GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #8 *arrests*

[justice1960]

What about the “innocent until proven guilty” assumption? Most comments seem to assume that Katherine Magbanua were already convicted!

I am sorry for the victim and the Markel family and friends but Katherine Magbanua is a courageous woman. She makes mistake asking GC questions. However, her being in the witness stand draws a totally different picture! She has some “acknowledgement” of her lack of education; and, combined with her gentle attitude, it may spruce up her stake with the Tallahassee people.

Albeit remote, there is a possibility for Katherine Magbanua walking free because she is “innocent until proven guilty”! If the assumed conduit between the commanditaires and the executors walks free, the entire case might fall apart. As bad as it may seem, armchair lawyers and prosecutor wannabes, be thou ware that Katherine Magbanua may come free. That is my take thus far into her testimony.

I would agree with you if one of the jurors is illiterate and can't read like LR and also deaf. And that will only amount to a mistrial. Either way She has done 3 years behind bars...so much for being innocent until proven guilty.

 

[justice1960]

If what you stated is true...She will have one more card...Remove the death penalty from SG if he is sentenced to death.

 

[jbc]

Absurdly tight clothes for the women defense attorneys (Kawass), insanely loud clothes for the men (Zageneh)--this is what professional attire means in Florida, at least for the defense.

I'm not sure why that would be.
They clearly don't realize how unflattering their dress choices are.
Didn't Kawass apologize before showing the "uniform" of Katie at the bottle club (post boob job)?
I was expecting something closer to Playboy, but Kawass' dress is tighter and more revealing! ha.

 

[FreddyG]

I'm not really sure why folks persist in this notion that KM's Plan B is to flip if convicted. That is not a plan. She would have zero leverage at that point and once convicted she would face the mandatory sentence. There is nothing the state can do at that point. It's up to the legislature and the courts to seal her fate. And her sentence is already a done deal if convicted. I'm sure her lawyers have already explained this to her.

Interesting, I did not know that FL has mandatory sentences for certain charges. I'd always bought the theory that KM felt she could roll the dice on acquittal, and then if convicted instantly offer to flip in exchange for sentence reduction. Bc if there is sentencing discretion, she still has leverage to get it--namely the goods on CA and possibly DA, which the state (and most observers) value more than just about anything else.

So based on a quick and dirty Wikipedia search, it appears that the only mandatory sentence would be for first degree murder, which requires life w/o parole or death. Second degree murder comes with a 10 year mandatory minimum w max of life, so that is a lot of discretion. Manslaughter has only 15 year max, 30 if a firearm is used, so wide discretion there as well.

In light of this, there seems to be discretion to some extent with all of these. If she gets first degree murder, she could flip and ask for life without parole to avoid risking the death penalty for example. Also I wonder if the judge has discretion to issue a judgment that deviates from the jury verdict to accommodate a deal.

Source: List of punishments for murder in the United States - Wikipedia. Yes I am aware that Wikipedia is not controlling law; if FL statute has changed pls let me know.

 

[clearskies1]

Interesting, I did not know that FL has mandatory sentences for certain charges. I'd always bought the theory that KM felt she could roll the dice on acquittal, and then if convicted instantly offer to flip in exchange for sentence reduction. Bc if there is sentencing discretion, she still has leverage to get it--namely the goods on CA and possibly DA, which the state (and most observers) value more than just about anything else.

So based on a quick and dirty Wikipedia search, it appears that the only mandatory sentence would be for first degree murder, which requires life w/o parole or death. Second degree murder comes with a 10 year mandatory minimum w max of life, so that is a lot of discretion. Manslaughter has only 15 year max, 30 if a firearm is used, so wide discretion there as well.

In light of this, there seems to be discretion to some extent with all of these. If she gets first degree murder, she could flip and ask for life without parole to avoid risking the death penalty for example. Also I wonder if the judge has discretion to issue a judgment that deviates from the jury verdict to accommodate a deal.

Source: List of punishments for murder in the United States - Wikipedia. Yes I am aware that Wikipedia is not controlling law; if FL statute has changed pls let me know.

State is not seeking DP against KM. If convicted of 1st degree she will get life.

 

[jennyjenny]

Yes, we watch the same testimony. No, we do not have the same perception.

And, courageous or foolish or desperate or whatever adjective fits, Katherine Magbanua projects a convincing eagerness in declaring her innocence. My 2 cents.

Some of you have her guilty as charged since day one. Others wait for the useful American adage “innocent until proven guilty”. Yet others experienced and remember the high expectations building up towards the verdicts of O.J Simpson and Casey Anthony.

How would the jury from West Palm Beach, FL, differ as compared to the jury from Tallahassee, FL?

The city is a college town home to Florida State University, Florida A&M University, and Tallahassee Community College. This court is in Leon County. Tallahassee has the most educated people in Florida with 49.9% of residents holding higher education degrees. USA average is 24% and Florida average is 22%. If you remove the college students, university faculty and staff, and their relatives because they may be registered to vote from somewhere else, they are not in the jury pool.

What type of jury does this Tallahassee trial have? How many intelligent questions have these Tallahassee jury asked? Are we going toward Casey Anthony situation, … in Florida?

BBM -

Totally respect "your 2 cents" and agree with ref. to OJ & CA verdicts ... never try to guess what a jury will do ... YIKES!! I've not a clue what this jury will decide ... just my opinion that KM is the common denominator.

 

[Gypsy Road]

The code talk. How do you explain that? Especially the undercover phone number! I mean ...my gosh ...it points to guilt - another small but important part of the puzzle! How many of you talk code about a phone number!!!

 

[wildebeest]

Absurdly tight clothes for the women defense attorneys (Kawass), insanely loud clothes for the men (Zageneh)--this is what professional attire means in Florida, at least for the defense.

Good observation! The differences between Dade County and Leon County are huge. Notice the accents and demeanors of GC and Judge H. They represent the sleepy, southern, county of Leon, while the other aforementioned players are from Dade, a multicultural, fast-paced, urban area.

IMHO

 

[Weki]

Yeah I'm not claiming to be an authority but first degree murder is usually mandatory 25 to life in most states. So if she's convicted of the main charge, then turns around and tries to deal with the state, she's basically giving up all her appeal rights. I highly doubt that's the plan. I mean, if she's not willing to cooperate when a clear path to total freedom is on offer, why would she cooperate when she's facing substantial time even if, say for argument's sake, the state can reduce her sentence? It doesn't make sense.

She's a narc and we know how they are. They always sink themselves in the end. We've seen it with tons of other cases. Thinking they're smarter than everyone, thinking they can game the system and manipulate everyone etc. That's what she's doing. From what I saw on the stand, this woman is not a reasonable person.

 

[justice1960]

Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think zero evidence was presented that there was any kind of direction connection between Garcia and an Adelson. In fact it was made clear that Charlie Adelson would be the last person Garcia would want to be conversing with (but he'll gladly take his money).

You really have to wonder just what other crimes all of these players have done.

This is what they do for a living. No conscience and murdering people is no problem to them.

 

[justice1960]

Good observation! The differences between Dade County and Leon County are huge. Notice the accents and demeanors of GC and Judge H. They represent the sleepy, southern, county of Leon, while the other aforementioned players are from Dade, a multicultural, fast-paced, urban area.

IMHO

well said.

 

[Gypsy Road]

So, she says she paid with her own cash for the breast augmentation, teeth whitening, and limo etc. Money SHE saved up. That money was never put in the bank —- so you can add that to all the money she had that wasn’t reported. I doubt you make that kind of money being a bottle girl. I’ve never been a bottle girl, but have friends who have worked in the VIP Foundation Room at The House of Blues. They made good money, but not THAT kind of money. I don’t understand why none of the club owners were called to testify about her employment. And I know she’d lie, but shouldn’t Donna Adelson have been called since she signed the checks to cover for KM’s fake job to get insurance for her kids?

ETA - and why would DA be on board to sign checks for a fake job for insurance fraud to some chick CA was casually dating? Doesn’t make sense. Da was on board to pay for a job -- the job of having Dan murdered.

 

[FreddyG]

State is not seeking DP against KM. If convicted of 1st degree she will get life.

OK yeah then the gamble has much higher stakes: If she gets first degree, she's done--there's no bargaining position, unless it's on the table for the judge to enter a judgment that differs from the jury verdict (which judges can do in civil cases, not sure about crim in FL). Also possible that she might ask for lighter sentence for SG, not sure if that's permitted since I know little about the mechanics/legality of plea bargaining.

 

[Mariposa]

Today I saw a guy wearing a Bulleit whiskey shirt— omen?

 

[jennyjenny]

So, she says she paid with her own cash for the breast augmentation, teeth whitening, and limo etc. Money SHE saved up. That money was never put in the bank —- so you can add that to all the money she had that wasn’t reported. I doubt you make that kind of money being a bottle girl. I’ve never been a bottle girl, but have friends who have worked in the VIP Foundation Room at The House of Blues. They made good money, but not THAT kind of money. I don’t understand why none of the club owners were called to testify about her employment. And I know she’d lie, but shouldn’t Donna Adelson have been called since she signed the checks to cover for KM’s fake job to get insurance for her kids?

Wondering the same thing ... and why not call Charlie Adelson to testify?? Unless it's that they would have taken the 5th???

 

[Weki]

Good observation! The differences between Dade County and Leon County are huge. Notice the accents and demeanors of GC and Judge H. They represent the sleepy, southern, county of Leon, while the other aforementioned players are from Dade, a multicultural, fast-paced, urban area.

IMHO

Very astute. It didn't even occur to me. But this explains perfectly the body language between the parties in this case. Cappelman is not impressed with the Miami style. lol And I have to think jury will be on Cappelman's speed.

 

[computantis]

From Karl Etters Verified Account, Katherine Magbanua appeared to have said -- Kawass: "Do you think Charlie Adelson was involved in this?" Magbanua: "Yes".


Katherine is UCF educated but she appears foolish. It seems that her “[…] head has been twisted and fed with worthless foam from the mouth.” She knows what happened. If she flips, she is done with her “innocent saint attitude.” If she does not flip, her alleged bosses (the financiers) are free because the state has said “they are untouchable”, as of now. Hence, if the financiers convince her to stay quiet, … good for the financiers. It is my belief that Katherine Magbanua has not flip, if applicable, because of that simple, albeit risky reason.


Saying that Katherine Magbanua might walk free does not mean I have been convinced of her innocence. “She is innocent until proven guilty”, as in any USA court system, isn’t it? All I am saying is that these Tallahassee jurors have NOT asked too many intelligent questions. They remind me of the Casey Anthony jurors, in sad Florida!


I do not mind the accoutrements of the Kawass sisters and DeCoste. I resent their spoken usages. Especially when DeCoste succeeded to make the state witnesses such as the FBI agent acquiesce with platitudes: “You would agree that … the sky was blue?”, “Yes”, again and again.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Very astute. It didn't even occur to me. But this explains perfectly the body language between the parties in this case. Cappelman is not impressed with the Miami style. lol And I have to think jury will be on Cappelman's speed.

Agree. I lived and was schooled in Tally (FSU graduate here) and I can tell you - it’s a very conservative city.

 

[TTF14]

I'm not really sure why folks persist in this notion that KM's Plan B is to flip if convicted. That is not a plan. She would have zero leverage at that point and once convicted she would face the mandatory sentence. There is nothing the state can do at that point. It's up to the legislature and the courts to seal her fate. And her sentence is already a done deal if convicted. I'm sure her lawyers have already explained this to her.

I think she's narcissistic and thinks she'll walk. I think it is probably as simple as that. She's mad at LE and the prosecutors - you can tell by her attitude on the stand. She's PO'd at them. She thinks she's the victim of the state in all of this. And she's wants an acquittal.

I don't know how state is going to take CA to trial with what they have now. They need KM. If she's convicted or acquitted, she's not going to testify against CA. There's no incentive to her. I mean, maaaaaybe a sentence reduction but that is very unlikely once convicted and sentenced by the judge. Unless she works out a deal before sentencing, which again is highly unlikely. The sentence is largely a forgone conclusion in murder convictions.

eta: honestly, in her mind, she probably sees it as 'what's the big deal?' she didn't do the actual murder, all she did was facilitate and they should go after Charlie. She was just doing Charlie's bidding. And for that she probably feels like the state is just charging her to put pressure on her to flip and she's stubbornly not going to give them what they want. I've known plenty of narcissists and let me tell you....this is not far-fetched. She probably also thinks that since the state was willing to give her immunity to flip on Charlie, that they must not think they have a winnable case against her.

I'm not sure if this applies to convictions in Florida, but in a recent case in South Carolina (the Heather Elvis kidnapping trial), both of the convicted defendants (husband/wife) were given one year from conviction to give up information that would lead to the whereabouts of presumed-dead Heather Elvis.....in exchange for some leniency. I believe Tammy's year has now expired, but Sidney has nearly a year left.

If anyone watched that trial and researched this fairly new law, please chime in!

 

[justice1960]

I think they will both be convicted. KM is now basically useless to the State because of her testimony under oath that she has no actual knowledge if CA was involved. So if she's convicted I don't see the State ever doing a deal with her. JMO.

Then it is on to CA.