FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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My heart hurt so much!

I read one parent's acount about their daughter, who took a bullet to the back, completely shattering one of her lungs and all of her ribs... she also took several bullets to her shoulder that traveled the entire length of her left arm before exiting.

She's already had several surgeries to place a titanium rib cage amoung other things, and there will be more to come in the future.

And her parents say, they are "greatful". Very aware of those who lost their children forever.

I try not weigh in on motive, for these mass atrocities. The complexities are often beyond my understanding. I don't want to put on a veneer of simplicity, or suggest that enacting some legislation is the Holy Grail that we are all looking for here.

But tonight I want to say , In my opinion only... Americans are reaping what they've sown. Contrary to the spoiled rotten theory some subscribe to, I believe our children have been increasingly neglected, forgotten, disregarded, pressured, and abused.

My opinion will not be a popular one I'm sure, (but hey when has that ever stopped me?), take away the guns and you'll still be left with some angry, dead inside, violent, injured, psychopathic young people who will find a way to wreck havoc reguarless.

Way back when stay-at-home-mom became a dirty word (title?) we started to kick our young people to the curb.

You know... we can "Bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never ever let him forget he's a man"... remember that commercial? That Ad campaign? Yeah we haven't had time for our kids since then I think, and it's only gotten worse.

I see it every day...when I walk my reluctant 13 year old daughter to watch her get on the bus at 6:45 a.m. every morning (because I want to, not because I have to)... but I see barely three year old kids being shoved on school buses.. One little boy kicks and screams.. Every. Morning. They pry him off of his parent and toss them on to that bus everyday

Maybe it's a necessity for that family. I don't know but it can't be a good thing for that child. I often wonder how his emotional health will be in the future.


Many other countries have far, far more support for families than we do here in America.

We are even known as the "No Vacation Nation". Why is that a good thing? Why is that something we're proud of? That we work ourselves into early graves and neglect our youth and it's considered a good a "Work Ethic"?

Hell, at least we're not lazy! :mad:

American young people have become angrier, and more violent than ever. Why isn't it "Time" for a discussion about why that is?
Well said, Safeguard. Thank you.
 
so there is a divorce somewhere in family

history ??

not necessarily, maybe bio mom was never married and had children by multiple men. pretty common these days.
 
On CNN, reported the shooter fired over 150 shots. He had purchased 3 guns in the last year.
 
My heart hurt so much!

I read one parent's acount about their daughter, who took a bullet to the back, completely shattering one of her lungs and all of her ribs... she also took several bullets to her shoulder that traveled the entire length of her left arm before exiting.

She's already had several surgeries to place a titanium rib cage amoung other things, and there will be more to come in the future.

And her parents say, they are "greatful". Very aware of those who lost their children forever.

I try not weigh in on motive, for these mass atrocities. The complexities are often beyond my understanding. I don't want to put on a veneer of simplicity, or suggest that enacting some legislation is the Holy Grail that we are all looking for here.

But today I want to say , In my opinion only... Americans are reaping what they've sown. Contrary to the spoiled rotten theory some subscribe to, I believe our children have been increasingly neglected, forgotten, disregarded, pressured, and abused.

My opinion will not be a popular one I'm sure, (but hey when has that ever stopped me?), take away the guns and you'll still be left with some angry, dead inside, violent, injured, psychopathic young people who will find a way to wreck havoc reguarless.

Way back when stay-at-home-mom became a dirty word (title?) we started to kick our young people to the curb.

You know... we can "Bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never ever let him forget he's a man"... remember that commercial? That Ad campaign? Yeah we haven't had time for our kids since then I think, and it's only gotten worse.

I see it every day...when I walk my reluctant 13 year old daughter to watch her get on the bus at 6:45 a.m. every morning (because I want to, not because I have to)... but I see barely three year old kids being shoved on school buses.. One little boy kicks and screams.. Every. Morning. They pry him off of his parent and toss them on to that bus everyday

Maybe it's a necessity for that family. I don't know but it can't be a good thing for that child. I often wonder how his emotional health will be in the future.


Many other countries have far, far more support for families than we do here in America.

We are even known as the "No Vacation Nation". Why is that a good thing? Why is that something we're proud of? That we work ourselves into early graves and neglect our youth and it's considered a good a "Work Ethic"?

Hell, at least we're not lazy! :mad:

American young people have become angrier, and more violent than ever. Why isn't it "Time" for a discussion about why that is?

You nailed it Safeguard, thanks.

Back in the early 1970's there was much discussion among child behaviorists about the future effects of those
'newfangled' community day care centers where working moms started dumping their babies every day.

Many articles 'Predicted' we were raising a whole generation of Sociopaths due to this new phenomenon.
Parents were no longer 'raising' their own children but instead putting their emotional and physical rearing into the
hands of minimum wage daycare workers. As I said this was all predicted for our kid's future problems.

This is so memorable to me because my children were very young in 70's and I was looking at needing to go to work outside the home. Fortunate for me I was able to delay needing childcare until my children were a little older and in school full time.

Every single time I see news about another young person going off the rails, I am reminded of the debate of the 70's.
We seem to have that generation of sociopaths amongst us now. Can't turn back the clock and undo the damage.
 
I agree with the above about working parents. I feel every home should have one parent there, be it dad or mom. JMO. I have been fortunate to be able to be that parent in my house.
 
I believe one thing that needs to change is that whenever LE has an encounter/contact with someone, LE needs to report that. Without this paper trail nothing is ever found in the system whenever another LE agency looks up a person.

An example, MS FBI searching for Nikolas Cruz in the database will find that such a person has had encounters with LE in Broward County, FL etc jmo
This is the same challenge with CFS. Linked state and inter-agency databases would be a real milestone here for some continuity in repeat offenders or LE response incidents that warrant a watch flag.

So how do we do that without it becoming a federal government project? I am all for private enterprise tackling this project. Is that doable?
 
Could adoptive mom be a relative of bio mom? That would explain pic of her holding baby Nikolas well before she adopted him????

We don't know the circumstances of the relinquishment of these children. If this was a private adoption or an adoption of children who were in custody of the state. Depending on the circumstances, the finalization process can occur months to years from taking custody. Unlike international adoptions which are completed abroad with parents having to readopt or not back in the states, adoptions in the US have all kinds of hurdles that need to be addressed. For example, if a child is born in a state that requires both birth parents to sign the documents, it may take a while before both birth parents sign or, if they are unable to be contacted, there is a legal process that must be followed to terminate rights. We may or may not know why it took two years to finalize but I am not sure it matters. In my own adoptions, some were quick and the paperwork finished within a short time and others had bumps along the road that kept me going back and forth to family court in order to sort things out. The timing of finalization could be something as simple as the adopting family wanting to finalize both children at the same time to celebrate becoming one..... or not.

If this killer has FAS, Autism or any other issue, he was raised in a family with means that could give him the best opportunity to be successful. It certainly sounds like his behavior and ability to function well socially had diminished over time.
 
I believe one thing that needs to change is that whenever LE has an encounter/contact with someone, LE needs to report that. Without this paper trail nothing is ever found in the system whenever another LE agency looks up a person.

An example, MS FBI searching for Nikolas Cruz in the database will find that such a person has had encounters with LE in Broward County, FL etc jmo

Juvenile’s.

Their police records are kept in the dark. 30 plus police calls and a clean record when he purchased weapon. Maybe that needs to change, juvenile records forwarded to (NICS) insta-check.
 
Some interesting statistics:

- 2005-2018 mass shootings (3 or more fatalities): 62
- 1994-2004 mass shootings (3 or more fatalities): 17
- 1982-1993 mass shootings (3 or more fatalities): 18
- Shootings that included 1 or more semi-automatic/assault firearm/handgun or both: 73 out of 97
- 54 of those 73 were obtained legally
- 12 of those 73 were obtained illegally
- 7 of those 73 were obtained "unknown"
- 43 of those 73 had prior signs of a mental health issue
- 24 of those 43 had seen a doctor previously or had documented mental health related issues

Source: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Federal Assault Weapons Ban (1994-2004): The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, following a close 52–48 vote in the Senate, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision. There were multiple attempts to renew the ban, but none succeeded.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

DID YOU KNOW? Background checks are required by licensed dealers, but not private sellers, and will only show a history of mental illness if there has been a previous arrest, if it's been self reported and....

"Background checks are performed through a search of NICS. NICS includes four federal databases. Two of these—the Interstate Identification Index (III) and the NICS Index—contain records that may identify a person as disqualified from possessing firearms on the basis of mental health or developmental disability. The Interstate Identification Index includes mental health information that states have reported to the FBI as part of their criminal history records, such as findings of not guilty by reason of insanity or incompetence to stand trial. However, most state records that are in NICS and disqualify a person due to a mental health history or developmental disability exist in the NICS Index, not the III. ***Federal law does not require states to submit information to NICS; participation is strictly VOLUNTARY.***"

WHAT??? We are supposed to feel safe because background checks are performed, yet mental health professionals are not REQUIRED to submit information to the database. [emoji848]

Source: http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/mental-health-reporting/
 
I know someone that is in prison (life) sexual abuse 2 minor child. After the sentencing an article in paper stated that he had abused as child(juvenile), kept from public. If i had been married to him and not known i truly don’t know what i would have done knowing this had been kept from me.
 
The first funeral will begin soon, for 14 yo Alyssa Alhadeff. Her mother is the one who made the statement on CNN yesterday and was interviewed.

One of the parents interviewed on CNN about how Parkview is one of the top schools in the state, top baseball team, top in academics. Very well educated and involved student body. He's not surprised that the surviving kids are strongly motivated to use their experience to make change. This school is different from some of the others that have experienced mass shootings. It won't be forgotten, there will be change.
 
CNN reporting shooting began at 2:19 and ended at 2:27. 150 rounds shot, 17 people killed in just a few minutes.

Mass slaughter, IMO. It shouldn't be so easy to fire so many shots and kill so many people in such a short span of time.
 
I was listening to the Students yesterday and this a.m. I hope they were heard. Amazing kids.
 
One more thing I forgot to mention earlier.

Let's please keep religion out of this discussion OK?

You will not change anyone's mind about their religious belief or lack of religious belief.

Religion is not the answer when it comes to angry boys wanting to kill people for no reason.

It is some sort of mental health issue. What kind of issue I don't know.


Remember Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Goldman ?

From Wikipedia

That would explain a lot.

How could we get Cruz out of society and into a hospital? Maybe it could be said he was a danger to others and therefore could be involuntarily committed but that's only good for 72 hours.

Do you think parents, or the government should be able to assess an adult child's mental capacity and have them committed for a lengthy period of time?

Cruz was SCREAMING what he was going to do on social media. Why wasn't he stopped?

Tricia

I agree with this. I know gun debates are off limits, but are we allowed to discuss why he wasn’t red flagged on a background check and what kinds of things should be reportable? I feel this is one of many many things we should be looking at to begin trying to prevent these things.

I tried to alert on this post but Tapatalk isn’t cooperating. Can one of you do it for me? TIA
 
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/
Excerpt
"Fact: A disturbing number of perpetrators of school shootings and similar mass murders in our modern era were either on – or just recently coming off of – psychiatric medications. "
I really think that the reliance on pharmaceuticals has a massive role in these things obviously alongside the thing which shall not be named.

I'm not sure where you go from here.

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I wonder sometimes why Canada hasn’t had any massive school shootings. What are we doing different? I know guns are harder to get but people who shouldn’t have them, do. Are we doing anything different? I just don’t get it. We have mentally ill youth running rampant in our country as well. We just don’t see this here. (We do have some horrible crimes) is it because we have free health care-including mental health? Our wait times are horrible so it isn’t perfect. But is that one thing? Idk.


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We had kids with problems like KC 20, 30 and 40 years ago but we didn't have the mass shootings then even though guns were in many homes. What did these kids do back then when they had mental health issues, didn't fit in and/or were bullied? I know what they didn't do. They didn't find a place to fit in on social media. They didn't go to you tube and connect with others with violent tendencies where they could fit in. They weren't glued to their cell phones 24/7 where all it takes is a few taps to watch live violence. Our kids today have traded in their social skills for technology. Don't get me wrong, technology has done great things for our world but unfortunately, IMO it has in many cases, replaced our natural need for human relationships and interaction.

He was probably watching the news on his cell phone while sitting in McDonalds. Gloating over the horror and pain he created.
 
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