GUILTY FL - Cherish Perrywinkle, 8, Jacksonville, 21 June 2013 #3

[neenna66]

I doubt that. They are 3 and 5, iirc. I can't recall on the top of my head any criminal case that allowed the testimony of anyone so young.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dence-court-led-attacker-jailed-13-years.html

This child was four but in my research i have found typically seven is about the youngest.

 

[MadamReporter]

I wonder two things. First I think tis is quite probable what his actions were and now I wonder if LE actually got the stroller if they would announce that fact? Or just keep it silent because they have the evidence. Also dp is probably being sought for the additional reason that the murder took place at or close to the same time and in connection with another felony.

I think you have a point in that they wouldn't necessarily announce that they had it. On the very first morning of the investigation they had put out an announcement they were looking for that second car in the Walmart parking lot. There was rampant speculation online that that car was involved in her kidnapping and possibly some pedo ring, that Cherish was handed off by DS to whoever was driving that second car. Well, the driver of that second car was just another patron at Walmart and she called in and got her name and car cleared with PD, but they never updated the public about anything. Never said it was cleared, never said they found it and it's not involved. Just kinda left the public hangn'.

 

[Donjeta]

As of 7/02 they were still looking for the stroller.

We found out premeditation is applicable in Smith's case, but there's still one key piece of evidence investigators still haven't found. Cherish's mother Rayne says her stroller was in Smith's van while they were inside the Walmart, but not when he was arrested.

"It could lead us to add evidence that would be important in this case. There may be a secondary crime scene that we need to investigate," said Caliel.

The stroller is a blue, tandem, Graco model with plaid print. It can been seen being pushed by a woman in a grainy picture that police say is a still shot taken from surveillance video inside the Dollar General store where Cherish Perrywinkle's mother, Rayne, first met Smith Friday evening. A friend of the family confirms to Action News that it is in fact Rayne Perrywinkle in the picture.

If you see the stroller, police are asking that you not touch it or anything around it. Instead, call 911 to report it immediately.

 

[MadamReporter]

Neena, I am so, so sorry about the loss of your children. There is not enough sympathy in the world to express to a mother that's been through what you have.

A year and a half ago there was a woman named Madonna (not THAT Madonna) who lost all of her children in a house fire on Christmas Eve/Morning in NY. I didn't read one article about the condemnation of her, not one. Just because a mother is present at the time that her children pass, doesn't automatically make it her fault. There are some circumstances, however, that the mother shoulders most if not all of the blame, and in my opinion, Cherish's story is one of them.

 

[Donjeta]

This is something I can comment on from my own standpoint and life. I lost two children in a house fire. My oldest and i survived (barely - smoke inhalation/both of us and burns/me). Even my memories now do not jive with what others who came on the scene say. My memories now do not match what I said to people then. I was in shock. Shock over the loss of a child does strange things to people. I fought so hard with family afterwards that my own sister file a protection order against me and I against her. The death of a child does very weird things to people. Some become closer and others fight every step of the way. So in a defense of rayne she is more than likely going through a very severe type of shock and trauma. She might be doubting her own memories, she might be saying what she thinks people want to hear. If you can consider someone 'lucky' who has lost a child, I was lucky. I was very young so people were much more forgiving.

But I do know that given my history before this fire (which happened at 6-7am on a sunday) if the internet had been as prevelant as it is today, I would have been torn limb from limb. Even if she made a horrible judgment call it does not mean she is beyond redemption. I made some bad choices two years before the fire that took my children's lives and changed my life forever and the life of my oldest child as well, but I was on my way to straightening up my life. There are things she can do and places she can get help from if they determine she needs help. I understand that cherish lost her life and this might sound cruel to some, Rayne has two other babies at home, and i am sure they love their mommy. Shouldn't we as a compassionate society try to help rather than condemn?

I wish she would answer my email. I know of tons of places where she can get help, and having been in a similar position to her, I feel like I might be able to reach her. Or maybe not either way I use my life now for good and to try to help others so they can recover from bad choices or intentionak acts so they can move past it and become productive. Especially those with children.

I am sorry for your devastating loss and FWIW I absolutely agree with you that the whole family is going to need a lot of help in the future.

 

[sadnpod]

This is something I can comment on from my own standpoint and life. I lost two children in a house fire. My oldest and i survived (barely - smoke inhalation/both of us and burns/me). Even my memories now do not jive with what others who came on the scene say. My memories now do not match what I said to people then. I was in shock. Shock over the loss of a child does strange things to people. I fought so hard with family afterwards that my own sister file a protection order against me and I against her. The death of a child does very weird things to people. Some become closer and others fight every step of the way. So in a defense of rayne she is more than likely going through a very severe type of shock and trauma. She might be doubting her own memories, she might be saying what she thinks people want to hear. If you can consider someone 'lucky' who has lost a child, I was lucky. I was very young so people were much more forgiving.

But I do know that given my history before this fire (which happened at 6-7am on a sunday) if the internet had been as prevelant as it is today, I would have been torn limb from limb. Even if she made a horrible judgment call it does not mean she is beyond redemption. I made some bad choices two years before the fire that took my children's lives and changed my life forever and the life of my oldest child as well, but I was on my way to straightening up my life. There are things she can do and places she can get help from if they determine she needs help. I understand that cherish lost her life and this might sound cruel to some, Rayne has two other babies at home, and i am sure they love their mommy. Shouldn't we as a compassionate society try to help rather than condemn?

I wish she would answer my email. I know of tons of places where she can get help, and having been in a similar position to her, I feel like I might be able to reach her. Or maybe not either way I use my life now for good and to try to help others so they can recover from bad choices or intentionak acts so they can move past it and become productive. Especially those with children.

Oh Neenna.. Thank you for this beautiful and understanding post. My heart goes out to you.

 

[floridamomma]

neenna,
not personally knowing your situation, obviously, i just want to say that while you & RP have both lost children, but you didn't intentionally put your kids in harms way. i don't think RP had any idea just how horribly that night would end, but there's a big difference in making a mistake and ....and... what she did.

:hugs:

 

[vasportsmom]

I don't mind sharing. I was in my early 20's and very overwhelmed, had three childrencustody of my sister and my husband had just walked out. I chose to drink and not take care of my children due to being overwhelmed. Not an excuse, just what happened. CPS stepped in and took all four of them. Two years later after cps had murdered my youngest daughter the older two came home. I was sober and clean, had been for nearly two years and the fire happened. That's why I said observers would attack me like they are the mother because of the history. I have it now with my preteen child. People prejudge me due to the prior cps involvement, but that mom is nt me now. That's why I said there is hope for cherish's mom.

I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for what you have been through. I can not imagine losing a child, most less two. I'm so glad that you were able to come back from those tragedies and rebuild your life. I'm not sure that I would have been strong enough to do it.

 

[floridamomma]

My heart breaks for you. im not fond of cps, im so sorry they let your daughter die. and then a fire?

i am speechless.

eta, i hope you sued the pants off of that states cps. and yay on being sober!

 

[momrids6]

Definitions from Florida Statutes Chapter 39

(b) "Child abuse" means abandonment, abuse, harm, mental injury, neglect, physical injury, or
sexual abuse of a child as those terms are defined in s. 39.01, 827.04, and 984.03.

Leaving a child without adult supervision or arrangement appropriate for the child's age or
mental or physical condition, so that the child is unable to care for the child's own needs or
another's basic needs or is unable to exercise good judgment in responding to any kind of
physical or emotional crisis.


http://qol.nova.edu/pdf/Definitionsf...sChapter39.pdf

Florida defines inadequate supervision as leaving a child alone who is too young to take care of herself or is unprepared for emergencies. It may also entail leaving a child alone or unsupervised when a safety threat is present or leaving a child alone in an unsafe environment.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7811704_fl...#ixzz2X5NPR81u


ETA: Both the LE dispatch report and police report are available online

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree that RP needs help in a BIG way. But I think it would be better delivered in a structured facility, away from her young children and current environment .. she needs proper parenting classes, budgeting classes, mental health checks .. and a few ‘stranger danger’ classes wouldn’t go astray either.

She needs time away from everything to think about her foolish actions, and how easily she could have prevented this tragedy (I see no signs that she understands that, even now).

A previous poster mentioned that these things are accessible in a remand facility.

She is a ‘mature’ woman of 45 .. and she still has two young children in her risky care.

 

[floridamomma]

Oh and they did not let my DD die. They killed her. We had been back and forth in court every month with the foster mother saying I would be incapable of caring for her because I would lay her flat on her back for her bottles (she would have lost the bottles if she had come home, she was almost 3), and she had gastro reflux. After my daughter was hospitalized it was revealed that this same foster mother laid her flat on her back and gave her a bottle. I have more peace about the two that passed in the fire than I do her. It does come out from time to time and I apologize in advance for that. I had those records until the fire, but they all corroborated what I said. Well nuff of that I can rant for hours about how horrible cps is I appreciate everyone's thoughts and well wishes. Wish they were giving more tidbits. I want to know what is going on. I felt so drawn to cherish and rayne.

how did she die? sorry to be nosey, dont answer if you dont want to.

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. That is very sad. Was there a reason she had to lay down to eat (like unable to sit up?)? Or couldn't roll over/turn her head when she vomited? Just curious if there was an underlying medical issue that contributed.

I appreciate you sharing your story and despite such a tough still being able to offer others loving compassion. I admire that.

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm sorry.

 

[AngelWings444]

I have stayed off this thread for many reasons, but always reading along. Cherish is the victim here, not her mother. Moms do not put their children in dangerous situations, all while having that feeling that something is wrong. They do not get into a van with a stranger, allow that person to go into a dressing room with their young daughter. IMO - the mother's actions are neglectful and criminal. In her own words, she knew something was wrong and didn't protect her daughter. She needs to be held accountable. With her lack of judgement, she is a danger to the two remaining children in her custody. RP ever changing story is a clear sign she knew what she did was wrong and was hiding things, protecting herself! Too bad she never protected her daughter in the same way. Cherish suffered and is dead due to her mothers lack of care and concern. She put her daughter in harms way..there should be consequences.

I have children, know many people who have children, and CPS has never been involved in our lives. Most parents do not have CPS involved in their lives and when they do, there is something wrong. I don't care about the parents, only the CHILDREN! Most of these kids don't stand a chance. It all begins with parenting your children! Don't blame CPS or the courts, blame yourself for not caring for your children and having CPS involved in their lives in the first place. Take care of your kids! If you can't take care of your kids, give them to the other parent who can!!

We need an overhaul of our system for allowing RSO to walk our streets, but as a parent, you have to take care of your kids and not allow them to be prey to the sicko's of the world. That is your JOB! IMO - RP served her daughter up to a RSO. It was completely avoidable. I don't feel sorry for her mother. I feel sorry for Cherish and the pain she endured. Cherish is the victim. JMO

 

[Dawn316]

Angelwings444....Where did you read that he went into the dressing room with that child?

 

[BrownRice]

Angelwings444....Where did you read that he went into the dressing room with that child?

It's been all over the news. The mom reported that when she called 911. Said he went to (or "into" - depending on the reporting) the dressing room with Cherish two times.

 

[Donjeta]

RP says:

She said the man took Cherish to the dressing room at Walmart twice, as the JSO dispatch center report states, but she made sure Smith never entered the fitting room. Perrywinkle said Smith kept handing items to Cherish to try on and even wanted her to buy a pair of high heels. "Woman shoes," Perrywinkle said when she referred to the heels.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topst...s-mom-speaks-on-key-facts-in-daughters-murder

Either way it was a red flag that got ignored, imo, a stranger trying to get way too close to an eight-year-old in various stages of undress and it may have been possible for him to get eyefuls from the outside. If ever a strange creepy old man wants to go anywhere near while your eight-year-old is changing clothes, run, don't walk. And eww, "woman shoes"? For an eight-year-old? Was that RP's term or his?

 

[dillysmom11]

I have stayed off this thread for many reasons, but always reading along. Cherish is the victim here, not her mother. Moms do not put their children in dangerous situations, all while having that feeling that something is wrong. They do not get into a van with a stranger, allow that person to go into a dressing room with their young daughter. IMO - the mother's actions are neglectful and criminal. In her own words, she knew something was wrong and didn't protect her daughter. She needs to be held accountable. With her lack of judgement, she is a danger to the two remaining children in her custody. RP ever changing story is a clear sign she knew what she did was wrong and was hiding things, protecting herself! Too bad she never protected her daughter in the same way. Cherish suffered and is dead due to her mothers lack of care and concern. She put her daughter in harms way..there should be consequences.

I have children, know many people who have children, and CPS has never been involved in our lives. Most parents do not have CPS involved in their lives and when they do, there is something wrong. I don't care about the parents, only the CHILDREN! Most of these kids don't stand a chance. It all begins with parenting your children! Don't blame CPS or the courts, blame yourself for not caring for your children and having CPS involved in their lives in the first place. Take care of your kids! If you can't take care of your kids, give them to the other parent who can!!

We need an overhaul of our system for allowing RSO to walk our streets, but as a parent, you have to take care of your kids and not allow them to be prey to the sicko's of the world. That is your JOB! IMO - RP served her daughter up to a RSO. It was completely avoidable. I don't feel sorry for her mother. I feel sorry for Cherish and the pain she endured. Cherish is the victim. JMO

BBM. <Mod Snip> I've been a foster/adoptive mom for many years, and I've had children in my care that CPS had no business removing from their homes. CPS is often the cause of adults with mental health issues.<Mod Snip>RP made some incredibly foolish decisions, but she is not responsible for the death of her daughter. She will, however, have to live with those decisions the rest of her life... reliving the torture her daughter endured. MOO

 

[dillysmom11]

Has the 911 call been made public? I'm sorry, I've not been paying attention the last few days. Can someone post it for me, if so? TIA!