FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #13 *1 guilty*

[Gypsy Road]

I have YT Premium and checked the channel, but nothing recent is listed. The last item was an interview with Ruth Markel 3 weeks ago.

~ E

I’ve been checking as well. I was home most of the day last Thursday while decorating for Christmas and had Court TV on while floofing my house- and it was advertised that day. I was really looking forward to seeing the entire segment, but I went out to dinner and came home only to see about 5 minutes of the clip. I hope we can find it.

It was not my imagination that it was on. I promise!

 

[Gypsy Road]

I got the word from Joel from the Surviving the Survivor podcast -- who was a guest on the show-- that Vinnie Politan's Closing Arguments episode on this case will be uploaded on CTV later this week.

Hallelujah. I was beginning to think no one here believed I saw it, or that I dreamed it all up it! LOL

 

[Gypsy Road]

See my post above that the episode of Closing Arguments on this case will be uploaded this week. When I listened to Vinnie on the STS podcast talk about it, I was surprised how well versed he is on this case. He also made a reference to them having cameras in the courtroom (I think speculating about Charlie's trial). I'm having a feeling they are going to cover that trial.

Yay. I hope so! If not, maybe we can watch it on Law and Crime YT. Also the Tallahassee Democrat will probably stream it, but i hope Court TV covers it.

I just received Steven Epstein’s book on this case. Excited to get started on it!

Is KM still in Tallahassee?

 

[katiecoolady]

Yay. I hope so! If not, maybe we can watch it on Law and Crime YT. Also the Tallahassee Democrat will probably stream it, but i hope Court TV covers it.

I just received Steven Epstein’s book on this case. Excited to get started on it!

Is KM still in Tallahassee?

I have not heard any different. And people are watching the records like hawks. I find the longer she stays in Tallahassee the more promising that she has offered helpful information. I just have a sneaky feeling that she wants to stay there, so perhaps negotiated that (staying there until she testifies) as part of a deal. Someone suggested maybe she is staying there so Rashbaum can also interview here there before the next CM conference. I also ordered Epstein's book. I read (or maybe heard?) a segment about Charlie's arrest that was pretty fascinating.

 

[Weki]

So I found the Surviving the Survivor podcast with Vinnie Politan. I thought his apperance was after the KM proffer but it wasn't. I have to say that I found the host and his mother quite painful to listen to but I hung in there for Vinnie. Vinnie raised some interesting points:

1. Donna saving Charlie by falling on her sword at his trial. [IMO, there's no chance in he** of this happening.]
2. He thinks there's enough to charge all the Adelsons [I agree with the gist of his argument that all must be tried even if Charlie is the most likely to get convicted based on what we know so far.]
3. Charlie turning against his parents/Wendi to save his own skin [Vinnie says he doesn't know enough of the famlily dynamics but he has Charlie (accurately IMO) pegged as a wanna-be tough guy who's watched too much Sopranos. Host thinks Charlie won't be able to hang in prison and will fold. I think maaaaaybe Charlie could turn against Wendi but not his parents.]
4. He thinks Sigfredo should've man'd up & saved Katie by testifying that he had direct contact with Charlie and she wasn't involved [I guess he doesn't realize that state had jail calls that would've likely completely discredited him. I think the jury would've seen right through this and it wouldn't have saved Katie.]

 

[Mariposa]

So I found the Surviving the Survivor podcast with Vinnie Politan. I thought his apperance was after the KM proffer but it wasn't. I have to say that I found the host and his mother quite painful to listen to but I hung in there for Vinnie. Vinnie raised some interesting points:

1. Donna saving Charlie by falling on her sword at his trial. [IMO, there's no chance in he** of this happening.]
2. He thinks there's enough to charge all the Adelsons [I agree with the gist of his argument that all must be tried even if Charlie is the most likely to get convicted based on what we know so far.]
3. Charlie turning against his parents/Wendi to save his own skin [Vinnie says he doesn't know enough of the famlily dynamics but he has Charlie (accurately IMO) pegged as a wanna-be tough guy who's watched too much Sopranos. Host thinks Charlie won't be able to hang in prison and will fold. I think maaaaaybe Charlie could turn against Wendi but not his parents.]
4. He thinks Sigfredo should've man'd up & saved Katie by testifying that he had direct contact with Charlie and she wasn't involved [I guess he doesn't realize that state had jail calls that would've likely completely discredited him. I think the jury would've seen right through this and it wouldn't have saved Katie.]

IMO, CA is clearly the architect of the hit and while other “A” family members could be charged, I don’t think he would be getting a great plea deal no matter what he says to further implicate them.

I disagree with the podcaster about SG being able to save KM by testifying (lying) that she was not involved. That forgets not just all the phone pings and other digital evidence showing her in the mix, including for the money drop the day after, but also forgets the testimony of LR who would be much more credible on KM matters as he had no real personal relationship with her vs lovesick fool SG.

 

[Gypsy Road]

So I found the Surviving the Survivor podcast with Vinnie Politan. I thought his apperance was after the KM proffer but it wasn't. I have to say that I found the host and his mother quite painful to listen to but I hung in there for Vinnie. Vinnie raised some interesting points:

1. Donna saving Charlie by falling on her sword at his trial. [IMO, there's no chance in he** of this happening.]
2. He thinks there's enough to charge all the Adelsons [I agree with the gist of his argument that all must be tried even if Charlie is the most likely to get convicted based on what we know so far.]
3. Charlie turning against his parents/Wendi to save his own skin [Vinnie says he doesn't know enough of the famlily dynamics but he has Charlie (accurately IMO) pegged as a wanna-be tough guy who's watched too much Sopranos. Host thinks Charlie won't be able to hang in prison and will fold. I think maaaaaybe Charlie could turn against Wendi but not his parents.]
4. He thinks Sigfredo should've man'd up & saved Katie by testifying that he had direct contact with Charlie and she wasn't involved [I guess he doesn't realize that state had jail calls that would've likely completely discredited him. I think the jury would've seen right through this and it wouldn't have saved Katie.]

I agree with your thoughts. I wish we knew more about the Adelson family dynamics. It’ll be interesting to see if CA rolls on any of the other family members. They seem so enmeshed, so my personal thoughts are that he won’t roll on any of them, but we shall see! I feel that Donna set it all in motion and Charlie made it happen. Not sure how Harvey and Wendi fit it, but they HAD to have known that the murder was going down. I also agree that the podcaster and his mom were hard and very frustrating to listen to! I could barely get through their interview with Ms Cappleman! I wanted to hear her answers in complete sentences without their interruptions. They kept interrupting her and the poor mom seemed a bit clueless at times.

 

[Weki]

I agree with your thoughts. I wish we knew more about the Adelson family dynamics. It’ll be interesting to see if CA rolls on any of the other family members. They seem so enmeshed, so my personal thoughts are that he won’t roll on any of them, but we shall see! I feel that Donna set it all in motion and Charlie made it happen. Not sure how Harvey and Wendi fit it, but they HAD to have known that the murder was going down. I also agree that the podcaster and his mom were hard and very frustrating to listen to! I could barely get through their interview with Ms Cappleman! I wanted to hear her answers in complete sentences without their interruptions. They kept interrupting her and the poor mom seemed a bit clueless at times.

Right! Everybody and their momma (literally in this case) thinks they can be podcasters. It takes a certain personality, voice, curiosity, attitude etc to pull it off. He needs to pull his mom off and bring someone more dynamic. I’m surprised Vinnie and Cappelman went on there. How did he make that happen? Those are big gets for a nobody podcaster! The mom also made certain psychological parallels between her family and the Adelsons that seemed quite a STRETCH!

 

[Gypsy Road]

Right! Everybody and their momma (literally in this case) thinks they can be podcasters. It takes a certain personality, voice, curiosity, attitude etc to pull it off. He needs to pull his mom off and bring someone more dynamic. I’m surprised Vinnie and Cappelman went on there. How did he make that happen? Those are big gets for a nobody podcaster! The mom also made certain psychological parallels between her family and the Adelsons that seemed quite a STRETCH!

We’re on the same page!

 

[katiecoolady]

On Surviving the Survivor, they didn't start podcasting just for this case, but they are in the area (Miami) so got interested. Karmela (the Mom) is a Holocaust survivor, so he started (I believe) using the podcast forum to document her words while she's still alive. She's in her 80's now and is a retired licensed psychotherapist. His father, her husband, is in a nursing home now, but he's a retired Psychiatrist. Joel (the son) is writing a book about his mother and her life right now and using the podcast to develop some of his material. Interesting family.

Joel, the host, has an extensive background in journalism from MSNBC to FOX, to FoxNews to being the first journalist in Tucson on the scene when Gabby Giffords was shot. He references a complicated parting with FoxNews and so started his own company in media which he is building now. He is well connected though and has a booking agent and recently got Mark Geragos as a guest. People respect him and are willing to speak with him--he gets lots of good attorneys talking about this case like Jeremy Mutz and John Singer, both of whom are super obsessed with it like many of us.

Karmela is clearly up in years, is dealing with a recent transition with her husband going in to a nursing home, so has some delays in her processing, but I think with her background professionally and personally, she has interesting things to offer. I personally think anyone who is a Holocaust survivor deserves my attention and respect as long as they are on the planet.

 

[katiecoolady]

So I found the Surviving the Survivor podcast with Vinnie Politan. I thought his apperance was after the KM proffer but it wasn't. I have to say that I found the host and his mother quite painful to listen to but I hung in there for Vinnie. Vinnie raised some interesting points:

1. Donna saving Charlie by falling on her sword at his trial. [IMO, there's no chance in he** of this happening.]
2. He thinks there's enough to charge all the Adelsons [I agree with the gist of his argument that all must be tried even if Charlie is the most likely to get convicted based on what we know so far.]
3. Charlie turning against his parents/Wendi to save his own skin [Vinnie says he doesn't know enough of the famlily dynamics but he has Charlie (accurately IMO) pegged as a wanna-be tough guy who's watched too much Sopranos. Host thinks Charlie won't be able to hang in prison and will fold. I think maaaaaybe Charlie could turn against Wendi but not his parents.]
4. He thinks Sigfredo should've man'd up & saved Katie by testifying that he had direct contact with Charlie and she wasn't involved [I guess he doesn't realize that state had jail calls that would've likely completely discredited him. I think the jury would've seen right through this and it wouldn't have saved Katie.]

What I'm trying to figure out is if Charlie would even have the option to cherry pick who to turn on. I've seen people weigh in both ways--that he could turn on one of them vs. he would have to serve up the entire true story and exactly who was involved and to what extent. I think if he could turn on Wendi to save himself, he would. There is documented animosity and competition there. Even June said there were periods where they weren't even speaking after the murder. But I'm not sure he could even do that.

Any lawyers wiling to weigh in on that question?

 

[BearWatcher]

I think the mom on Surviving the survivor brings a unique perspective with her psychology background. But, maybe I am used to people with her accent, so able to more easily hear what she is saying. I would like ‘Karm’s’ take on Wendy’s time in writing class and her thought on her ‘Late-ex husband’ statement and what is says about someone who shares that story online in light of a murdered ex of her two children. As I recall, the essay noted that it was hit man or hit men who killed her ex, but this was before anyone was arrested for the murder. Think she might give us a lot of insight if we pointed this essay out to her.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I meant no disrespect to the podcaster and his mom, I just didn’t like all the interruptions or style of interviewing. Much respect to him though for documenting his mom’s words and what mom lived through.

 

[Rivkah11]

I think the mom on Surviving the survivor brings a unique perspective with her psychology background. But, maybe I am used to people with her accent, so able to more easily hear what she is saying. I would like ‘Karm’s’ take on Wendy’s time in writing class and her thought on her ‘Late-ex husband’ statement and what is says about someone who shares that story online in light of a murdered ex of her two children. As I recall, the essay noted that it was hit man or hit men who killed her ex, but this was before anyone was arrested for the murder. Think she might give us a lot of insight if we pointed this essay out to her.

Agreed. Karm, the Survivor, although up in age, has much to offer. (Perhaps because I am also a Member of the Tribe, I adore Karm and will put up with Joel). As a PsyD, my area of specialization is death and complicated grief, so I’m curious what other psychologists have to offer on the dynamics of the A family.

 

[Weki]

What I'm trying to figure out is if Charlie would even have the option to cherry pick who to turn on. I've seen people weigh in both ways--that he could turn on one of them vs. he would have to serve up the entire true story and exactly who was involved and to what extent. I think if he could turn on Wendi to save himself, he would. There is documented animosity and competition there. Even June said there were periods where they weren't even speaking after the murder. But I'm not sure he could even do that.

Any lawyers wiling to weigh in on that question?

Not a lawyer but I feel like Charlie would have to tell the whole truth in order to get a deal. I know I said he may only give up Wendi but now that I think about it how can the state allow that/give him a deal for telling part of the story? It wouldn’t fit the evidence they have. If he wants a deal he will have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. They can’t put him up to testify when they know he’s lying. If he says Donna wasn’t involved, he would be lying. I can’t imagine Cappelman putting him up/giving him a deal when she knows he’s lying. Donna is the big fish in this conspiracy IMO

 

[vislaw]

What I'm trying to figure out is if Charlie would even have the option to cherry pick who to turn on. I've seen people weigh in both ways--that he could turn on one of them vs. he would have to serve up the entire true story and exactly who was involved and to what extent. I think if he could turn on Wendi to save himself, he would. There is documented animosity and competition there. Even June said there were periods where they weren't even speaking after the murder. But I'm not sure he could even do that.

Any lawyers wiling to weigh in on that question?

Cooperation cannot be halfway or anything less than full and complete disclosure. This is a principal that underlies all proffers and cooperation agreements. If Charlie would decide to cooperate he would be required to answer all questions truthfully before anything gets presented to the judge for approval. Any prevarication, misdirection, or evasion results in withdrawal of the offer. There are instances where a plea is reached without cooperation. Right now the jury is deliberating in the criminal case against the Trump Organization. Alan Weisselberg took a plea deal whereby he pled guilty to tax fraud and agreed to testify against the company (but not divulge information or provide incriminating information against Trump himself) in exchange for a short prison term. He specifically refused to cooperate beyond providing testimony at trial, however. Thus, he must testify truthfully at trial but did not agree to provide information and assistance to the investigation. This is all up to the prosecution. You can be assured that in Charlie's case he would not get a plea deal without providing testimony against the family.

 

[Weki]

My arm chair psychological perspective is that it will be every man/woman for him/herself in the Adelson household now that KM is singing. Donna’s best bet is to throw Charlie and Wendi under the bus and say they plotted the whole thing. Wendi will throw Donna and Charlie under the bus. Charlie can’t throw anyone under the bus bc there’s too much evidence against him and he’s the connection to KM and the killer & his driver. He paid. So he’s going down regardless. The question is for how long.

 

[Snacky]

Longtime lurker here.....my first post! If the goal of the state is to bring the entire family to justice, is it possible that if Charlie gives up the mishpucha, the state will guarantee that he and Wendi will avoid LWP? This is the only scenario I can imagine Charlie considering.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

My arm chair psychological perspective is that it will be every man/woman for him/herself in the Adelson household now that KM is singing. Donna’s best bet is to throw Charlie and Wendi under the bus and say they plotted the whole thing. Wendi will throw Donna and Charlie under the bus. Charlie can’t throw anyone under the bus bc there’s too much evidence against him and he’s the connection to KM and the killer & his driver. He paid. So he’s going down regardless. The question is for how long.

Agreed. The Maestro is going down for this and he's not getting any sweetheart deals. Even in the extremely unlikely event that he turned against both parents and his sister, hes still getting 25 years without parole at an absolute minimum. That puts him at 71 years old. So would he trade his family for the last 8 or 9 years living in a halfway house with all kinds of medical complications? My guess is not.

Donna should have absolutely been charged in 2016 and - at the latest - at the exact same time as Charlie. That she has not been arrested already is a scandal in and of itself. This slow methodical prosecution strategy would be much more effective if the conspirators were in their 20s, but these people are in their 70s. Having said that, the State's Attorney can save some face here by charging her post-Magbanua proffer if she has even the slightest bit of evidence against Donna, which she does in the form of sequential post-dated cheques written by Donna for services (murder) rendered.

So my real hope is the Magbanua proffer gets to Wendi and Harvey. Donna is already a no-brainer.

And you are right about the defense strategy of every defendant pointing at the other's guilt. Which is why this entire rotten family should be tried together.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Not a lawyer but I feel like Charlie would have to tell the whole truth in order to get a deal. I know I said he may only give up Wendi but now that I think about it how can the state allow that/give him a deal for telling part of the story? It wouldn’t fit the evidence they have. If he wants a deal he will have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. They can’t put him up to testify when they know he’s lying. If he says Donna wasn’t involved, he would be lying. I can’t imagine Cappelman putting him up/giving him a deal when she knows he’s lying. Donna is the big fish in this conspiracy IMO

I agree! And it’ll be interesting when the rest of the family is called as witnesses. Especially Donna. I wonder how she will hold up to being questioned?