FL - Derek Rosa, 13, charged as adult in stabbing death of mother Irina Garcia in her sleep, 13 Oct 2023

[Seattle1]

Despite what LE knows, I worry that all this family's delusion/ support of this 13 year old who allegedly stabbed his mother with his own hands.... will pressure the courts to consider him differently. I absolutely hope they do not, as this puts him at public risk, TO the public. But then again this is Florida, which never ceases to surprise me, maybe they'll surprise with actual justice.

^^rbubm

Actually, they've been trying this pressure tactic since DR's arrest and more so after WR was removed from Juvenile Detention and sent to the county jail.

There was a multi-day hearing about this (i.e., return "the boy" to detention while awaiting trial) and WR's defense did not prevail-- pursuing both state and federal civil rights statutes.

IMO, not even the minors being held in the detention facility would be safe around DR. I think he's very skilled at presenting younger than his age while in fact being strong and very calculating.

 

[Charlot123]

^^rsbm

I listen lived to one of the hearing where I heard testimony from LE so this is MOO. A detective testified that DR sent photos of the victim and crime scene to a cyberspace contact residing outside of the US-- WR only knew his/her screen name and not their true identity.

Meaning that he viewed an unknown person across the globe as the friend. I shouldn't be surprised, but I still am. I hope all his communication gets known, including what his online friends told him. If the true identity and perhaps, ages of "friends" are different from the real ones, isn’t it scary, too?

 

[Charlot123]

^^rbubm

Actually, they've been trying this pressure tactic since DR's arrest and more so after WR was removed from Juvenile Detention and sent to the county jail.

There was a multi-day hearing about this (i.e., return "the boy" to detention while awaiting trial) and WR's defense did not prevail-- pursuing both state and federal civil rights statutes.

IMO, not even the minors being held in the detention facility would be safe around DR. I think he's very skilled at presenting younger than his age while in fact being strong and very calculating.

Who is WR? The same as DR?

If he is 13, he doesn't belong to a county jail.

 

[Charlot123]

Despite what LE knows, I worry that all this family's delusion/ support of this 13 year old who allegedly stabbed his mother with his own hands.... will pressure the courts to consider him differently. I absolutely hope they do not, as this puts him at public risk, TO the public. But then again this is Florida, which never ceases to surprise me, maybe they'll surprise with actual justice.

While there may be issues going on in the family, IMHO, their response is geared by anger at the stepfather that is not related to this particular situation. All of it is very hard to process, much less, understand.

 

[Kemug]

While there may be issues going on in the family, IMHO, their response is geared by anger at the stepfather that is not related to this particular situation. All of it is very hard to process, much less, understand.

You mean "everything was absolutely fine, until  he came along"?

 

[Charlot123]

You mean "everything was absolutely fine, until  he came along"?

Rather, "she didn't know him enough", or "she didn't know who she married." JMO. I don't know the SF at all, but no one has the right to try pinning the murder on the man who was out of town that night, has a solid alibi and physically, looks nothing like DR.

 

[Seattle1]

Who is WR? The same as DR?

If he is 13, he doesn't belong to a county jail.

Yes, please forgive my typo-- WR should have been DR.

DR is housed in the separate area of the jail with other juveniles and not in general population unit.

I believe Florida has learned from experience that the alternative to Juvenile Detention for a defendant like DR who may have had a psychotic break is the mental ward of a state facility but this isn't always the in the best interest of the defendant, other patients, or the staff.

Linked below is an example of what recently happened in Colorado with teens housed in the mental hospital.

Policies for housing an "inmate patient" versus monitoring a juvenile inmate housed in jail are very different where staff in the hospital ward have their hands tied, and can lead to a serious loss of control where everybody is in danger! Public seldom learns the details because the inmate patients are covered by HIPAA. MOO

'I felt like nobody had my back,' Employees raise concerns over incidents in mental health hospital unit

Current and former employees of the Colorado Mental Health Hospital in Pueblo say there's a pattern of incidents between patients and staff in the Adolescent Behavioral Treatment Unit (ABTU).

www.koaa.com

 

[Seattle1]

Here's the Judge's ruling not to return DR to juvenile only facility until his trial begins following a multi-day testimony:

Judge denies bid to transfer Derek Rosa back to juvie after being charged in mom’s murder

A Miami-Dade County judge is expected to decide Friday whether Derek Rosa, 13, who is accused of killing his mother, Irina Garcia, 39, in October will be transferred back to juvenile detention.

www.local10.com

12/15/23

In court on Friday, testimony was heard from instructors who are teaching Rosa different school subjects, as prosecutors argue that the teen is receiving the appropriate care that is required by law.

[..]

Oden said Rosa, who is being kept alone in a cell under 24/7 supervision, is occasionally able to leave his cell and continues his middle school education, meeting with him at least three times a week and another three times a week with Kimberly Charles, a language arts teacher who testified Friday.

“Do you suspect he (Rosa) has a learning disability?” the judge asked Charles during her testimony.

“Yes,” she responded. “He is always telling me he doesn’t understand.”

[..]

“His autism spectrum disorder is another risk factor for suicide,” he [forensic psychologist] said.

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge. “I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

The social interaction he will get in a juvenile facility would help and I think we should treat him like his autism until that is proven not to be true,” Kupers suggested during his testimony.

The judge said in court that he was concerned about the time Rosa has spent outside the cell but said that corrections are in compliance while monitoring mental his health and that there were no clear violations of Rosa’s constitutional rights.

[..]

Corporal Cyrim Wimbs, a corrections officer from the Metro West Detention Center, testified that Rosa is under protective custody and is “flourishing.”

 

[AnyNameIWish]

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge. “I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

I kind of love this judge. Absolutely. Teachers from his middle school should be interviewed.... did he have any signs of being on the spectrum? Did he have any confrontations with students? Violent outbursts? Knowing these things would reflect a LOT more imo on DR's mental state, rather than a teacher who sees him a few hours a day a few times a week. "I don't understand" is a good mantra to keep saying to everyone and himself after the crime he allegedly committed. Imo he's a danger to everyone, even that Teacher. Frightening. Moo.

 

[neesaki]

Here's the Judge's ruling not to return DR to juvenile only facility until his trial begins following a multi-day testimony:

Judge denies bid to transfer Derek Rosa back to juvie after being charged in mom’s murder

A Miami-Dade County judge is expected to decide Friday whether Derek Rosa, 13, who is accused of killing his mother, Irina Garcia, 39, in October will be transferred back to juvenile detention.

www.local10.com

12/15/23

In court on Friday, testimony was heard from instructors who are teaching Rosa different school subjects, as prosecutors argue that the teen is receiving the appropriate care that is required by law.

[..]

Oden said Rosa, who is being kept alone in a cell under 24/7 supervision, is occasionally able to leave his cell and continues his middle school education, meeting with him at least three times a week and another three times a week with Kimberly Charles, a language arts teacher who testified Friday.

“Do you suspect he (Rosa) has a learning disability?” the judge asked Charles during her testimony.

“Yes,” she responded. “He is always telling me he doesn’t understand.”

[..]

“His autism spectrum disorder is another risk factor for suicide,” he [forensic psychologist] said.

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge. “I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

The social interaction he will get in a juvenile facility would help and I think we should treat him like his autism until that is proven not to be true,” Kupers suggested during his testimony.

The judge said in court that he was concerned about the time Rosa has spent outside the cell but said that corrections are in compliance while monitoring mental his health and that there were no clear violations of Rosa’s constitutional rights.

[..]

Corporal Cyrim Wimbs, a corrections officer from the Metro West Detention Center, testified that Rosa is under protective custody and is “flourishing.”

Re bolded. It sounds to me that this judge is showing good judgment. I appreciate that, especially in today’s messed up world. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I kind of love this judge. Absolutely. Teachers from his middle school should be interviewed.... did he have any signs of being on the spectrum? Did he have any confrontations with students? Violent outbursts? Knowing these things would reflect a LOT more imo on DR's mental state, rather than a teacher who sees him a few hours a day a few times a week. "I don't understand" is a good mantra to keep saying to everyone and himself after the crime he allegedly committed. Imo he's a danger to everyone, even that Teacher. Frightening. Moo.

Well, it is already a known fact to me that African-American kids are diagnosed with autism later than when their parents first voice concern.

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/13808/Study-Black-children-s-autism-diagnosis-typically?autologincheck=redirected

Now about Latinos. Still - less diagnosed than whites. The discrepancy was more significant 10 years ago. To add, we have to consider the socioeconomic class of the parents, as well as whether the school is in a rich or a poor district. If in a poor one, there will be less financial aid provided to the district, and only severe cases of autism might be paid attention to.

I would add one more question. Supposedly, a certain perpetrator is autistic - what side of his family does it come from? If a perpetrator lives predominantly with one parent and autistic traits comes from that parent’s line, I can see how fewer concerns might be raised. (A parent might be unaware of own atypicality, or tending to “normalize” the kid’s behavior).

I can’t comment on a person whom I haven’t seen, but the judge doesn’t have the education to just waive aside the diagnosis that is made by neurodevelopmental and educational specialists. We already have a discordance of opinions - the school voiced no concerns about DR’s grades, while the teacher in jail thinks that DR may have problems understanding the material. Could DR simply fly under the radar in a large school with limited resources?

Racial and Ethnic Differences in Children Identified with ASD

This ADDM report found that the racial and ethnic differences in identifying 8-year-old children with ASD persist, but also some indications that the differences may be narrowing.

www.cdc.gov

I had such a concern about another adult criminal discussed here. He is going to end up forever behind bars. But in that case, the recidivism, institutionalization and age leave the society no choice. The society has to be protected from that murderer.

However, DR is only 13, and has not been incarcerated yet. It is just impossible to lightly sweep the concern aside, because unprofessional handling of the case will generate one appeal after another. JMO.

ETA. I Googled Hialeah. Here: “The per capita income in Hialeah in 2018 was $24,295, which is low income relative to Florida and the nation. This equates to an annual income of $97,180 for a family of four. However, Hialeah contains both very wealthy and poor people as well.” But given that the mother was a manicurist, the stepfather, a truck driver and the family of four lived in a small rented apartment, I doubt they were in a wealthy community. I need to explore the school.

 

[katydid23]

That judge said exactly what I was thinking when I read that DR was first diagnosed in prison.

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge.


“I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

 

[neesaki]

I kind of love this judge. Absolutely. Teachers from his middle school should be interviewed.... did he have any signs of being on the spectrum? Did he have any confrontations with students? Violent outbursts? Knowing these things would reflect a LOT more imo on DR's mental state, rather than a teacher who sees him a few hours a day a few times a week. "I don't understand" is a good mantra to keep saying to everyone and himself after the crime he allegedly committed. Imo he's a danger to everyone, even that Teacher. Frightening. Moo.

And it seems so devious, especially for a child his age. Scary, IMO.

 

[dulcinea]

As a middle and high school teacher I've seen many students who made it to secondary without being diagnosed with a learning disability or autism when they exhibited symptoms in elementary school. I am not saying that is what happened here, but it happens quite regularly, unfortunately. I wouldn't be surprised to hear either way on the outcome for DR. Something about this case makes me think he is cunning enough to figure out how to manipulate adults. They need to do some digging beyond looking at meaningless report cards.

 

[Chimera]

That judge said exactly what I was thinking when I read that DR was first diagnosed in prison.

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge.


“I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

Great points.

I kind of love this judge. Absolutely. Teachers from his middle school should be interviewed.... did he have any signs of being on the spectrum? Did he have any confrontations with students? Violent outbursts? Knowing these things would reflect a LOT more imo on DR's mental state, rather than a teacher who sees him a few hours a day a few times a week. "I don't understand" is a good mantra to keep saying to everyone and himself after the crime he allegedly committed. Imo he's a danger to everyone, even that Teacher. Frightening. Moo.

Imo he will more than likely go on to commit more crimes.
Sadly, I'm not sensing much remorse from the perp, at this time.
Omo.

 

[Seattle1]

That judge said exactly what I was thinking when I read that DR was first diagnosed in prison.

“Nobody ever diagnosed him with autism ever before except someone at the jail?” asked the judge.


“I have a good 7-8 years of school records that don’t indicate that either and all of a sudden someone in the jail after incarceration thinks he has autism?”

Plus he was diagnosed by somebody that had never examined him! This was a typical overreach by a defense team praying on constitutional law versus the health and welfare of the defendant, other inmates, and the staff. JMO

ETA: per my MSM linked above:

Kupers, who is a forensic psychologist, reviewed Rosa’s medical records but never examined him in person.

 

[Seattle1]

And it seems so devious, especially for a child his age. Scary, IMO.

I listened to this hearing live last December and I'll never forget the testimony by Detective Joseph Elosegui. Sure, DR may be learning disabled but he's also strong and beyond cruel:

Detective Joseph Elosegui, with the Hialeah Police Department’s Major Crimes Unit, who testified that Garcia had 46 stab wounds all over her body, and the only parts of her body that didn’t have stab wounds were behind her knees.

Elosequi also testified that further investigation showed that Rosa made six Google searches on the evening of his mother’s death. Those searches included:

“The carotid artery image diagram.”

“What is the best place to stab someone?”

“Is a small knife good for killing?”

“Is it easier to kill someone with a small knife?”

“Can a knife cut through bone?”

See my MSM link above.

 

[neesaki]

I listened to this hearing live last December and I'll never forget the testimony by Detective Joseph Elosegui. Sure, DR may be learning disabled but he's also strong and beyond cruel:

Detective Joseph Elosegui, with the Hialeah Police Department’s Major Crimes Unit, who testified that Garcia had 46 stab wounds all over her body, and the only parts of her body that didn’t have stab wounds were behind her knees.

Elosequi also testified that further investigation showed that Rosa made six Google searches on the evening of his mother’s death. Those searches included:

“The carotid artery image diagram.”

“What is the best place to stab someone?”

“Is a small knife good for killing?”

“Is it easier to kill someone with a small knife?”

“Can a knife cut through bone?”

See my MSM link above.

Thank you Seattle. This person truly Has serious problems. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

Well, it is already a known fact to me that African-American kids are diagnosed with autism later than when their parents first voice concern.

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/13808/Study-Black-children-s-autism-diagnosis-typically?autologincheck=redirected

Now about Latinos. Still - less diagnosed than whites. The discrepancy was more significant 10 years ago. To add, we have to consider the socioeconomic class of the parents, as well as whether the school is in a rich or a poor district. If in a poor one, there will be less financial aid provided to the district, and only severe cases of autism might be paid attention to.

I would add one more question. Supposedly, a certain perpetrator is autistic - what side of his family does it come from? If a perpetrator lives predominantly with one parent and autistic traits comes from that parent’s line, I can see how fewer concerns might be raised. (A parent might be unaware of own atypicality, or tending to “normalize” the kid’s behavior).

I can’t comment on a person whom I haven’t seen, but the judge doesn’t have the education to just waive aside the diagnosis that is made by neurodevelopmental and educational specialists. We already have a discordance of opinions - the school voiced no concerns about DR’s grades, while the teacher in jail thinks that DR may have problems understanding the material. Could DR simply fly under the radar in a large school with limited resources?

Racial and Ethnic Differences in Children Identified with ASD

This ADDM report found that the racial and ethnic differences in identifying 8-year-old children with ASD persist, but also some indications that the differences may be narrowing.

www.cdc.gov

I had such a concern about another adult criminal discussed here. He is going to end up forever behind bars. But in that case, the recidivism, institutionalization and age leave the society no choice. The society has to be protected from that murderer.

However, DR is only 13, and has not been incarcerated yet. It is just impossible to lightly sweep the concern aside, because unprofessional handling of the case will generate one appeal after another. JMO.

ETA. I Googled Hialeah. Here: “The per capita income in Hialeah in 2018 was $24,295, which is low income relative to Florida and the nation. This equates to an annual income of $97,180 for a family of four. However, Hialeah contains both very wealthy and poor people as well.” But given that the mother was a manicurist, the stepfather, a truck driver and the family of four lived in a small rented apartment, I doubt they were in a wealthy community. I need to explore the school.

To be clear, the subject hearing and the Judge's comments were specific to the question of whether or not DR should be returned to the juvenile detention center, or remain in county jail where he's (mental health) currently monitored and housed with another juvenile.

The Court had previously ruled that DR will be tried as an adult. Testimony was presented that confirmed DR is attending school in corrections and no evidence of violations of his civil rights.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Imo he will more than likely go on to commit more crimes.
Sadly, I'm not sensing much remorse from the perp, at this time.

Exactly. And if he has a bunch of family members telling him he has done NOTHING wrong, fighting for him to come home under just house arrest, what a disservice to the entire community! Pretty sure a look see into his entire cyber history will show more disturbing stuff... moo.

Hoping FL does right by the entire neighborhood and keeps him locked up!!! I worry about that teacher's safety!