FL FL - Clifford & Christine Walker, both 23, & 2 kids, Osprey, 20 Dec 1959

[Laura_Bean]

2 scenarios

Christine has a male friend for company because she is lonely. Her husband gets into a fight with the guy after finding out, the story of her husband almost getting killed fighting with someone is about her lover. She has the guy come to the house because her husband and children will be out and he can't take the rejection.

Or same thing up until the guy comes over. He comes over she rejects him, her husband comes home as her lover is leaving, loses his mind, and rapes his own wife, shoots her, and than turns the gun on the children and than himself. Perhaps his friend took the gun out of his hand to cover up what his friend did. Perhaps he doesn't want anyone to believe his friend was capable of murdering his own family.

 

[Laura_Bean]

And respectfully here, what causes someone to kill an entire family? Sometimes panic but more often than that, PERSONAL. Think personal. He took the marriage certificate. That's personal. He killed the children. That's personal. If someone goes into a house that has two cats and an old woman, and the man kills the woman because she refuses to show him where she keeps her stash of cash, and than leaves without harming a flea on her cats, welp, it isn't personal. But if he goes into the house shoots her and the cats, we know it is personal. The small children probably would have been left alive had it been an impersonal act.

 

[Laura_Bean]

Oh and the outfit being taken. That was definitly personal. I have a really good idea though. Can we get a picture of that uniform? He took it for a reason. If we knew what it looked like, it could certainly help us.

 

[kline]

Perry Smith and Hickock almost got into fist fight at the Clutter House because Smith wouldnt allow Hickock to rape Nancy Clutter.
In Smith's warped way of looking at things though he was willing to fight to keep her from being assaulted however he had no problem shortly thereafter blowing a hole through the back of her head with a shotgun while she pleaded for her life.
Though certainly both of them were capable of killing anyone if that person had something they wanted I dont think it was anything more then an extrordinary coincidence that they were in the immediate vicinity.
I mean after all in the six weeks following the Clutter Murders they were kind of all over the place.
From Kansas to Mexico.California across Nevada and Wyoming to Nebraska and Iowa.Then Back to Kansas then the Southern States and Florida,then on to Texas...apparently if you waited long enough in 1959 'The Dick And Perry Tour' would be at a city near you eventually.
Mr.s Walker to me was clearly the primary target.
Someone mentioned how social mores were different then.
I cant help but think of a couple of incidents when I was very young in the mid 60's and the small town we lived in.
My mother was in her mid 20's at the time and attractive.
I remember one local citizen in good standing who gave us a ride from the post office while my father was at work and another who stopped by our house on some pretext who both made physical advances and I remember my mother sending them packing with threats to tell my father.
That kind of'wolf' like agressiveness was more common in those days.
And a young woman in a small community could be the target of all kinds of unwanted attention that a woman of today wouldnt begin to put up with and morons who indulged in such behavior would be looking at prosecution.
The few pictures of Mr.s Walker ive seen show she was an uncommonly attractive lady even by todays standards and I dont doubt was the focus of more then one local horndog.
However how many of them could there have been?
Surely someone spun enough over her to rape her and take trophies of such a personal nature like that must have been obsessive enough that others must have known about the fixation?
And I would be willing to bet whoever it was saw her in that Majorette Uniform in school.
Im sure there was a list of candidates but it must have been relatively short...

 

[Sporky]

I have never heard of this until I read this thread. This is crazy and so very sad. I really hope that the new advances with DNA will nab the person who did this.

 

[Richard]

This December will mark the 50th anniversary of this case. Has anyone seen any recent articles or information on it?

 

[MaryLiz]

This December will mark the 50th anniversary of this case. Has anyone seen any recent articles or information on it?

Richard, I e-mailed the reporter who wrote the story that appeared in the Herald-Tribune in 2005 to see if he was going to write an anniversary article. I haven't heard back from him yet. But the last time I e-mailed him to find out if any of the DNA they tested matched anyone, it took him quite a while to respond. He said last year in August 2008 when he responded to the DNA question that he would probably write an anniversary article unless something happened before that. (See post #30 on this page). I'll be sure to post on here if and when I hear back from him.

 

[gaia227]

I did a search and it appears that there has been no recent press about this case. We still have about a month and a half to go until the 50 year mark.

 

[wfgodot]

50th anniversary of the similar Clutter case next week, 15 November 2009; AP article:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1558129.html

 

[MaryLiz]

50th anniversary of the similar Clutter case next week, 15 November 2009; AP article:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1558129.html

Thanks for linking that article.

I was actually thinking of this last week, about the 50th anniversary. I was going to post something about it on their thread but they don't seem to have one on here. There's just a thread about the Clutter house being for sale last year.

 

[Richard]

50th anniversary of the similar Clutter case next week, 15 November 2009; AP article:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1558129.html

Good article. Thanks for the link.

 

[gaia227]

Here is another article in the AZ Daily Sun published today. It mentions both the Walker and Clutter murders.

http://azdailysun.com/articles/2009/11/10/news/20091110_front_207176.txt

 

[MaryLiz]

Here is another article in the AZ Daily Sun published today. It mentions both the Walker and Clutter murders.

http://azdailysun.com/articles/2009/11/10/news/20091110_front_207176.txt

Thankg gaia, this is a good article too. I still disagree about Smith and Hickock killing the Walker family. Normally, I would be the first to jump on the fact that "since they were seen around town, they must have done it." But to me, the only way they committed the murders is if they just happened on the Walker home and did it for a thrill kill if they were drunk or high. It just doesn't add up to me.

They killed the Clutter family because they thought there was a safe there. They were clearly after money. The Walker family was dirt poor and had virtually nothing and even lived in somewhat of a shack. To me, the Walker murder was personal. There was no shortage of suspects who had the hots for Christine Walker - Elbert Walker (who was ruled out by DNA), Wilbur Tooker, Curtis McCall, to name a few, and when you look at the only items taken from the home - her majorette uniform and Cliff and Christine's framed marriage license - that just sounds too personal to me. I admit, it's quite a coincidence that Smith and Hickock were in Florida at that time, but I just see the perp in the Walker murders as someone who knew the family, and went there with the intention of raping Christine.

 

[scriptgirl]

Where are you guys finding out that Christine's majorette uniform was taken? Did she grow up and go to high school in the area?

 

[MaryLiz]

Where are you guys finding out that Christine's majorette uniform was taken? Did she grow up and go to high school in the area?

It was somewhere in that extensive article written for the Herald-Tribune in 2005. I'll look through it tonight and see if I can find where it says that and post the link.

 

[wfgodot]

Where are you guys finding out that Christine's majorette uniform was taken? Did she grow up and go to high school in the area?

Here's the Sarasota Herald Tribune case file link; it has the three articles: http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?CATEGORY=SPECIAL12

It also has pictures, audio, video, links to original 1959 articles, etc. Highly interesting.

The majorette uniform detail is from the second story in the series, "The suspects: a litany of names and clues," the section entitled 'The Theory,' fourth and fifth paragraphs:

"Collins remembered how her daughter proudly pulled her high school majorette uniform out of the chest to show it off to friends and family. Christine always said she was saving it for her daughter, Debbie.

"But when Collins opened the chest, the only thing inside was an empty plastic bag."

 

[scriptgirl]

Thanks!

 

[MaryLiz]

Here's the Sarasota Herald Tribune case file link; it has the three articles: http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?CATEGORY=SPECIAL12

It also has pictures, audio, video, links to original 1959 articles, etc. Highly interesting.

The majorette uniform detail is from the second story in the series, "The suspects: a litany of names and clues," the section entitled 'The Theory,' fourth and fifth paragraphs:

"Collins remembered how her daughter proudly pulled her high school majorette uniform out of the chest to show it off to friends and family. Christine always said she was saving it for her daughter, Debbie.

"But when Collins opened the chest, the only thing inside was an empty plastic bag."

Thank you, wfgodot...I didn't have time to look for it until later tonight. I knew I saw it somewhere in there!

 

[wfgodot]

Thank you, wfgodot...I didn't have time to look for it until later tonight. I knew I saw it somewhere in there!

No problem, Cambria and scriptgirl, I happened to be reading the articles on that link and checked over here and found the question. Good timing on everyone's part! Happy to do it. Fascinating case.

 

[Richard]

Perry and Dick certainly were capable of murdering a whole family in cold blood. And they were in the very close vicinity to the Walker home. Hopefully DNA testing can be done which will help to determine if they were involved.

The problem with trying to use logic to connect them or rule them out is that their logic system was something out of the Bizarro World. What is known for certain is that they were a matched pair of dirtbags who would kill for the slightest "reason".