FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

[Hatfield]

I tried to find out where it would be documented and havent found it yet. I did find this interesting link with a lot of good boating information about capsizes and wrecks though.

"In 2009 40% of all recreational boating deaths in the U.S. were the result of boats flooding, swamping or capsizing – that represents 298 people out of a total of 736 boating fatalities -- according to USCG statistics. Most of those accidents occurred in open fishing boats under 26’ (7.9 m). Virtually all of these accidents were the result of operator error, generally attributable to lack of experience and boating education. If you are in a boat that swamps or capsizes, statistics say you have a 37% chance of ending up a fatality."

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_news.aspx?newsid=4532

 

[Hatfield]

I found this which implies the owner is responsible.

"What is the Coast Guard policy on towing?
In most situations the Coast Guard will ask the operator of a disabled vessel if there is towing company or friend they can call. The Coast Guard will only respond if there is imminent threat to life or property, or if there are no towing firms in the area."


https://www.lakeshoretowing.com/marine-towing/towing-salvage/

 

[tick_tock]

Ironically there's a scheduled boat parade tonight in Jupiter, FL, in support :facepalm:
Maybe someone has it and MSM doesn't know about it. I would have thought it would have been inspected already for clues, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. And with all the money and all the people helping out. Strange.

 

[Koa]

I would think there's some sort of floatation foam in at least parts of the hull but someone who knows these particular boats would need to comment.

I'm surprised the boat wasn't uprighted fairly quickly to see how much fuel was left to get an idea how long it ran. Maybe the CG felt that info wouldn't be useful by the time the boat was found, along with not knowing if the gas tank was topped off.
I would think if they were making a run for the Bahamas the tank would have been topped off. Did the boat have a built in tank? Any evidence/statements about auxiliary tanks.

I missed the reasoning why people think they were headed for the Bahamas. Texts to friends? Facebook? How were they navigating? I can't imagine making a run across 60+ miles of open ocean with the lack of safety gear on that boat. How many hours would it have taken for them to make it to the Bahamas and then to get back? No way they could go full throttle the whole way.

Those engine covers latch on pretty securely. I flipped my 17' Boston Whaler in high surf and the engine cover remained on. I also rescued a father and son whose Whaler flipped in high surf, uprighted it, the engine cover remained on. I know every situation is different but I suspect the boys had taken the cover off due to engine problems, without power the boat swamped and rolled over in rough seas.

The grandfather stated he bought the boat about 30 days ago so not much experience with that boat. Didn't see anything about it being new or used. I wonder how many hours were on the engine and service history if used. He also said his grandson might not have seen the next morning but they couldn't just give up searching and have a wake for him. He was pretty realistic early on.

The idea of buying a 14 year old a boat is okay with me. But buying a boat and not outfitting it with available safety gear especially if you're allowing him to take another family's kid with him regularly is a real shame. Considering how much money they have makes it that much worse.

Hopefully it will be a wake up call to others. At least for a little while.

 

[Elainera]

Ironically there's a scheduled boat parade tonight in Jupiter, FL, in support :facepalm:
Maybe someone has it and MSM doesn't know about it. I would have thought it would have been inspected already for clues, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. And with all the money and all the people helping out. Strange.

But if it wasn't uprighted and inspected how do they know what items are missing? They reported shoes, T Shirts, life vests, engine cover, fishing rods, fishing buckets, another small box with fishing gear ... How would they know all this w/o uprighting it and a family member who knows what's usually in the boat looking over it?

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

Doesn't surprise me at all. It was not the Coast Guard's responsibility to secure it. They searched it, found out what they needed to know, and marked it as a hazzard with the buoy. The family or their insurance company should have sent somebody right away. My guess is a salvage company towed it in or it is on its way to Ireland.

The FB page is going to go batshit crazy over this news.

I had been wondering about the boat.
Does anyone know the usual protocols for capsized boats or is it different depending on situation?

This boat was relatively inexpensive considering most ocean faring vessels are much larger and more expensive.

So I was wondering why there was not much discussion on trying to get it back to shore when it was first spotted and began to wonder if it was due to its smaller size and value to repair.

Does anybody know if it is fairly common to abandon a relatively inexpensive smaller type boat like that?

Maybe it is fairly common instead of spending resources to try to toe it back and then have to rightside it as well as drain it and dry it out and repair any water damage. It may have been very costly to even try to repair it to get it sea worthy again.

I have no idea what the protocols are for something like this and who is responsible for retrieving it?
There has to be protocols for this.

I tried to find out where it would be documented and havent found it yet. I did find this interesting link with a lot of good boating information about capsizes and wrecks though.

"In 2009 40% of all recreational boating deaths in the U.S. were the result of boats flooding, swamping or capsizing – that represents 298 people out of a total of 736 boating fatalities -- according to USCG statistics. Most of those accidents occurred in open fishing boats under 26’ (7.9 m). Virtually all of these accidents were the result of operator error, generally attributable to lack of experience and boating education. If you are in a boat that swamps or capsizes, statistics say you have a 37% chance of ending up a fatality."

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_news.aspx?newsid=4532

Is consensus/your opinion that the coast guard divers didn't inspect the glove compartments while still in the water and did not? Your opinion that the coast guard should have uprighted the boat and towed it? For what clues? Murder? Kidnapping? (don't know if you are thinking like those on fb saying "they didn't tow in and investigate as could have had bullet holes .. smh.... etc. )

We saw little footage of the coast guard diver, and I would expect that they did more investigation than the edited portions we saw.

Burial at sea :moo: of the boat is appropriate.

I'm wondering if the family didn't spend some of the $400,000 on having someone go to tow it in, but (perhaps knowing full well/should have known) the coast guard let it "go" when the search was up or before.

The original reporter of that story said they did have confirmation from the Coast Guard, and will update at 3&5 today this story fwiw.

I posted a reply to this earlier and it never showed up for some reason so I will try again. I did not mean to imply that the Coast Guard did anything wrong I was just wondering if they really did a thorough inspection of the vessel or just to determine the boys were not in it or around it and a quick assessment of the items. And no I do not subscribe to the crackpot conspiracy theory of being shot by pirates etc lol in fact I actually posted in one of those threads on FB , i was the one who said " I mustve accidentally ingested LSD..phones ringing and campsites in Africa you say?" Lol but anyhow I guess I was hoping that the phones might still be up under the boat and presumably waterproof type and might hold some clues such as photos, vidoes or text messages they tried to send out which might have geotagging/location encryption on them. Not that it would help find the boys alive at this point anyhow , but admittedly it does bother me so much not knowing what happened .

 

[Hiandmighty]

But if it wasn't uprighted and inspected how do they know what items are missing? They reported shoes, T Shirts, life vests, engine cover, fishing rods, fishing buckets, another small box with fishing gear ... How would they know all this w/o uprighting it and a family member who knows what's usually in the boat looking over it?

A diver went under

 

[lilpony]

Link to their facebook page please??

 

[wendybtn]

I agree, I read the peition. It is demanding. I feel for the families, I really do. But, from the start I have felt the parents contined to change their stories to look better. First, the boys were not allowed on the ocean, then they were, but not too far out. They absolutely were not going to the Bahamas, but all social media from the boys states they were. It has been stated time and time again how "seasoned" they were on the water, yet they were the only ones headed out to sea during the storm while all the other "adult" boat captains were high tailing it back to the shore.

A mature thought process, understanding of not being invincible, and reactions to emergencies are not developed in a 14 year old. It was also suggested by a few that it was common to tell their parents one destination, and then they would go where ever they wanted. But, don't most adolescents do that? Why is everyone shocked?

Take responsibility, admit that the boys did not have the proper development or equipment to deal with an emergency. Use this as an oppurtunity to prevent this in the future. They have the resources to make a really difference.

I completely agree. But when someone dies they often become a perfectly
developed demi-god. Before that they were your imperfect but very much loved ones.

 

[wendybtn]

Yes the FB pages are flipping out to a whole new level of crazy about this wow! I do hope we hear later on that maybe a salavage company was hired to bring it in and nobody from the families said anything about it yet. It's just so sad that not a trace of them has been found and most likely never will now .

Would insurance even be an issue on a non-navigable waterway? I know nothing about boats

 

[Sulamith]

Link to their facebook page please??

I can't remember TOS if FB links are allowed or not, but you can search "Find Austin and Perry - Discussions" and "Find Austin and Perry". Twilight Zone time. I think there are even more groups.

 

[wendybtn]

Ironically there's a scheduled boat parade tonight in Jupiter, FL, in support :facepalm:
Maybe someone has it and MSM doesn't know about it. I would have thought it would have been inspected already for clues, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. And with all the money and all the people helping out. Strange.

If that was my boat and I had it privately towed back, there is only one thing I would do with it. Put it in a closed shed or garage and beat it with a baseball bat when I needed to blame somebody or my anger at my loss was overwhelming me. God help these families.

 

[katydid23]

I would think there's some sort of floatation foam in at least parts of the hull but someone who knows these particular boats would need to comment.

I'm surprised the boat wasn't uprighted fairly quickly to see how much fuel was left to get an idea how long it ran. Maybe the CG felt that info wouldn't be useful by the time the boat was found, along with not knowing if the gas tank was topped off.
I would think if they were making a run for the Bahamas the tank would have been topped off. Did the boat have a built in tank? Any evidence/statements about auxiliary tanks.

I missed the reasoning why people think they were headed for the Bahamas. Texts to friends? Facebook? How were they navigating? I can't imagine making a run across 60+ miles of open ocean with the lack of safety gear on that boat. How many hours would it have taken for them to make it to the Bahamas and then to get back? No way they could go full throttle the whole way.

Those engine covers latch on pretty securely. I flipped my 17' Boston Whaler in high surf and the engine cover remained on. I also rescued a father and son whose Whaler flipped in high surf, uprighted it, the engine cover remained on. I know every situation is different but I suspect the boys had taken the cover off due to engine problems, without power the boat swamped and rolled over in rough seas.

The grandfather stated he bought the boat about 30 days ago so not much experience with that boat. Didn't see anything about it being new or used. I wonder how many hours were on the engine and service history if used. He also said his grandson might not have seen the next morning but they couldn't just give up searching and have a wake for him. He was pretty realistic early on.

The idea of buying a 14 year old a boat is okay with me. But buying a boat and not outfitting it with available safety gear especially if you're allowing him to take another family's kid with him regularly is a real shame. Considering how much money they have makes it that much worse.

Hopefully it will be a wake up call to others. At least for a little while.

GREAT first post. And I agree about the safety gear. There should have been tracking system with the boat, esp. if it is being used by young teens. But I am sure the family feels awful so I feel kind of bad pointing it out. I am sure they are beting themselves up for it and that is very sad. I wish they would make some regulations about what is required for ocean going boats. If we are going to spend millions looking for a missing craft, maybe we should require some kind of tracking system so we can find them quicker and easier. JMO

Oh, and :welcome: to WS!

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Would insurance even be an issue on a non-navigable waterway? I know nothing about boats

Ok, my brother operates a 70 ft Bertram in these areas...but he would never go into/out of the Jupiter Inlet with that boat due to insurance issues. He has decades of experience--including some catastrophic issues (ex. "Delam") due to no fault of his own. So he knows the scenarios all too well.

He told me that marine insurance won't cover the loss of the boat (which is different from life insurance policies) if the inlet is "unmarked" aka "unnavigable" which is what Jupiter Inlet is. The Inlet can't be improved due to environmental issues.

I don't know how life insurance policies are about such things. I know there are variances in marine policies but never a wise idea to go into/out of unnavigable waters due to insurance pay-out risk.

Young teens wouldn't know about this. To them, the Jupiter Inlet was home.

RIP boys.

 

[Eileen730]

GREAT first post. And I agree about the safety gear. There should have been tracking system with the boat, esp. if it is being used by young teens. But I am sure the family feels awful so I feel kind of bad pointing it out. I am sure they are beting themselves up for it and that is very sad. I wish they would make some regulations about what is required for ocean going boats. If we are going to spend millions looking for a missing craft, maybe we should require some kind of tracking system so we can find them quicker and easier. JMO

Oh, and :welcome: to WS!

I think this boat should have had a 2 way radio.

 

[Eileen730]

If that was my boat and I had it privately towed back, there is only one thing I would do with it. Put it in a closed shed or garage and beat it with a baseball bat when I needed to blame somebody or my anger at my loss was overwhelming me. God help these families.

I would think the families would want that boat back to inspect it themselves I know I would.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Coast Guard press conference:
One life jacket floating near boat,cover off of motor
[video=youtube;9QTVDLVZLOQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QTVDLVZLOQ[/video]

 

[Hatfield]

A diver went under

That was my understanding too that a diver went under the boat when they found it. I am sure they checked for the 2 boys underneath the boat and I suppose it would have been obvious that they were not under there.

Although if it was me in that situation (thankfully it isnt) then I would have arranged for an immediate tow ASAP the minute I heard about them finding the boat. Mainly to investigate as much as possible.

Then I would have had to sell it soon after because I would not want to keep it.

Maybe efforts were made to try to retrieve it and maybe we are just now hearing that they could not locate it.

 

[Portabella]

Just checking back to see if anything new, not sure I really expected anything to have changed. I cannot help but feel so bad for these families....So devastating. I really hope they have a great support system, have other children to keep them going and have enough love to keep together as a family unit, tragedy such as this can tear a family apart. I pray for them....and I pray the boys passed over quickly and did not suffer. IMHO

 

[IndianSummer]

Local sailors support search for missing teens with boat parade
9:42 p.m. Monday, Aug. 3, 2015
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...s-support-search-for-missing-teens-wit/nnCNp/
The boaters’ words reflected what Blu Stephanos, the father of Austin, wrote on the web page: “(My son Dakoda) didn’t sleep much and neither have I since this happened. After giving them all a kiss while they slept, I went to the beach to sit in front of the ocean to maybe find some peace and shed some tears. I thought I would hate the ocean, but it’s the exact opposite … it’s the only place I feel close to my son, ” he posted.