FL FL - Daytona, WhtMale 2128UMFL, 11-21, near pond, denim jacket, May'72

[Alleykins]

My son is 10 and already has wisdom teeth....varies from individual to individual. We went to the dentist last month and you could clearly see them on the x-rays. I agree that they may have meant present as in "there", but not erupted.

Yea, that's what I figured, too, that some wisdom teeth will develop early, and some will develop later.

 

[tabacue]

I submitted Thomas Meuse through DOE.

 

[CCD]

IMO, when I read about the shaved region, I immediately thought it was something he was forced to do - maybe he'd been taken when he was younger and was 'bare' then, and his that was his captor's preference.Then he was discarded when he got to old....horrible to think.

 

[CountEveryMoment]

What about Robert James Brown? I think he kind of looks like the newer recon to me. He would had been 16 and he's blonde, but what if his hair was dyed and thats why he was shaved (if he was)? http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2259dmon.html

 

[Alleykins]

Another article about the exhumation, with lots of forensic details:
http://www.ocalapost.com/body-exhumed-cold-case-file-volusia-county-florida/

The most interesting information was this: he might be younger than they thought. I'm curious about that since he has all 32 teeth.

Evidence of his wounds was still apparent to the trained eye. Dr. Warren also made the first new discovery: the victim may have been younger than originally thought. It was believed that the victim was in his late teens or early twenties. However, Dr. Warren saw evidence that the victim may have actually been in his early teens, but his observations will be verified during a more thorough examination at a later date.

The article also indicates that most of the old case files have disappeared, so they're more or less starting from scratch.
I suppose it'll be a while before we hear any results from this.

Even after all this work, NamUs states: Status:Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling
Does anyone know if this is correct or if it hasn't updated since the body was exhumed?
Based on the article brought forward, it seemed like they were getting a sample and that it appeared they had sources for it.

 

[Alleykins]

I sent an inquiry off to NamUs to ask about the DNA status on this set of unidentified remains.

 

[carbuff]

Even after all this work, NamUs states: Status:Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling
Does anyone know if this is correct or if it hasn't updated since the body was exhumed?
Based on the article brought forward, it seemed like they were getting a sample and that it appeared they had sources for it.

That usually means they weren't able to obtain a good enough sample to generate a profile that meets CODIS standards. I think they require 13 loci. If the results only yielded 11 or 12, it might still be useful for identification but it would have to be done by hand. Or they might not have a usable result at all. That sometimes happens with older remains.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[Alleykins]

That usually means they weren't able to obtain a good enough sample to generate a profile that meets CODIS standards. I think they require 13 loci. If the results only yielded 11 or 12, it might still be useful for identification but it would have to be done by hand. Or they might not have a usable result at all. That sometimes happens with older remains.
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

I sent it because of the article dated 2013 that stated they exhumed the remains. I was trying to find out if that status was the result of them being unable to extract DNA from the exhumed corpse, or if it just wasn't updated.

 

[madamx]

As soon as I read this I thought of the Boy in the Box in 1957 PA. I remember the woman "M" that came forth saying her mother bought the kid and abused him. Somewhere I had read the parents ended up moving to Florida. I need to find it. But anyway It made me think maybe this of woman, since she liked little young boys according to her daughter.

IMO, when I read about the shaved region, I immediately thought it was something he was forced to do - maybe he'd been taken when he was younger and was 'bare' then, and his that was his captor's preference.Then he was discarded when he got to old....horrible to think.

 

[madamx]

I found this <modsnip: broken link>

Historical Information: This facility was established in the 1930's as a road prison. In 1972 it was converted to a work release center. In 1977 it was converted to a major institution and expanded to house adult male inmates. In October 1999, Zephyrhills CI took on the corrections mental health institution mission.

That's only a 23 minute walk, so WOW. Great find!!
There's a medical examiner, and jail as well. Seems like there must be some connection, or maybe taunting going on.

Detention Centers | Florida Department of Juvenile Justice

"A typical day in secure detention would involve hygiene, meals, school, structured physical and educational activities, and court appearance as scheduled. The average length of stay in secure detention is approximately 13 days."

So, if this center was open in 1972 (and I'm searching to see if it was), our UID could've done his 13 days there, and gotten killed afterwards. There's a number on the website, and I'd call it, but I'm not sure if it's the right place to, say, find records.

The school, by the way, currently is for children in grades 6-12. That certainly fits the age range.

 

[madamx]

I came across this which I had not seen and mentions a green 10 speed bicycle some money in his wallet and mentions his height as being taller.. I thought I would post this on the thread.


Date of Death/Recovery: May 7, 1972
Recovery Location: Daytona Beach, Florida

Synopsis: In May 1972, two witnesses discovered a body floating in a pond approximately three miles north of U.S. Hwy 92 near Daytona Beach, Florida.
The body was found partially nude, wearing only a red and white striped knit shirt. The remains are believed to be those of a 13 - 14 year old white male, approximately 54 - 58 tall.

His cause of death was multiple stab wounds, and his manner of death ruled a homicide. Numerous items were discovered near his body, including black shoes, brown socks, tweed pants, a blue jean jacket, a wallet containing $6.17 and a green Schwinn ten-speed bicycle.

Chemical isotope testing was conducted to estimate his geographical origin: the strontium and lead isotope data are consistent with a local U.S. origin of birth.

USF #: 16-019C
Volusia SO #: 72-0008227
ME Case #: 72-00087
NCIC #: U950028252
NamUs #: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

If anyone has information, please contact: Investigator Joseph Mullin, District Seven Medical Examiners Office, (386) 258-4060, jmullin@Volusia.org.


<modsnip: broken link>

 

[madamx]

Now with this Bike thing it makes me think the kid was local.. and the person had a van or pick up truck in order to take the bike also

I came across this which I had not seen and mentions a green 10 speed bicycle some money in his wallet and mentions his height as being taller.. I thought I would post this on the thread.


Date of Death/Recovery: May 7, 1972
Recovery Location: Daytona Beach, Florida

Synopsis: In May 1972, two witnesses discovered a body floating in a pond approximately three miles north of U.S. Hwy 92 near Daytona Beach, Florida.
The body was found partially nude, wearing only a red and white striped knit shirt. The remains are believed to be those of a 13 - 14 year old white male, approximately 5&#8217;4&#8221; - 5&#8217;8&#8221; tall.

His cause of death was multiple stab wounds, and his manner of death ruled a homicide. Numerous items were discovered near his body, including black shoes, brown socks, tweed pants, a blue jean jacket, a wallet containing $6.17 and a green Schwinn ten-speed bicycle.

Chemical isotope testing was conducted to estimate his geographical origin: the strontium and lead isotope data are consistent with a local U.S. origin of birth.

USF #: 16-019C
Volusia SO #: 72-0008227
ME Case #: 72-00087
NCIC #: U950028252
NamUs #: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

If anyone has information, please contact: Investigator Joseph Mullin, District Seven Medical Examiner&#8217;s Office, (386) 258-4060, jmullin@Volusia.org.
View attachment 114226

<modsnip: broken link>

 

[Alleykins]

Wow, that's the first I'd heard of a bike being found with him, and I don't recall a jean jacket, either.

I'm rather confused by the isotope results, it states

a local U.S. origin of birth.

Does that mean he was born, raised and lived in the local area? Or Florida in general? It's rather vague.

 

[fiver]

I found this http://www.dc.state.fl.us/facilities/region3/573.html

Historical Information: This facility was established in the 1930's as a road prison. In 1972 it was converted to a work release center. In 1977 it was converted to a major institution and expanded to house adult male inmates. In October 1999, Zephyrhills CI took on the corrections mental health institution mission.

that's not the right address and there was nothing around that location in 1973 as indicated by this aerial map.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071789/00019/92

also a ten speed bike usually has really skinny tires that would not work well with the unpaved sand roads of FL in 1972.

 

[madamx]

oh I don't know. I know someone had mentioned it in the beginning of this thread about a correctional facility and then I looked into it more and found that info.. maybe I looked up the wrong place oops..
I was just looking at the map link from 1973 link and at the bottom in the right hand corner looks like a little cluster of buildings or something.. I could be wrong its hard to tell. Yes I agree with you fiver on the riding a 10 speed bike would be very difficult on those roads and is why I had the thought the kid could have been picked up by someone with a Truck or a van.. maybe he got a flat and someone picked him up?

that's not the right address and there was nothing around that location in 1973 as indicated by this aerial map.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071789/00019/92

also a ten speed bike usually has really skinny tires that would not work well with the unpaved sand roads of FL in 1972.

 

[madamx]

Yes Alleykins I too was confused with the results, they really really are vague. It just seems to me like he was born in the US and not in another country.. which does not help much.

Wow, that's the first I'd heard of a bike being found with him, and I don't recall a jean jacket, either.

I'm rather confused by the isotope results, it states


Does that mean he was born, raised and lived in the local area? Or Florida in general? It's rather vague.

 

[madamx]

About the Green Schwinn I have been reading up apparently they were stolen a lot in 1972 and they had serial numbers that owners would register the bikes to. It would be interesting to know if this bike had a serial number and where it went to.. Some people even had Bicycle insurance.. There a lot of people out there that collect them and tell stories of bikes they had or had and had gotten stolen. I am thinking if there was a serial number on the bike maybe it could possibly be traced to a store or a town or something. It might help with a clue in some way. Its weird I have not read anything anywhere about a bicycle.

Here are some examples that I found


http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_paramountregistry.html

1972
C72158
BB #P632
P13-9
ST 61.5cm ctt
TT 58cm ctc
All-chrome
Campagnolo NR
95% original. Appears to be standard production geometry.
Originally purchased by William Green Sr. from unknown shop in West Palm Beach, FL; order originally placed through Mack Cyclery, Miami, Florida. ALL owners listed.


https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/23630136/

this is not from Florida but its from 1972

Steward, acting detective on the Appleton Police Department, wasn't on the street 15 minutes last Tuesday when he spied a young man riding a green, five speed Schwinn pull behind a downtown flat. A quick check of the serial number showed it matched one on Steward's bicycle "hot sheet" -- a notebook containing 20 pages of stolen bike numbers

S t e w a r d questioned the rider of the stolen cycle. He got the same story that's been fed him countless times during the week he had been on the one-man bicycle theft squad. "It isn't my bike. I borrowed it from somebody to ride home last night." The suspect supplied a name that would have to be checked out later. S t e w a r d w heeled the Schwinn to the police station. Enroute, h e stopped to check the serial numbers of eight more bikes. Police department records revealed t h a t the green Schwinn was stolen from in front of a downtown store July 10. It belonged to a Combined Locks resident. The bike had been locked to a friend's bike. The thief broke the lock Call Owner The owner would be called. He would be asked if his insurance company had been notified of the loss. If the owner hadn't been paid by the insurance company, he would get the bike back. If he had been paid, the insurance company might get the vehicle. Many people try to get the bike back and keep the insurance money, too, Steward said. But police try to double check. Bicycle larceny in Appleton is big business, just as it is in cities throughout the nation. And it's getting bigger


here is another one but from Iowa I saw the date of January 5 1972 which got my attention.. I will keep looking
https://newspaperarchive.com/muscatine-wednesday-muscatine-journal-jan-05-1972-p-2/
Bicycle theft Robert McFadden 1523 Lu cas St reported the theft of a green fivespeed Schwinn bi cycle

 

[Alleykins]

About the Green Schwinn I have been reading up apparently they were stolen a lot in 1972 and they had serial numbers that owners would register the bikes to. It would be interesting to know if this bike had a serial number and where it went to.. Some people even had Bicycle insurance.. There a lot of people out there that collect them and tell stories of bikes they had or had and had gotten stolen. I am thinking if there was a serial number on the bike maybe it could possibly be traced to a store or a town or something. It might help with a clue in some way. Its weird I have not read anything anywhere about a bicycle.

Here are some examples that I found


http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_paramountregistry.html

1972
C72158
BB #P632
P13-9
ST 61.5cm ctt
TT 58cm ctc
All-chrome
Campagnolo NR
95% original. Appears to be standard production geometry.
Originally purchased by William Green Sr. from unknown shop in West Palm Beach, FL; order originally placed through Mack Cyclery, Miami, Florida. ALL owners listed.


https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/23630136/

this is not from Florida but its from 1972

Steward, acting detective on the Appleton Police Department, wasn't on the street 15 minutes last Tuesday when he spied a young man riding a green, five speed Schwinn pull behind a downtown flat. A quick check of the serial number showed it matched one on Steward's bicycle "hot sheet" -- a notebook containing 20 pages of stolen bike numbers

S t e w a r d questioned the rider of the stolen cycle. He got the same story that's been fed him countless times during the week he had been on the one-man bicycle theft squad. "It isn't my bike. I borrowed it from somebody to ride home last night." The suspect supplied a name that would have to be checked out later. S t e w a r d w heeled the Schwinn to the police station. Enroute, h e stopped to check the serial numbers of eight more bikes. Police department records revealed t h a t the green Schwinn was stolen from in front of a downtown store July 10. It belonged to a Combined Locks resident. The bike had been locked to a friend's bike. The thief broke the lock Call Owner The owner would be called. He would be asked if his insurance company had been notified of the loss. If the owner hadn't been paid by the insurance company, he would get the bike back. If he had been paid, the insurance company might get the vehicle. Many people try to get the bike back and keep the insurance money, too, Steward said. But police try to double check. Bicycle larceny in Appleton is big business, just as it is in cities throughout the nation. And it's getting bigger


here is another one but from Iowa I saw the date of January 5 1972 which got my attention.. I will keep looking
https://newspaperarchive.com/muscatine-wednesday-muscatine-journal-jan-05-1972-p-2/
Bicycle theft Robert McFadden 1523 Lu cas St reported the theft of a green fivespeed Schwinn bi cycle

If they could be traced like that, I'm surprised it was left with him. Wonder if the police, at the time, contacted Schwinn.

 

[madamx]

Yeah Alleykins I don't know?!..Maybe the person that left the bike with him had no idea it could be traced.. oh who knows how these people think... I just for the heck of it started searching florida and green Schwinn and stolen and 1972 and missing boy on bike trying different keywords and I came up with all of that.. which I thought was interesting.. I wonder if the police did or could trace it.. I am just surprised that it was never mentioned not on Namus or the doenetwork or anywhere.. I wish there were photos.. I am fixed on this bike now!!
I also wish there were photos of his demin jacket and Purple tweed pants..

If they could be traced like that, I'm surprised it was left with him. Wonder if the police, at the time, contacted Schwinn.

 

[Alleykins]

Yeah I don't know..Maybe the person that left the bike with him had no idea it could be traced.. oh who knows how these people think... I just for the heck of it started searching florida and green Schwinn and stolen and 1972 and missing boy on bike trying different keywords and I came up with all of that.. which I thought was interesting.. I wonder if the police did or could trace it.. I am just surprised that it was never mentioned not on Namus or the doenetwork or anywhere.. I wish there were photos.. I am fixed on this bike now!!

I would send an inquiry and ask if they tried to trace the bike, couldn't hurt. I didn't know that about Schwinn