FBI considering hate crime charges against Zimmerman #1

[HiHater]

I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.

The date?

 

[AJ Noiter]

I did not hear an "un" sound and even more importantly, I did not hear a "K" sound at the end. I don't know why it would be weird, though...

Here's the thing about audio recordings. First a little background, followed by a short story. For many years I did "paranormal investigating" where we would capture these pesky little things called "EVPs" or Electronic Voice Phenomena, where "voices" from "no where" were recorded. I was the skeptic and technician in my group, which is why I'm no longer with them - I was a bit too skeptical. I did some tests with my group one night. As we were "investigating" a cemetery I went off with my cousin and he made some strange nonsensical whispers into my audio recorder. Later that night when we were going over the "evidence" we would let someone else listen to what we got on our recorder. Ashley listened to my tape and she heard the word "boondoggle," which is an odd word in itself. When she heard it she told the other investigators "I just heard the word boondoggle, come listen!" and through the power of suggestion everyone else heard the word "boondoggle" except one person. That one other person did not hear the exclamation about the word because they were out of the room. When they heard it they thought the word was "froglegs." This was really odd considering it was a nonsensical whisper.

The moral of the story above is that if someone tells you "it's possibly the word goons" you're probably going to hear the word "goons." If you listen to it without a suggestion as to what it is you may come up with something completely different. When I first heard this 911 tape I thought it was a nonsensical word, maybe slang I hadn't heard before.

 

[JBean]

I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.

Perhaps since it is being touted as breaking news all over-- I assumed ( and possibly erroneously) that originally the talk of hate crimes was just idle speculation; this sounds as though it is confirming the original suspicion and the FBI actually is looking at this in that light.

 

[Karmady]

How do we know what that statement in the PCA was based on? Perhaps they took Zimmerman's version? I don't think this locks the state into anything. Most of the time, PCAs are filed way earlier on and an investigation may continue, right? :moo::moo::twocents:

Again, my point is if they thought that word was something other than punks, they wouldn't have said anything at all about it and just went with the other allegations, including "these *advertiser censored**holes." Why would they want to explain having alleged "punks" after all the uproar about c**ns, especially if they would have to explain why they changed there minds later. I'm 1000% convinced, but ymmv

 

[vlpate]

It isn't. The fact that it is month-and-a-half old news was discussed in another thread, with a link. I know I've commented on it a bunch of times in the context of the State not filing its own hate crime charges, even though Fla. has a statute, and using the word "punks" in the affidavit instead of the slur. Can't imagine why they decided to regurgitate it today.

One line buried in an ABC article from today: "Zimmerman is also the subject of an FBI investigation into a possible hate crime committed against 17-year-old Martin."
ABC Link

 

[JBean]

The idea behind a forum as opposed to one general thread is to break out each topic into discussion. If those of you that don't find this newsworthy or otherwise aren't interested, don't discuss it-truly is that simple.
You can scroll by threads that are not of interest to you. That is a big part of the reason a forum is set up so one is not stuck in the middle of a conversation they find redundant or unimportant.
Sometimes topical threads overlap and it is hard to isolate a topic to one thread. But now that this topic has its own thread it doesn't have to be rehashed in other threads and that is how the forum evolves and forms.

You will find it helpful when searching for information in the future.It is particularly helpful during trial and hearings so we can easily find out what was said by whom without going through a hundred threads and bump old conversation.

if this had been a topical thread when it was originally discussed, we could have just bumped the discussion with this potentially new information and we could have just continued on with all our old posts in one place.
hth.

 

[Karmady]

The word right from the horse's mouth. The FBI going door-to-door at twin lakes as of April 5th, focusing specifically on whether the shooting was racially motivated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46966048/ns/msnbc_tv-politicsnation/t/politicsnation-monday-april/

I am VERY interested in the FBI investigation.

ETA: maybe as early as April 2nd, depending on whether you go by the date of the update.

 

[Reader]

The idea behind a forum as opposed to one general thread is to break out each topic into discussion. If those of you that don't find this newsworthy or otherwise aren't interested, don't discuss it-truly is that simple.
You can scroll by threads that are not of interest to you. That is a big part of the reason a forum is set up so one is not stuck in the middle of a conversation they find redundant or unimportant.
Sometimes topical threads overlap and it is hard to isolate a topic to one thread. But now that this topic has its own thread it doesn't have to be rehashed in other threads and that is how the forum evolves and forms.

You will find it helpful when searching for information in the future.It is particularly helpful during trial and hearings so we can easily find out what was said by whom without going through a hundred threads and bump old conversation.

if this had been a topical thread when it was originally discussed, we could have just bumped the discussion with this potentially new information and we could have just continued on with all our old posts in one place.
hth.

Personally, I'm glad you opened the thread, JBean, as I think it is important to the case and needs to be separate from the state case, in the event GZ is charged with a hate crime.

Here is a link to the FBI Hate Crimes site that has a lot of good information:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes


FBI Jurisdiction

A hate crime is not a distinct federal offense. However, the federal government can and does investigate and prosecute crimes of bias as civil rights violations, which do fall under its jurisdiction. These efforts serve as a backstop for state and local authorities, which handle the vast majority of hate crime cases. A 1994 federal law also increased penalties for offenses proven to be hate crimes.

 

[vlpate]

Personally, I'm glad you opened the thread, JBean, as I think it is important to the case and needs to be separate from the state case, in the event GZ is charged with a hate crime.

Here is a link to the FBI Hate Crimes site that has a lot of good information:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties." Angel's Link to FBI Hate Crime Unit

That's a pretty high bar. I've seen nothing to demonstrate GZ hates the entire black race. In fact, just the opposite. Even the detective, Gilbreath, said he was profiling TM as a criminal.

I'm interested in this investigation as well!

 

[mommakk51]

It's not just the young black folks, and the word was made very popular by the rap artist Lil' Wayne. From what I know, it has nothing to do with sports, and more to do with street culture, or what may also be called " life."

JMO MOO

Yes, you are right about that. I went back and did some more reading, and found that it was indeed about life. They even have a place they call gooncity. There's some real interesting videos on youtube about that area of Florida. Especially Carol City and Miami.
Not that I think Tray was involved in that. I think that both Tray and GZ were good guys, and that it was someone else trying to make them look bad. The waiting for the doc dumps is killin' me!

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[Concerned Papa]

The word right from the horse's mouth. The FBI going door-to-door at twin lakes as of April 5th, focusing specifically on whether the shooting was racially motivated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46966048/ns/msnbc_tv-politicsnation/t/politicsnation-monday-april/

I am VERY interested in the FBI investigation.

ETA: maybe as early as April 2nd, depending on whether you go by the date of the update.

If they go door to door, they will apparently hear one resident say this:

Zimmerman told neighbors about stolen laptops and unsavory characters.

They discussed the topic with Zimmerman when the watch captain knocked on their door late last year, Ibrahim Rashada said.

“He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one.

“I do have a weapon, but I don’t walk around the neighborhood with mine!”

Actually, he does not walk around the neighborhood at all.

“I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ ”

For walks, he goes downtown. A pregnant Quianna listened to her husband’s rationale, dropped her head, and cried.

“That’s so sad,” she said. “I hope our child doesn’t have to go through that.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

While others say this:

A 17-year-old African-American, Teontae Amie, who lives at the Retreat, recalled that Mr. Zimmerman once wrongly accused his friend of stealing a bike. “When you see him, you think automatically that he might try something,” said Teontae, who added that he kept his distance from the neighborhood watch coordinator.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...s-a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Travis Williams, a black 16-year-old who wears dreadlocks, said last year a man came to his house and accused him of stealing a bicycle.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

I'm reasonably certain the FBI would have no difficulty in getting THIS guy to talk:

The Twin Lakes Retreat is ethnically mixed….. Taaffe said it had been nearly all white.

Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority.

Foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe

“There were Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down,” Mr. Taaffe said.

He suspects Zimmerman....."reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said

“I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working,” Taaffe said. “He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.”

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...es-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter?lite

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...s-a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

I don't know much about what it takes to qualify as a "hate" crime...

"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties." Angel's Link to FBI Hate Crime Unit

That's a pretty high bar. I've seen nothing to demonstrate GZ hates the entire black race. In fact, just the opposite. Even the detective, Gilbreath, said he was profiling TM as a criminal.

I'm interested in this investigation as well!

I just know, if the FBI goes door to door, they're not always gonna "feel the love".

 

[HiHater]

Again, my point is if they thought that word was something other than punks, they wouldn't have said anything at all about it and just went with the other allegations, including "these *advertiser censored**holes." Why would they want to explain having alleged "punks" after all the uproar about c**ns, especially if they would have to explain why they changed there minds later. I'm 1000% convinced, but ymmv

ymmv? LOL My mind sees yummy...

We can agree to disagree. I think the word may very well be c*ons, only time will tell!

 

[HiHater]

"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties." Angel's Link to FBI Hate Crime Unit

That's a pretty high bar. I've seen nothing to demonstrate GZ hates the entire black race. In fact, just the opposite. Even the detective, Gilbreath, said he was profiling TM as a criminal.

I'm interested in this investigation as well!

2 things...it says "in whole or in part." That's actually lowering the bar IMO.

Also, bias =/= hate.

Synonyms
2. predisposition, preconception, predilection, partiality, proclivity; bent, leaning. Bias, prejudice mean a strong inclination of the mind or a preconceived opinion about something or someone. A bias may be favorable or unfavorable: bias in favor of or against an idea. Prejudice implies a preformed judgment even more unreasoning than bias, and usually implies an unfavorable opinion: prejudice against a race. 9. predispose, bend, incline, dispose.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bias

:moo::twocents:

 

[suzihawk]

If they go door to door, they will apparently hear one resident say this:



While others say this:



I'm reasonably certain the FBI would have no difficulty in getting THIS guy to talk:



I don't know much about what it takes to qualify as a "hate" crime...



I just know, if the FBI goes door to door, they're not always gonna "feel the love".

Then there's Frank Taaffe's own statement re: "if you plant corn, you get corn" where he says that Zimmerman was targeting young black males:

http://www.examiner.com/video/georg...-8-prior-burglaries-were-by-young-black-males

 

[cherishtoo]

"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation." Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties." Angel's Link to FBI Hate Crime Unit

That's a pretty high bar. I've seen nothing to demonstrate GZ hates the entire black race. In fact, just the opposite. Even the detective, Gilbreath, said he was profiling TM as a criminal.

I'm interested in this investigation as well!

I agree, I think you're right... it would definitely be a high bar to prove that GZ hates an entire race.

But, what do I know? I'm just a regular mother who has raised 3 kids. I'm not even black. I'm just regular. But there is something about this case, that is just not regular enough for me to just let it go.

I'm not sure that GZ profiled just a race. I think he profiled "a race" + "an age" and even possibly "an attitude".

I can even understand that if GZ felt threatened, he might pull out his trusty gun, that he shouldn't have been carrying in the first place.

So then Treyvon see's this gun.

Me myself, I have never seen a gun pointed at me. But I can tell you, the moment that I do, that's when everything changes. You know what, azz-ole, I just suddenly decided to defend myself, I'd rather die defending myself, so even if you're going to shoot me, I'm going to bash your head against the concrete first.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Down there in Florida, the young black folks call themselves GOONS. I think that is a term related to sports, because the football and basketball teams use it. I found this out by looking through about 50 facebook profiles of graduates from Liberty City high school and Michael Krop high school.

I highly doubt the word used was coon, since GZ's GRANDFATHER was BLACK. If it was either goons or punks, then that was relatively mild compared to what most "vigilante types" would say. (MF'rs.)

JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff..

BBM

In that article it states that is his mothers grandfather so it would be George's Peruvian great-grandfather if the picture is real and if he really is black. Did George even know this guy or identify with him? Did he ever write about him, talk about him with friends?

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/


In the meantime, a photograph recently surfaced which is said to show Zimmerman's mother in the arms of her grandfather, who is black.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI have opened an investigation into the "facts and circumstances" surrounding the killing of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teenager shot and killed last month by a neighborhood watch captain in an Orlando suburb.

The department will "conduct a thorough and independent review of all evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," according to a statement late Monday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/20/trayvon-martin-case-justice-department_n_1366101.html

 

[Alix]

SANFORD, Fla. —
WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.
State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

Good.

The very essence of profiling IS racism. Zimmerman targeted TM because he was black, period. Shame on anyone who claims Zimmerman was "defending" himself.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Good.

The very essence of profiling IS racism. Zimmerman targeted TM because he was black, period. Shame on anyone who claims Zimmerman was "defending" himself.

This URL disagrees with you: (Google: define: profiling)
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=pro....,cf.osb&fp=876ab73a83f9b48b&biw=1440&bih=747

Profiling may be race related, but it doesn't have to be.

 

[LynnM]

BBM

In that article it states that is his mothers grandfather so it would be George's Peruvian great-grandfather if the picture is real and if he really is black. Did George even know this guy or identify with him? Did he ever write about him, talk about him with friends?

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/


In the meantime, a photograph recently surfaced which is said to show Zimmerman's mother in the arms of her grandfather, who is black.

Having black relatives is no guarantee that a person is going to embrace diversity. It is entirely possible for someone to have black ancestry and hate blacks. There have been Jewish members of Nazi groups here in the U.S., something that you would think couldn't possibly happen - how could a man embrace a political movement that wants murder him? But it's happened and here's an example: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Burros"]Dan Burros - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]