Identified! FL - Davie, WhtFem15-30, 295UFFL, blue platforms/puka shell necklace, Dec'75 - Carolyn Dunn Moudy

[CarlK90245]

(Copying this post from Phyllis Berry's MP Thread)


I called Phyllis Eleanor Berry as a possible in to TX DPS a couple of years ago. They contacted Broward County and were told that it was a CODIS rule-out by default.

I have a feeling though that they were just blowing it off. Florida has a reputation for botched rule-outs (e.g., Colleen Orsborn and Peggy Sue Houser)

Looking at the NamUs MP and UP casefiles for PEB and the Jane Doe, it is not clear whether both cases are in CODIS. There is a mtDNA profile for the Jane Doe at the Univ. of North Texas, but they were unable to develop a nucDNA profile for her. For Phyllis, it says "Sample available - Not yet submitted." However, it is unclear whether "Not yet submitted" applies to NamUs, or CODIS (or both).

But I noticed that they finally entered the dentals into the Jane Doe's NamUs UP casefile. So we can compare the description of the Jane Doe's dentals to the visual of PEB's teeth.

Here's a close-up of Phyllis' teeth (with the #8 and #9 teeth labled for reference).

Regarding the 295UFFL Jane Doe's teeth the NamUs casefile indicates the following:

Decedent has teeth #6 and 7 congenitally missing with primary teeth C and D retained.

In the photo of PEB's teeth, note the large gap next to (i.e., on her right of) her #8 tooth where her #7 tooth would normally be. I don't think that's her #7 on the other side of the gap. The #7 appears to be missing, I can't tell if that tooth is her #6, or if it is a primary tooth as is described of the UID.

But nevertheless, it could be consistent to the description of the Jane Doe's teeth.

Tooth #10 is also congenitally missing and tooth # 11 has erupted in #10 position.

Again, not conclusive, but the tooth next to (i.e., on her left of) her #9 tooth appears to have come in crooked, as if it is the #11 filling the gap left by a missing #10.

primary tooth H is retained in positon of tooth #11.

No way to judge that one way or the other from this photo.

Large diastema (space) between teeth #8 and #9

The photo is a little too blurred to be sure, but there appears to be a significant gap between #8 and #9.

 

[CarlK90245]

I got ahold of a photo of this jane Doe's maxilla and mandible. I put together this portrayal of how her smile might have looked.

It is very clear that the gap between this woman's two front teeth is much more severe that the gap between Phyllis Berry's teeth. This is definitely not Phyllis Berry.

 

[CarlK90245]

I'm looking at a girl (initials MG) among the 11th grade (Junior) portraits in the 1974 Fort Lauderdale HS yearbook. She does not appear in the 75 book among the seniors. The gap between her 8 & 9 is just as wide as the 75 Davie Jane Doe's is. And her #9 appears to slant outward the same way too. The photo is not focused well enough to see her other teeth, but I was able to overlay one of the images, and it looks pretty good

If any of you want to see if you can find evidence of her post-1975 existence, check it out (if you have yearbook access in classmates). If you don't have yearbook access, drop me a PM and I will give you her name.

She has a very uncommon surname. A search of that surname returns only a couple of people nationwide, but none with DOB's in the late 1950's

 

[4gwen]

This link is to the Broward County Sheriff Found and Forgotten page - where they list cases. This Jane Doe does not appear to be listed, though there are other cases from the same era.
I wonder if this case has been solved?
http://sheriff.org/apps/unidentified_victims/

 

[CarlK90245]

The Jane Doe's NamUs UP casefile was created in September 2011, and was modified by the NamUs staff a month ago, probably to add rule-outs. So I would guess that she is still UID.

 

[4gwen]

--maybe because this case is being handled by The Davie PD v. the BCSO?

December 23, 1975. Davie, FL.
...... body of a young girl floating in a canal north of Southwest 28th Street and 154th Avenue, in Davie. Investigators found no signs of trauma to the body but said it's possible the case was a homicide. The girl was likely in her teens. She was white about 5'5,'' 125 pounds and had brown hair. She had a gap in her two front teeth and wore a green flower-printed blouse, blue flared pants and blue platform shoes. She also had on a white puka necklace, made from bits of shells, and a silver ring with a blue stone in the center surrounded by three white gems. Agency: Davie police

 

[4gwen]

The Jane Doe's NamUs UP casefile was created in September 2011, and was modified by the NamUs staff a month ago, probably to add rule-outs. So I would guess that she is still UID.

ooops, I'm embarrassed now . :blushing: as in really embarrassed. yes sir, you are so correct!

 

[joeytes]

None except for Phyllis Eleanor Berry, who they say is a CODIS rule-out by default.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/berry_phyllis.html

This post is 2 years old, I am just reading it for the first time.

When you say rule out by default—

Do you mean that since Evelyn Berry's DNA is in CODIS,

and the Unidentified Victims UID (DNA) is in CODIS,

and there was no match (cold hit) between Ms Berry and the UID,

therfore

this is not match

?

In the database world this does not work.

In the case of this UID only mtDNA was collected. No nucDNA was collected. Is the DNA information accurate?

What type of DNA was collected from Phyllis Berry? Was it mtDNA, nucDNA, or both? Did BOTH her parents submit their DNA? Did just her mother and siblings submit DNA? Or did just her siblings submit DNA. Is the DNA information accurate. There is no real way of knowing.

In this case, if NAMUS compares nucDNA of this UID with nuc DNA of Phyllis Berry there will be no hit because there is no nucDNA for this UID. It is incomplete.

If no mtDNA was collected from Phyllis Berry then there would also be no hit because CODIS is comparing a complete mtDNA profile from the UID with an incomplete profile from Phyllis Berry.

In the database world, comparing complete data with incomplete data will not result in a match.

Also if just one character is misspelled; if a 0 is where an uppercase o (O) should be, or an extra space is at the end of a string it will not results in a hit. Mistakes happen, and that is the norm in databases.

So relying on ‘rule out by default’ will keep this UID on NAMUS for a long time.

Database are tools, but they are not perfect tools. Someone in authority should take a closer look at Phyllis Berry and this UID even if the DNA has to be eyeballed for a possible match.

 

[CarlK90245]

This post is 2 years old, I am just reading it for the first time.

When you say rule out by default—

Do you mean that since Evelyn Berry's DNA is in CODIS,

and the Unidentified Victims UID (DNA) is in CODIS,

and there was no match (cold hit) between Ms Berry and the UID,

therfore

this is not match

?

In the database world this does not work.

In the case of this UID only mtDNA was collected. No nucDNA was collected. Is the DNA information accurate?

What type of DNA was collected from Phyllis Berry? Was it mtDNA, nucDNA, or both? Did BOTH her parents submit their DNA? Did just her mother and siblings submit DNA? Or did just her siblings submit DNA. Is the DNA information accurate. There is no real way of knowing.

In this case, if NAMUS compares nucDNA of this UID with nuc DNA of Phyllis Berry there will be no hit because there is no nucDNA for this UID. It is incomplete.

If no mtDNA was collected from Phyllis Berry then there would also be no hit because CODIS is comparing a complete mtDNA profile from the UID with an incomplete profile from Phyllis Berry.

In the database world, comparing complete data with incomplete data will not result in a match.

Also if just one character is misspelled; if a 0 is where an uppercase o (O) should be, or an extra space is at the end of a string it will not results in a hit. Mistakes happen, and that is the norm in databases.

So relying on ‘rule out by default’ will keep this UID on NAMUS for a long time.

Database are tools, but they are not perfect tools. Someone in authority should take a closer look at Phyllis Berry and this UID even if the DNA has to be eyeballed for a possible match.

I have seen the photos of the Jane Doe's mandible and maxilla. The gap between her teeth is very severe (at least 1/4 inch wide), and her upper-left-front incisor (#9) skews slightly outward and to her left, and is slightly longer than her #8. Also, her teeth on the right side of her incisors are smaller than normal. It's hard to see exactly how wide Phyllis Berry's 8-9 gap is, but it doesn't appear to be as wide as the gap between this Jane Doe's 8 & 9.

Using the photos of Jane Doe's mandible & maxilla I did this representation of what her smile would have looked like.

Regarding DNA testing, when they told me back in January 2010 that this was a CODIS rule-out by default, they lied. This Jane Doe was not in CODIS at the time because they had not done a DNA profile on her at that time. However, as indicated in NamUs, they do now have a mtDNA profile.

Usually when a mtDNA compatible family member (e.g., a mother, maternal grandmother, M or F sibling, or child (if the MP is female)), submits a FRS, both mtDNA and nucDNA profiles are entered into CODIS. And only one FRS is required for a mtDNA comparison in CODIS. So if mtDNA is available on the UID, in all likelihood there should have been a mtDNA comparison.

 

[CarlK90245]

BTW, I've been trying for several months to trace down current info on a girl whose initials are MG who was in 11th grade at Fort Lauderdale High School in 1974. She is smiling in her Junior year portrait, and although the photo is not very clear, I could see that had very similarly gapped teeth.

She had a very unusual surname, but I have not been able to find anything on her other than her high school portrait in the 1974 yearbook.

 

[sam spade]

Teeth are off because of CarlK's post...however, she disappeared from Pompano Beach in BROWARD county; same height, age, hair color and the flower ring.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/l/lowe_debora.html

 

[CarlK90245]

Teeth are off because of CarlK's post...however, she disappeared from Pompano Beach in BROWARD county; same height, age, hair color and the flower ring.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/l/lowe_debora.html

Debora's sister is a frequent contributor to this forum. If there was any reasonable chance that this Jane Doe was Debora, it wouldn't escape her notice.

 

[Cherry]

And why not haliegh, did thy rule this as an adult or child.

 

[carbuff]

Ruleouts as of December 9 2013:

Amy Billig 1957 Florida
Judith Bleiler Unknown Washington
Peggy Byars-Baisden 1941 Florida
Kelsey Collins 1991 Florida
Cynthia Gooding 1958 Florida
Angela Hartman Unknown Washington
Pamela Nater 1946 Florida
Linda Pagano Unknown Idaho
Janel Peters 1960 California
Deanie Pyle Peters 1966 Michigan
Janis Sanders 1950 Michigan
Doris Wurst (NIC M149747273) Unknown Pennsylvania

https://identifyus.org/cases/9302

 

[JayFletcher6493]

Not sure if she has been suggested yet but Teresa Armanda Alfonso went missing in 1974 and has similar teeth. The age and height is off but i thought I'd post her anyway.

Here is a side by side of her and Jane Doe's teeth.

 

[sistershane]

Hi! Since i put up a Facebook page on who is suspected on being a Christopher Wilder victim-Shari Lynne Ball(FB page: Who killed shari lynne ball?). i've found out Wilder had a thing for canals-he lived right next to one in Boynton Beach. I've had girls(now women) who have posted on my FB page on meeting/encountering Wilder-and narrowly becoming victims. Wilder's most famous victim-former Beauty Queen contestant/teacher Elizabeth kenyon-was from Lockport, NY(where i had an encounter with Wilder in 1983),and it sits right on the Erie Canal there. Shari Lynne Ball's body was found in wny in a wildlife preserve field. Wilder had this thing for dumping his victims in canals or watery areas. Probably becasue decomposition set in far faster. Shari was found nude with no id of any sort on her-as were other known victims later id'd of Wilder's.!
I'm convinced Wilder was as prolific serial killer as Green River killer and Ted Bundy.
Sadly, the State Plice cold case detectives on Shari Lynne Ball's case-don't respond to my calls for any updates on the case. They interviewed me 4 months ago about my encounter with Wilder.
I'm trying hard to prove i met Wilder right around the time Shari's body was placed in the swamp field 1/2 hr. away from me. It's hard though-as anyone else who may have also seen Wilder around that time(with or without Shari) have forgotten it or likely not even around anymore!

 

[carbuff]

I don't see Alfonso on the ruleouts list as of 23 November 2014. Names in bold have been added since last year:

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Amy Billig 1957 Florida
Judith Bleiler Unknown Washington
Peggy Byars-Baisden 1941 Florida
Kelsey Collins 1991 Florida
Cynthia Gooding 1958 Florida
Angela Hartman Unknown Washington
Marilyn Karpen 1952 California
Pamela Nater 1946 Florida
Linda Pagano Unknown Idaho
Janel Peters 1960 California
Deanie Pyle Peters 1966 Michigan
Tanya Ruiz 1955 California
Janis Sanders 1950 Michigan
Jane Winnifred Smith 1955 Florida
Doris Wurst (NIC M149747273) Unknown Pennsylvania

 

[elliha]

Do you think she had baby teeth left or just unusually small teeth?

 

[CarlK90245]

BTW, I've been trying for several months to trace down current info on a girl whose initials are MG who was in 11th grade at Fort Lauderdale High School in 1974. She is smiling in her Junior year portrait, and although the photo is not very clear, I could see that had very similarly gapped teeth.

She had a very unusual surname, but I have not been able to find anything on her other than her high school portrait in the 1974 yearbook.

I still haven't gotten anywhere with this girl from Fort Lauderdale High School. I am going to go ahead and post her photo. I can't refer to her here by name, so I will put go with her initials MG. I am not sure that her surname is correct, as it is printed in the yearbook next to her photo. I have never heard of anyone with that surname.

She doesn't appear as a senior in the 1975 yearbook. She might have moved away, or dropped out. Or she might be this Jane Doe. I don't know. But I haven't been able to locate any record of anyone by that name.

I have never called her in to LE. I've been holding off in the hopes that I could find something more on this girl (i.e., whether her post-1975 whereabouts can be verified).

But since this thread has been bumped up again, I am going ahead and posting it here.

 

[Houston Mom]

New on NamUs Diane Collins missing March 1974 from Michigan. Brown hair, 25 years old, 5'2" and 110 lbs with a gap. No picture.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/26943/6?current_page=physical_characteristics