First-Hand Impressions / WS Meetup

[SleuthyGal]

First, a heartfelt THANK YOU to Reddress58 for helping to spearhead our get together this morning. She also provided valuable guidance and a tour of the area. I took pictures, which I'll link to when I get them together.

We saw the dump site and it's a very different 'feel' than what pictures can show you. First of all it's small back there. Everything seems so much larger when you look at pics. The dump area is right off the side of the cul de sac turnaround...maybe 10 ft away, and there's a tiny embankment, and if you were walking nearby you might not immediately notice a body since it would be hidden by the embankment. However a dog would easily be attracted to a body there.

Beyond and all around the runoff pond there is *very heavy* tree coverage/brush. My immediate impression is THAT would have been the place to put a body if you wanted to hide your victim cause it is thick and heavily overgrown and I don't think anyone would be found for a long time. My feeling is that this was a quick 'dump' and run. Plus at night/early morning (prior to 6am) it would be pitch black back there--there are no lights so whoever did this likely dumped during that time and they would not have seen the heavy brush beyond, which would have been a more logical place to 'hide' a body.

We drove down Holly Springs Road and there is no way someone would ever choose to go jogging down that road. It is busy/heavily traveled, with no sidewalks at all, and only a few inches to separate you and cars on either side. We did see a few bikers out.

 

[stillblv]

First, a heartfelt THANK YOU to Reddress58 for helping to spearhead our get together this morning. She also provided valuable guidance and a tour of the area. I took pictures, which I'll link to when I get them together.

We saw the dump site and it's a very different 'feel' than what pictures can show you. First of all it's small back there. Everything seems so much larger when you look at pics. The dump area is right off the side of the cul de sac turnaround...maybe 10 ft away, and there's a tiny embankment, and if you were walking nearby you might not immediately notice a body since it would be hidden by the embankment. However a dog would easily be attracted to a body there.

Beyond and all around the runoff pond there is *very heavy* tree coverage/brush. My immediate impression is THAT would have been the place to put a body if you wanted to hide your victim cause it is thick and heavily overgrown and I don't think anyone would be found for a long time. My feeling is that this was a quick 'dump' and run. Plus at night/early morning (prior to 6am) it would be pitch black back there--there are no lights so whoever did this likely dumped during that time and they would not have seen the heavy brush beyond, which would have been a more logical place to 'hide' a body.

We drove down Holly Springs Road and there is no way someone would ever choose to go jogging down that road. It is busy/heavily traveled, with no sidewalks at all, and only a few inches to separate you and cars on either side. We did see a few bikers out.

Thanks for the update. That is so cool you all got to meet and do a field trip of the scene. Please do post pics! I wish I could have been there - alas, I am 14 hours away.

 

[CARYISHOME]

First, a heartfelt THANK YOU to Reddress58 for helping to spearhead our get together this morning. She also provided valuable guidance and a tour of the area. I took pictures, which I'll link to when I get them together.

We saw the dump site and it's a very different 'feel' than what pictures can show you. First of all it's small back there. Everything seems so much larger when you look at pics. The dump area is right off the side of the cul de sac turnaround...maybe 10 ft away, and there's a tiny embankment, and if you were walking nearby you might not immediately notice a body since it would be hidden by the embankment. However a dog would easily be attracted to a body there.

Beyond and all around the runoff pond there is *very heavy* tree coverage/brush. My immediate impression is THAT would have been the place to put a body if you wanted to hide your victim cause it is thick and heavily overgrown and I don't think anyone would be found for a long time. My feeling is that this was a quick 'dump' and run. Plus at night/early morning (prior to 6am) it would be pitch black back there--there are no lights so whoever did this likely dumped during that time and they would not have seen the heavy brush beyond, which would have been a more logical place to 'hide' a body.

We drove down Holly Springs Road and there is no way someone would ever choose to go jogging down that road. It is busy/heavily traveled, with no sidewalks at all, and only a few inches to separate you and cars on either side. We did see a few bikers out.

It sure would have been pitch black back there - which gets me to thinking whether he really could have driven right back there without his lights on. Wouldn't there be a strong chance he would run off the road? I can see driving down Fielding without lights - not totally convinced about the cul-de-sac. Seems like he would have at least had to have his running lights on.

So, that makes me think even more that he knew where the place was and how the roads turned.

 

[wirehair]

Sorry I couldn't make it. The dog threw up all night and we had to go to the vet this morning. Hope to see you next time.

 

[EntreNous]

Sorry I couldn't make it. The dog threw up all night and we had to go to the vet this morning. Hope to see you next time.

Since the Java Jive is about 500 mi. away I didn't get in on the meet-up either. I hope it was productive and can't wait to see pix!
Gosh Wirehair, hope your pooch is okay!

 

[reddress58]

This morning was an eye-opener. All in attendance agreed that NC would NOT run along Holly Springs Rd. and, therefore, her body was transported to the area where it was found. Also, there is one street light on that particular cul-de-sac, but since there is no development that far back, I doubt it would have been on the wee hours of Friday morning. All in all, a perfect scenerio for dumping a body without being detected. It may have been days before anyone found it if the gentleman walker had not decided to take a LOOONNNGGG walk. It is quite a distance from any completed, occupied homes. Yes, a construction worker could have spotted it soon enough, but no houses have been started or lots cleared on that particular cul-de-sac. Luckily, the man had his dog because if you didn't walk closer to the edge of the pavement, it would have been hard to spot the body from the street. I believe he said the dog drew his attention to walk in that direction.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for coming out and "holding my hand" while visiting the site. We all agreed it would have been pretty eerie to visit alone.

 

[Bob&Bob]

For those of you who were there I have a question.

On the Photos:No discussion thread, Post 2, which side
was the body on? The far side by the white stuff? Or the near
side by the black fencing kind of thing?

 

[reddress58]

For those of you who were there I have a question.

On the Photos:No discussion thread, Post 2, which side
was the body on? The far side by the white stuff? Or the near
side by the black fencing kind of thing?

Near side...in FRONT of the fencing. (...we're assuming because the ground was trampled with footprints and a bouqoet of dead white roses placed on the ground there.)

 

[Bob&Bob]

What's all the white stuff on the other side?

 

[reddress58]

What's all the white stuff on the other side?

It has nothing to do with the crime. Some kind of plastic tarp, but it can be found on all the drainage berms in that area of the neighborhood.

 

[Bob&Bob]

It has nothing to do with the crime. Some kind of plastic tarp, but it can be found on all the drainage berms in that area of the neighborhood.

Thanks.

Back to that Photo thread Post 2.

In relation to the guy with his back toward us with the
tan hat, where was the body?

 

[reddress58]

Thanks.

Back to that Photo thread Post 2.

In relation to the guy with his back toward us with the
tan hat, where was the body?

It's not even in that picture. It was to the left of all those men. (...we're guessing)

 

[jumpstreet]

Thanks.

Back to that Photo thread Post 2.

In relation to the guy with his back toward us with the
tan hat, where was the body?

I think the presumed exact spot is not inside the frame of that photo you reference (on the Photos thread). I think it's off to the left.

There are more photos (posted by JTF) [ref NC Thread #11, post #73] where an outline is drawn (by JTF) on one of the photos of the exact (presumed) spot. [ Might be nice to get these copied to the photos thread I suppose for completeness ]

I think think basis for presuming this is the spot is: (a) there were some flowers left at that spot, and (b) sheriff has said that the location was "just off the road".

So - I don't know if it's 100% certain that the spot marked in the photo is the "exact" spot, but it's probably a reasonable conclusion.

For those that were able to go to today (thanks for the info) - did anyone notice any other tributes (notes / flowers / etc) left there (at that same spot, or others?)

 

[Bob&Bob]

I think the presumed exact spot is not inside the frame of that photo you reference (on the Photos thread). I think it's off to the left.

There are more photos (posted by JTF) [ref NC Thread #11, post #73] where an outline is drawn (by JTF) on one of the photos of the exact (presumed) spot. [ Might be nice to get these copied to the photos thread I suppose for completeness ]

I think think basis for presuming this is the spot is: (a) there were some flowers left at that spot, and (b) sheriff has said that the location was "just off the road".

So - I don't know if it's 100% certain that the spot marked in the photo is the "exact" spot, but it's probably a reasonable conclusion.

For those that were able to go to today (thanks for the info) - did anyone notice any other tributes (notes / flowers / etc) left there (at that same spot, or others?)

Are there any other houses being built on that street?

 

[raisincharlie]

Let me ask - because there are floral arrangements at a location, the assumption is that was the location of the body ? How would the person placing the arrangement know that ? Unless it was LE or the man who found the body or the killer- I doubt anyone else knows the spot where Nancy's body came to a rest to be honest. The man in the 911 call says she was in the pond, but then again he saw vultures, which might have been huge crows , or turkey buzzards.

 

[jumpstreet]

Let me ask - because there are floral arrangements at a location, the assumption is that was the location of the body ? How would the person placing the arrangement know that ? Unless it was LE or the man who found the body or the killer- I doubt anyone else knows the spot where Nancy's body came to a rest to be honest. The man in the 911 call says she was in the pond, but then again he saw vultures, which might have been huge crows , or turkey buzzards.

It's a good point - my recollection is that the location of the flowers is the primary basis for where JTF outlined the (presumed) exact location in that photo. But yeah, that does assume that someone who left those flowers knew the exact spot.

The location of those flowers is curious in that it isn't just by the road, they do seem to have been left at an intentional spot (but perhaps whoever left them just "guessed"). As you mentioned, it could have been the person who made the discovery - I imagine it was pretty traumatic, and perhaps this was intended to be helpful gesture for some closure - but who knows.

[ It's somewhat why I was asking if there were any other tributes noticed there by those that went today (in the same location, other locations) - just curious ].

Finally, regarding the water, I think we've speculated that the current water level is much lower than what it was at the time of the find. [ Perhaps they drained it some when looking for evidence, perhaps it was higher after some rains ]. So, the exact spot could possibly have been in (or nearly in) the water at the time of discovery, but that spot is dry now.

 

[raisincharlie]

It's a good point - my recollection is that the location of the flowers is the primary basis for where JTF outlined the (presumed) exact location in that photo. But yeah, that does assume that someone who left those flowers knew the exact spot.

The location of those flowers is curious in that it isn't just by the road, they do seem to have been left at an intentional spot (but perhaps whoever left them just "guessed"). As you mentioned, it could have been the person who made the discovery - I imagine it was pretty traumatic, and perhaps this was intended to be helpful gesture for some closure - but who knows.

[ It's somewhat why I was asking if there were any other tributes noticed there by those that went today (in the same location, other locations) - just curious ].

Finally, regarding the water, I think we've speculated that the current water level is much lower than what it was at the time of the find. [ Perhaps they drained it some when looking for evidence, perhaps it was higher after some rains ]. So, the exact spot could possibly have been in (or nearly in) the water at the time of discovery, but that spot is dry now.

In the sky 5 video - LE is pumping out the pond and shoveling around in the mud.

 

[reddress58]

It's a good point - my recollection is that the location of the flowers is the primary basis for where JTF outlined the (presumed) exact location in that photo. But yeah, that does assume that someone who left those flowers knew the exact spot.

The location of those flowers is curious in that it isn't just by the road, they do seem to have been left at an intentional spot (but perhaps whoever left them just "guessed"). As you mentioned, it could have been the person who made the discovery - I imagine it was pretty traumatic, and perhaps this was intended to be helpful gesture for some closure - but who knows.

[ It's somewhat why I was asking if there were any other tributes noticed there by those that went today (in the same location, other locations) - just curious ].

Finally, regarding the water, I think we've speculated that the current water level is much lower than what it was at the time of the find. [ Perhaps they drained it some when looking for evidence, perhaps it was higher after some rains ]. So, the exact spot could possibly have been in (or nearly in) the water at the time of discovery, but that spot is dry now.

From the looks of the pictures, the water was even lower today than picture day. You can see where they have a hose draped over the white plastic, so I'm sure it was drained somewhat. There is a purple wreath stuck in th ground just off the pavement that we saw today. The dead roses are over the embankment and on the ground with many footprints surrounded it. Those footprints had to be made when the ground was wet and soft. They are hardened now. No other areas had vegetation that was trampled...thus our conclusion. Also remember, white roses were Nancy's favorite flowers. Whoever put them there possibly knew that. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect LE to show her parents/Brad where her body was found after they were finished with their crime scene work? Or do they keep that secret also?

 

[jumpstreet]

The dead roses are over the embankment and on the ground with many footprints surrounded it. Those footprints had to be made when the ground was wet and soft. They are hardened now. No other areas had vegetation that was trampled...thus our conclusion.

Good point.

Also remember, white roses were Nancy's favorite flowers. Whoever put them there possibly knew that. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect LE to show her parents/Brad where her body was found after they were finished with their crime scene work? Or do they keep that secret also?

Good question.

 

[fran]

Thank you for the information.

Glad you all were able to meet up.

fran