay person to confirm what they see. (Please see the radar online article or Dr. Godwin's link all available in the stickies for this case). However, it's also super weird that SDSO allowed one of their own to be on the scene, actually ON THE BALCONY, to leave a shoe print that they tell us belongs to one of them. Did the video the processing of the scene? Is there something that shows us that the ooops print by LE that overlaps the unknown print was actually an accidental scene contamination?

Always, MOO
 
BBM - I ended up removing that post because I couldn't find where I had read that tidbit or if it was just a figment of my imagination. Will post if I find something. But, yes, anyone please chime in if you recollect a report of missing chandelier wire ... otherwise we'll have to chalk it up to rumor or not the case.

ETA: When the AR on RZ was released, I remember trying to imagine what could have caused that thinner mark around her neck and I do remember thinking of the chandelier electrical wire so it may have gotten into my head from that.
In her letter dated 9/10/2012 to Coronado's Chief of Police Louis Scanlon (page 3, pp2) Dina lists a number of "glaring mistakes" made by CPD's investigation into Max's death, the second of which (#2) is "misplacing evidence from the evidence locker, i.e. the link that connected the chandelier to the chain that was photographed and retrieved at the scene".

http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

Is this maybe the "missing chain" you (and time) are thinking of?
 
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