FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[CARIIS]

How it really works (FAIL)

the past decade, nearly 12,000 people have been hospitalized 10 or more times apiece, state data sho

newspaper found a mental health system that is failing those who need it most: the persistently, seriously mentally ill. But why?



ws. Of those, 627 were hospitalized 35 times or more each.
Florida does not have enough treatment centers, therapeutic aftercare and housing options to keep mentally ill people stable for long stretches, so many go through repeated medical crises.


Hospitals rarely go to court to force people to stay past the 72 hours


Florida's health care system is too stressed to prevent the tragedies.

Scott threatened to kill his mother and "get" his father in April 2013, police took him for emergency psychiatric care, records show.

"Without treatment I believe that Scott will hurt people around him," the officer wrote. The hospital quickly released him.[/COLOR]


Four days later, 81-year-old Norman Scott was dead -- stabbed 13 times, police said, by his only child.

state last year spent one-third less per capita on mental health and drug treatment than it did in 2000, according to a Sun Sentinel analysis of data.

Hospitals have discharged people without places to go, sending them out with bus passes or cab vouchers.


Time and again, patients are hospitalized under the act and sent home -- only to soon inflict grave harm on those trying hardest to help them.

violence can be triggered by delusions and imagined fears: They're acting in self-defense from some perceived threat, or they're stamping out demons

.....families described how hospitals across the state sedate people, give them powerful anti-psychotic drugs, get them talking coherently again -- then swiftly send them home--

"All the hospitals do is smother them with medication,"

http://projects.sun-sentinel.com/projects/dyingforhelp/

http://projects.sun-sentinel.com/projects/bakeract/

Lots more at links

 

[katydid23]

How it really works (FAIL)

the past decade, nearly 12,000 people have been hospitalized 10 or more times apiece, state data sho

newspaper found a mental health system that is failing those who need it most: the persistently, seriously mentally ill. But why?



ws. Of those, 627 were hospitalized 35 times or more each.
Florida does not have enough treatment centers, therapeutic aftercare and housing options to keep mentally ill people stable for long stretches, so many go through repeated medical crises.


Hospitals rarely go to court to force people to stay past the 72 hours


Florida's health care system is too stressed to prevent the tragedies.

Scott threatened to kill his mother and "get" his father in April 2013, police took him for emergency psychiatric care, records show.

"Without treatment I believe that Scott will hurt people around him," the officer wrote. The hospital quickly released him.[/COLOR]


Four days later, 81-year-old Norman Scott was dead -- stabbed 13 times, police said, by his only child.

state last year spent one-third less per capita on mental health and drug treatment than it did in 2000, according to a Sun Sentinel analysis of data.

Hospitals have discharged people without places to go, sending them out with bus passes or cab vouchers.


Time and again, patients are hospitalized under the act and sent home -- only to soon inflict grave harm on those trying hardest to help them.

violence can be triggered by delusions and imagined fears: They're acting in self-defense from some perceived threat, or they're stamping out demons

.....families described how hospitals across the state sedate people, give them powerful anti-psychotic drugs, get them talking coherently again -- then swiftly send them home--

"All the hospitals do is smother them with medication,"

http://projects.sun-sentinel.com/projects/dyingforhelp/

http://projects.sun-sentinel.com/projects/bakeract/

Lots more at links

In defense of the hospitals though, what do we expect them to do? They are in an impossible situation. If a person in meltdown crisis status comes to them, and they are able to stabilize the patient--using meds, therapy and rest, and nutrients after a few days---THEN WHAT? A person who is schizophrenic, or bipolar or severely depressed, is ALWAYS going to deal with that illness. They cannot live out the rest of their days inside the hospital, unless they are severely ill and totally out of touch with reality.

So once they have stabilized the patient, what should they do with them? They cannot force someone to stay there. All they can do is prescribe a small amount of meds that are working for them for the moment, and hope they follow up on the orders/suggestions they are given by the attending doctors. My brother was prescribed lithium and given a list of local mental health clinics to continue treatment with. And he was put on a waiting list for a group home. He moved in there for a few years and it was very helpful for him.

On one of his hospitalizations, he was very angry, aggressive and scary when he went in. We had called the police ourselves because he was in crisis mode. 5 days later, we had a family meeting there with the doctors in his unit---and we wanted him to be held longer. We played some threatening calls he had made and a recording we made to play for the police to show he was out of control.

They just shrugged and said ' that was last week.' He has recovered and is much improved. My brother came into the room and he was like a different person. He apologized for his behavior, said he had been off his meds---was sorry for his actions. And showed us the journal he was keeping and the painting he had done. He was calm---not like he was drugged. He was alert and rational.

So it was hard to expect that he would not be released from their care.

 

[CARIIS]

Line to check bags at Fort Lauderdale airport stretches outside

They put in dogs - what that has to do with anything is beyond me?

Jan 08, 2017[FONT=&amp]New security measures were in place at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport two days after a gunman opened fire, killing five. Bomb-sniffing dogs were pre-screening passengers moving through crowded checkpoints, and the line to check luggage stretched out the door.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article125994319.html#storylink=cpy
[/FONT]
The line was..............

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article125994319.html

 

[drjones]

weird how this story seems to have dropped off the radar, maybe it will end up being a good thing he is alive since he seems to be talking - first direct claim to be acting on behalf of ISIS, hopefully they can learn more from his online actions;

http://ktla.com/2017/01/17/fbi-fort...-says-he-carried-out-airport-attack-for-isis/

Federal authorities in Alaska said Santiago told them prior to the attack that he was hearing voices and that his mind was being controlled by the CIA. Santiago made no such claim during the six-hour interview conducted shortly after the January 6 shooting at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, Ferlazzo testified.
ISIS has not claimed responsibility for the attack.
Ferlazzo, who conducted the interview, said only that Santiago claimed to be fighting for ISIS and that he’d been in touch with like-minded people via jihadi chat rooms who were planning attacks as well.

 

[katydid23]

weird how this story seems to have dropped off the radar, maybe it will end up being a good thing he is alive since he seems to be talking - first direct claim to be acting on behalf of ISIS, hopefully they can learn more from his online actions;

http://ktla.com/2017/01/17/fbi-fort...-says-he-carried-out-airport-attack-for-isis/

Federal authorities in Alaska said Santiago told them prior to the attack that he was hearing voices and that his mind was being controlled by the CIA. Santiago made no such claim during the six-hour interview conducted shortly after the January 6 shooting at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, Ferlazzo testified.
ISIS has not claimed responsibility for the attack.
Ferlazzo, who conducted the interview, said only that Santiago claimed to be fighting for ISIS and that he’d been in touch with like-minded people via jihadi chat rooms who were planning attacks as well.

It does not sound like he was out of touch with reality, nor flooded with hallucinations or delusions or voices in his head. He seems to have confessed to communicating with Jihadists online.

 

[CARIIS]

It does not sound like he was out of touch with reality, nor flooded with hallucinations or delusions or voices in his head. He seems to have confessed to communicating with Jihadists online.

IMO its delusions- they were all either CIA agents, he was in a war zone, he was on a mission, all related to delusions


He bought a ticket to NY connected flight to go to his homeland - and the media leaves out the rest of the interinay- shooter booked a flight to NY on New years

That is not correct - his ticket was to Perto Rico to family

Only speculation -- of course

He is sick. There is noone , in this climate wants to go to the FBI and report that the CIA is making him a terrorist - that is nuts .

His life history the the year before - is he got fired, was beating his wife - his neighbors were reporting violent behaviors

this is mental illness

this kid was losing it - I would think seeing people you like livers and spleens , and hearts , and brains , and leg muscles, and kidneys, and ankles, and stomachs , and arms , and fingers , might mess you up

just mo

 

[Gardenista]

Airport shooter Esteban Santiago said he visited 'jihadi chat rooms' online, prosecutors say

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/201...ted-jihadi-chat-rooms-online-prosecutors-say/

 

[human]

It does not sound like he was out of touch with reality, nor flooded with hallucinations or delusions or voices in his head. He seems to have confessed to communicating with Jihadists online.

Is your brothet the same way? In and out of different realities?

 

[CARIIS]

Is your brothet the same way? In and out of different realities?

A lot of it is training loved ones how to respond.


They can change in an instant - it is not like pure change , its more like calming , suddenly, a lot - if handled - not always but a lot more than most would imagine


eu really do not try to engage in their delsuions, its pretty much trying to reorient them to here and now

IE

. All these people are from the CIA and they are after me

Your in the airport - you are safe, I am here, these are passengers, they are just getting their bags

they are from the Cia and after me

pretty much just keep the theme the same, orienting, talking soft, assure safety, dont really try to dispute ( they are not from the CIA) it can result in them trying to convicne you - which increases agiatation

THEY ARE FROM THE CIA

dont go there

go back to safety - your safe, I am here,

etc

believe it or not if they have some rapport with you ,they can for the most part be calmed but you have to be careful - cause getting restimulated again can start the whole cycle again

is it OK if we just go in this room and be quiet for a bit etc get them away from stimulation

obviously in varies - but the longer I went the less scared I got

you know what the most scary folks were,?, pervasive developmental disordered folks- kids- that was just instant- complete out of control - head banging self injury just scary

I quit taking them I could not cope -

with delusions and hallucinations most of the time you could tell they were escalating, actually rarely was it this sudden thing (pacing, talking to themselves louder, some eye changes)- you had , generally speaking some "time"

but core is never try persuading them the Martians are not real , they are not Jesus etc

orient to place and person

your in the hospital - your safe, I am here, all these people are here to keep everyone safe

believe it or not if they were yours - it was amazing to say "you are scaring me now, I do not feel safe, I am not going to hurt you, I do not want you to hurt to me etc

Most of the time , in the hospital setting, you could get them to walk into (after you get good !) the seclusion room on their own- what happened next varied.

And yes there were folks that did have to be restrained - 5 point two arms two legs and waist, careful of biting and a shot in the tushie

but I became much less scared of them as I proceeded

after they clear sweet sweet people, they are scared to death- and in some instances do feel remorse for their outbursts

I just adored my schizophrenics and bipolar impacted folks

 

[CARIIS]

weird how this story seems to have dropped off the radar, maybe it will end up being a good thing he is alive since he seems to be talking - first direct claim to be acting on behalf of ISIS, hopefully they can learn more from his online actions;

http://ktla.com/2017/01/17/fbi-fort...-says-he-carried-out-airport-attack-for-isis/

Federal authorities in Alaska said Santiago told them prior to the attack that he was hearing voices and that his mind was being controlled by the CIA. Santiago made no such claim during the six-hour interview conducted shortly after the January 6 shooting at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, Ferlazzo testified.
ISIS has not claimed responsibility for the attack.
Ferlazzo, who conducted the interview, said only that Santiago claimed to be fighting for ISIS and that he’d been in touch with like-minded people via jihadi chat rooms who were planning attacks as well.

Had to be just exhausted - not sleeping, longest domestic flight segment in USA (linked earlier) just shot a bunch of people, (think how fried we all are after doing three airports!) and in a safe small and quiet environment with only a few people, one at a time talking etc

 

[katydid23]

Is your brothet the same way? In and out of different realities?

Not really. He is pretty well medicated these days and he understands that the voices are 'his baggage' as he describes them.

When he was having his worst crisis, he believed Johnny Carson was speaking to him in code, while on the Tonight Show. He even got arrested for rushing the stage in Burbank one time. But when he spoke to a lawyer afterwards, he kept the same consistent story. The same with when he spoke to the judge. So he went to the hospital instead of jail.

 

[katydid23]

IMO its delusions- they were all either CIA agents, he was in a war zone, he was on a mission, all related to delusions


He bought a ticket to NY connected flight to go to his homeland - and the media leaves out the rest of the interinay- shooter booked a flight to NY on New years

That is not correct - his ticket was to Perto Rico to family

Only speculation -- of course

He is sick. There is noone , in this climate wants to go to the FBI and report that the CIA is making him a terrorist - that is nuts .

His life history the the year before - is he got fired, was beating his wife - his neighbors were reporting violent behaviors

this is mental illness

this kid was losing it - I would think seeing people you like livers and spleens , and hearts , and brains , and leg muscles, and kidneys, and ankles, and stomachs , and arms , and fingers , might mess you up

just mo

He already shot a lot of people. Why would he say he was speaking to Jihadi's online, and not say the same thing he told the FBI earlier---that he was forced to by the US CIA? Why change the story now?

 

[dotr]

Not really. He is pretty well medicated these days and he understands that the voices are 'his baggage' as he describes them.

When he was having his worst crisis, he believed Johnny Carson was speaking to him in code, while on the Tonight Show. He even got arrested for rushing the stage in Burbank one time. But when he spoke to a lawyer afterwards, he kept the same consistent story. The same with when he spoke to the judge. So he went to the hospital instead of jail.

Fwiw, an unusual perspective..
https://crazywisefilm.com/2014/02/17/interview-with-gabor-mate-the-myth-of-normal/

Dr. Gabor Mate is a Hungarian-born physician, living in Vancouver, B.C., who grew up and was educated in Canada. He began the interview by addressing the ‘myth of normal’ that divides us into the normal and the abnormal with pathological traits. Dr. Mate mentions that he doesn’t see a division, but a continuum where mental distress, of some degree, is present in all of us. He explains how mental distress and pathology are largely a result of a materialist culture that “idealizes individualism and ignores our emotional needs”.

 

[drjones]

i didnt see any reason to doubt all the reports that he was struggling with mental illness before, and i dont see any reason to doubt the reports that he is claiming to have done this for ISIS now.

they will be able to prove if he was visiting chat rooms and if he had any direct contact or instruction from anyone.

this also doesnt retroactively make it true that he was "recording islamic music and posting it online" (he wasnt), or that he was posting on "middle eastern pro-jihad forums" 10 years ago (still zero evidence of this)

 

[Tawny]

Because nobody has ever confessed to something they didn't do before. ?

Especially mentally ill persons. ?

But if it fits your preconceived notion of what you think happened, I guess it's confirmation for ya. (*general you*)

 

[Tawny]

He already shot a lot of people. Why would he say he was speaking to Jihadi's online, and not say the same thing he told the FBI earlier---that he was forced to by the US CIA? Why change the story now?

Because he is mentally ill? You'd think having experience with this kind of thing...

Not really. He is pretty well medicated these days and he understands that the voices are 'his baggage' as he describes them.

When he was having his worst crisis, he believed Johnny Carson was speaking to him in code, while on the Tonight Show. He even got arrested for rushing the stage in Burbank one time. But when he spoke to a lawyer afterwards, he kept the same consistent story. The same with when he spoke to the judge. So he went to the hospital instead of jail.

 

[CARIIS]

he was involuntarily discharged in August

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fort-lauderdale-hollywood-airport-shooting/fl-gunsandalaska-20170122-story.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Airport shooter pleads not guilty to 22 charges

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article129550614.html


Santiago told investigators he was inspired by Islamic State and had previously chatted online with Islamist extremists, according to FBI testimony presented in court.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-idUSKBN15E26U

 

[Elley Mae]

Judge: Florida airport shooting suspect refusing medication

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-02-03-11-08-12

The nature of Santiago's mental condition was not disclosed. Earlier, the FBI said Santiago complained of hearing voices and government mind control in interviews with agents. Santiago also claimed inspiration for the shooting came from Islamic State extremists.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychotropic_medications

 

[CARIIS]

[FONT=&quot]psychotropic drugs

[/FONT]Commonly Prescribed Psychotropic Medications. Antipsychotics. (used in the treatment of schizophrenia and mania)

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS702US702&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=psychotropic+drugs