GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #18

[Laura930]

The people arrested first were not exactly innocent victims, though they were not as wealthy or connected as the Adelsons. I do agree the Adelsons should have been charged sooner, but I have no problem with the state charging Katie, Rivera, and Garcia when they did. I also will never understand why the A’s weren’t charged. I can’t believe they had that much influence. Meggs was an officer of the court. I can’t imagine that he saw the evidence and concluded that there was enough to change them, but that he wasn’t going to do it because of some influence they had. That’s just so unethical. Maybe he thought there wasn‘t enough evidence, or that he had some room to maneuver.

FROM @amicuscurie: The people arrested first were not exactly innocent victims, though they were not as wealthy or connected as the Adelsons. I do agree the Adelsons should have been charged sooner. Katie wasn‘t forced to do what she did. To reduce her to a “brown” person who was prosecuted instead of the white people who should have been diminishes her agency and culpability. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, though. But some people do. is

@amicuscurie Sorry maybe you edited your response as now I see 2 different posts above:

No I am not reducing KM to a brown person, I brought his up as this was a defense strategy at her first trial as to why none of the Adelson’s had been charged and given the social justice climate that existed there was speculation that this contributed to the first hung jury.

And regarding MEEGS there have been many articles written about the fact that he did not want to arrest either KM or CA with SG and LR as stated in article below. Many in law enforcement were incredulous he at first refused to arrest KM. I purchased a subscription for the Tennessee Democrat for their detailed coverage of these events. The relationship between Meggs and the TPD is very contentious and does not make sense at all. Given that “ Meggs declined to approve probable cause for the arrest of Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, sources in the State Attorney’s Office confirmed TPD began seeking the authority of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida.”

Have highlighted MEGGS direct quotes and have linked article sources.

Tennessee Democrat Septemper 9, 2016
“After two years of investigation into the murder-for-hire plot of Dan Markel, prosecutors are unlikely to approve the arrest of his former in-laws.
Police chipped away at leads, drafting arrest affidavits filled with evidence laying out investigators’ case against Charlie and Donna Adelson, the brother and mother of Markel’s ex-wife Wendi Adelson.

Documents detailing their theories were made public Thursday.

But State Attorney Willie Meggs said the speculations of police investigators do not make a case for murder.

Documents detail potential links to Markel's in-laws

TPD's release of the documents is an indication of the tension between police — who have devoted extensive resources to piece together evidence — and prosecutors, who must rely on that evidence to try to secure a conviction.

But that’s the problem, Meggs said. It’s what investigators say, not necessarily what the evidence shows. Making the jump from theories to formal charges is a big leap.

“If they believe that somebody said something and we’re supposed to adopt what an officer thinks and arrest somebody, that’s not the way it works," Meggs said.

After Meggs declined to approve probable cause for the arrest of Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, sources in the State Attorney’s Office confirmed TPD began seeking the authority of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida.

Sources also say portions of the investigation that could have led to Magbanua’s arrest were bungled, primarily the chance to speak with her in the days before Garcia’s May 25 arrest.

Un-served probable cause for Charlie Adelson

Two TPD officers were sent to her Fort Lauderdale home for questioning. She was inside but didn’t answer the door, documents said. State attorney sources said they stayed roughly an hour then left.

Meggs said the documents released Thursday were working documents and should not have been made public.

TPD spokesman David Northway, however, said they were part of evidentiary discovery given to Garcia and Rivera’s defense attorney’s making them public.

“Our job is to collect the evidence,” Northway said. “It’s the job of the State Attorney’s Office to determine if the case could be tried in a court of law.”

Asked if there should have been more arrests by this point, Northway said: “That’s not up to us to determine.”

Documents reveal early Markel investigation

Meggs’ office and TPD have sparred since Garcia’s summer arrest.

TPD wanted to keep his charging documents confidential out of fear other potential defendants would flee the country. TPD’s attorney said she was not given notice Garcia's probable cause for arrest was going to be unsealed.
TPD investigators were suspicious State Attorney’s Office investigators were leaking information. Emails obtained during that time frame indicate the two offices often have disagreements on cases.

Meggs said those disagreements continue, but until police gather more substantial evidence that can be proven in court, there would likely be no more arrests in Markel's killing.

Officers can arrest Magbanua or the Adelsons without a warrant because they face felony charges, Meggs added.

“If they believe they have probable cause then they should go make the arrest. They don’t need me,” Meggs said. “I would say to Chief (Michael) DeLeo go make the arrest and get ready for your civil suit from whoever they have arrested without probable cause.'”

I have linked the articles below that are worth a read detailing the relationship between MEGGS and the TPD.

After two years of investigation into the murder-for-hire plot of Dan Markel, prosecutors are unlikely to approve the arrest of his former in-laws.
Tensions flare in Markel case after unexpected document drop

In newly released documents, the Tallahassee Police Department laid out its case for why two of Dan Markel’s in-laws should be considered prime suspects in his slaying.
Documents detail potential links to Markel's in-laws


October 6, 2016 Tennessee Democrat
“The court documents supporting her arrest, which were released by TPD on Sunday, are clear: The 31-year-old is the only apparent link between Markel and Garcia and Rivera. The trio, court documents said, "were compensated for their actions."

The 18-page probable cause affidavit, which was signed Friday, comes three weeks after State Attorney Willie Meggs said he would not approve arrests for Magbanua and Charlie Adelson. Meggs told the Tallahassee Democrat in early September there wasn't enough evidence for their arrests to hold up in court.”
Police suspect a South Florida love triangle provided the guns and money to kill Florida State law professor Dan Markel.
Reference: Police: Magbanua was 'conduit' in Markel slaying

 

[Windward Gal]

I’m starting to think I have a problem! I am completely obsessed by this case. I’m listening to Georgia’s closing again, it just never gets old. As far as Donna is concerned, I wonder whether there will even be a trial. It would have been great if all of them had been rounded up and grilled in separate rooms. Law enforcement could have bluffed telling them that the others were flipping. Get them singing like songbirds. I’m probably crazy but it’s fun to fantasize about.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Catching up. Did Willie Meggs have some type of connection to The Adelsons? Was he pressured somehow not to prosecute them or am I just thinking down the wrong road? Was he just super conservative about what cases to take on?

 

[IQuestion]

But how did the liquor store fit into the prior plan, if that was the plan? Or was ir a spur of the moment decision after the Trescott turnaround? To explain the route?

Yep, especially after she realized the police officer saw her, uh oh...you've just been spotted again WA. Ironically what a sociopath accuses others of doing, is exactly what they are doing! Didn't she accuse DM of stalking? Hmm, but she is actually the stalker..."when are you going out of town?" , "what time are you picking up the kids? etc."
DM had finally figured her out (there is always more than one addiction)...and the rage in her had become an uncontrollable storm. He was throwing her dysfunction/flaws back in her face and thwarting her efforts to move back to the people who thought she was their precious perfect offspring/sibling. She was becoming unhinged.
“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

 

[Laura930]

Catching up. Did Willie Meggs have some type of connection to The Adelsons? Was he pressured somehow not to prosecute them or am I just thinking down the wrong road? Was he just super conservative about what cases to take on?

That is the $64,000 question! I saw somewhere that there was speculation if he had not retired in November 2016 the Adelson’s would never have been arrested. Not sure where I saw that, perhaps on Justice for Dan? Someday I hope an adept journalist gets to the bottom of this story.

 

[alexwood]

The Behavior Panel is doing Charlie Adelson today. Although I’m confused by the title of their video - he was not calm. He was the most anxious defendant I’ve seen in a long time. Like I said before, Garcia was facing death and was more stoic than Charlie.

But I think, initially, at the very beginning of trial he appeared more relaxed.

 

[alexwood]

Catching up. Did Willie Meggs have some type of connection to The Adelsons? Was he pressured somehow not to prosecute them or am I just thinking down the wrong road? Was he just super conservative about what cases to take on?

Willie Meggs ('76) | College of Law

When William N. “Willie” Meggs retires in December 2016 as state attorney for the Second Judicial Circuit of Florida, he will have spent more than 40 years prosecuting cases for the office. Meggs has been around courtrooms for even longer. He began his career in law enforcement, taking...

law.fsu.edu

Read, this Gypsy Road. And I apologize if you have already read it because I posted it upthread. I have skimmed it over but am doing "things" and haven't thoroughly read it. It may give you some insight into Meggs' background and "who he is."

 

[amicuscurie]

FROM @amicuscurie: The people arrested first were not exactly innocent victims, though they were not as wealthy or connected as the Adelsons. I do agree the Adelsons should have been charged sooner. Katie wasn‘t forced to do what she did. To reduce her to a “brown” person who was prosecuted instead of the white people who should have been diminishes her agency and culpability. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, though. But some people do. is

@amicuscurie Sorry maybe you edited your response as now I see 2 different posts above:

No I am not reducing KM to a brown person, I brought his up as this was a defense strategy at her first trial as to why none of the Adelson’s had been charged and given the social justice climate that existed there was speculation that this contributed to the first hung jury.

And regarding MEEGS there have been many articles written about the fact that he did not want to arrest either KM or CA with SG and LR as stated in article below. Many in law enforcement were incredulous he at first refused to arrest KM. I purchased a subscription for the Tennessee Democrat for their detailed coverage of these events. The relationship between Meggs and the TPD is very contentious and does not make sense at all. Given that “ Meggs declined to approve probable cause for the arrest of Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, sources in the State Attorney’s Office confirmed TPD began seeking the authority of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida.”

Have highlighted MEGGS direct quotes and have linked article sources.

Tennessee Democrat Septemper 9, 2016
“After two years of investigation into the murder-for-hire plot of Dan Markel, prosecutors are unlikely to approve the arrest of his former in-laws.
Police chipped away at leads, drafting arrest affidavits filled with evidence laying out investigators’ case against Charlie and Donna Adelson, the brother and mother of Markel’s ex-wife Wendi Adelson.

Documents detailing their theories were made public Thursday.

But State Attorney Willie Meggs said the speculations of police investigators do not make a case for murder.

Documents detail potential links to Markel's in-laws

TPD's release of the documents is an indication of the tension between police — who have devoted extensive resources to piece together evidence — and prosecutors, who must rely on that evidence to try to secure a conviction.

But that’s the problem, Meggs said. It’s what investigators say, not necessarily what the evidence shows. Making the jump from theories to formal charges is a big leap.

“If they believe that somebody said something and we’re supposed to adopt what an officer thinks and arrest somebody, that’s not the way it works," Meggs said.

After Meggs declined to approve probable cause for the arrest of Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, sources in the State Attorney’s Office confirmed TPD began seeking the authority of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida.

Sources also say portions of the investigation that could have led to Magbanua’s arrest were bungled, primarily the chance to speak with her in the days before Garcia’s May 25 arrest.

Un-served probable cause for Charlie Adelson

Two TPD officers were sent to her Fort Lauderdale home for questioning. She was inside but didn’t answer the door, documents said. State attorney sources said they stayed roughly an hour then left.

Meggs said the documents released Thursday were working documents and should not have been made public.

TPD spokesman David Northway, however, said they were part of evidentiary discovery given to Garcia and Rivera’s defense attorney’s making them public.

“Our job is to collect the evidence,” Northway said. “It’s the job of the State Attorney’s Office to determine if the case could be tried in a court of law.”

Asked if there should have been more arrests by this point, Northway said: “That’s not up to us to determine.”

Documents reveal early Markel investigation

Meggs’ office and TPD have sparred since Garcia’s summer arrest.

TPD wanted to keep his charging documents confidential out of fear other potential defendants would flee the country. TPD’s attorney said she was not given notice Garcia's probable cause for arrest was going to be unsealed.
TPD investigators were suspicious State Attorney’s Office investigators were leaking information. Emails obtained during that time frame indicate the two offices often have disagreements on cases.

Meggs said those disagreements continue, but until police gather more substantial evidence that can be proven in court, there would likely be no more arrests in Markel's killing.

Officers can arrest Magbanua or the Adelsons without a warrant because they face felony charges, Meggs added.

“If they believe they have probable cause then they should go make the arrest. They don’t need me,” Meggs said. “I would say to Chief (Michael) DeLeo go make the arrest and get ready for your civil suit from whoever they have arrested without probable cause.'”

I have linked the articles below that are worth a read detailing the relationship between MEGGS and the TPD.

After two years of investigation into the murder-for-hire plot of Dan Markel, prosecutors are unlikely to approve the arrest of his former in-laws.
Tensions flare in Markel case after unexpected document drop

In newly released documents, the Tallahassee Police Department laid out its case for why two of Dan Markel’s in-laws should be considered prime suspects in his slaying.
Documents detail potential links to Markel's in-laws


October 6, 2016 Tennessee Democrat
“The court documents supporting her arrest, which were released by TPD on Sunday, are clear: The 31-year-old is the only apparent link between Markel and Garcia and Rivera. The trio, court documents said, "were compensated for their actions."

The 18-page probable cause affidavit, which was signed Friday, comes three weeks after State Attorney Willie Meggs said he would not approve arrests for Magbanua and Charlie Adelson. Meggs told the Tallahassee Democrat in early September there wasn't enough evidence for their arrests to hold up in court.”
Police suspect a South Florida love triangle provided the guns and money to kill Florida State law professor Dan Markel.
Reference: Police: Magbanua was 'conduit' in Markel slaying

Yeah, I amended my post. I didn’t really want to get into the social justice stuff. But I thought that whole argument at trial was cheap. It’s Miami. The ethnic dynamics are complicated. The people who did this were poor, but that wasn’t a function of their ethnicity. (As Charlie said, it’s Miami. Everyone is Hispanic.) That said, it may be the case that the Adelsons weren’t charged because they were wealthy. But that was not because of their ethnicity either. In any murder for hire, youre going to hire people who are necessarily poorer or more desperate than you, I would think. So would that always be a defense, “why are the poor people in jail and not the rich ones?” Because they killed someone, that’s why.

Wow, the stuff you posted about Meggs and the case is so interesting! There is definitely something going on that we don’t know. So many missed opportunities! Why didn’t they send someone down to interview Charlie and/or some of his associates in the days after the murder? Both Wendi and Jeff gave them that lead. Katie might have talked, who knows? They might not have told her to lawyer up right away. Charlie might not have figured they’d connect her. But after the bump, and after Garcia was arrested, of course he did.

It could have come down to Meggs being afraid or intimidated by these rich Miami people with their high powered attorneys. It is a chiefly circumstantial case, maybe he just didn’t think it would be enough.

Maybe the police just should not have released the probably cause affidavit like they did.

 

[Wishbone]

Catching up. Did Willie Meggs have some type of connection to The Adelsons? Was he pressured somehow not to prosecute them or am I just thinking down the wrong road? Was he just super conservative about what cases to take on?

If you search around you will find the Adelson's had very influential friends in the political arena. One of them even being godfather to WA for starters.

 

[Laura930]

So would that always be a defense, “why are the poor people in jail and not the rich ones?” Because they killed someone, that’s why

So agree with this!!!

 

[Laura930]

@amicuscurie Wow, the stuff you posted about Meggs and the case is so interesting! There is definitely something going on that we don’t know. So many missed opportunities! Why didn’t they send someone down to interview Charlie and/or some of his associates in the days after the murder? Both Wendi and Jeff gave them that lead. Katie might have talked, who knows? They might not have told her to lawyer up right away. Charlie might not have figured they’d connect her. But after the bump, and after Garcia was arrested, of course he did.

It could have come down to Meggs being afraid or intimidated by these rich Miami people with their high powered attorneys. It is a chiefly circumstantial case, maybe he just didn’t think it would be enough.

Maybe the police just should not have released the probably cause affidavit like they did.
_______________________________________________________________________________

First I need to learn how to do multi-quotes ….lol
Yes there are so many questions, and I think you may be on to something with “rich Miami people and high powered lawyers”. Meggs stated to the Chief of Police to go ahead and arrest the Adelson’s then get ready for the multi million dollar civil lawsuit. Perhaps he was threatened that he would be personally sued, who knows but something is really off.

 

[amicuscurie]

@amicuscurie Wow, the stuff you posted about Meggs and the case is so interesting! There is definitely something going on that we don’t know. So many missed opportunities! Why didn’t they send someone down to interview Charlie and/or some of his associates in the days after the murder? Both Wendi and Jeff gave them that lead. Katie might have talked, who knows? They might not have told her to lawyer up right away. Charlie might not have figured they’d connect her. But after the bump, and after Garcia was arrested, of course he did.

It could have come down to Meggs being afraid or intimidated by these rich Miami people with their high powered attorneys. It is a chiefly circumstantial case, maybe he just didn’t think it would be enough.

Maybe the police just should not have released the probably cause affidavit like they did.
_______________________________________________________________________________

First I need to learn how to do multi-quotes ….lol
Yes there are so many questions, and I think you may be on to something with “rich Miami people and high powered lawyers”. Meggs stated to the Chief of Police to go ahead and arrest the Adelson’s then get ready for the multi million dollar civil lawsuit. Perhaps he was threatened that he would be personally sued, who knows but something is really off.

Maybe he was up for re-election? How could he have been personally sued, that’s really difficult to do. If he’s afraid of wealthy individuals, does that mean he just never prosecutes them? The whole thing is weird.

 

[amicuscurie]

I’m starting to think I have a problem! I am completely obsessed by this case. I’m listening to Georgia’s closing again, it just never gets old. As far as Donna is concerned, I wonder whether there will even be a trial. It would have been great if all of them had been rounded up and grilled in separate rooms. Law enforcement could have bluffed telling them that the others were flipping. Get them singing like songbirds. I’m probably crazy but it’s fun to fantasize about.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. . You’re among friends here.

 

[Laura930]

Maybe he was up for re-election? How could he have been personally sued, that’s really difficult to do. If he’s afraid of wealthy individuals, does that mean he just never prosecutes them? The whole thing is weird.

It is so weird!! I think someone must have told him that the Adelson’s would sue as it seemed he was warning the TPD when he said this “If they believe they have probable cause then they should go make the arrest. They don’t need me,” Meggs said. “I would say to Chief (Michael) DeLeo go make the arrest and get ready for your civil suit from whoever they have arrested without probable cause.'”

It is just so strange!

 

[IQuestion]

 

[Gypsy Road]

Wasn’t there a judge feeding Wendi stuff about the case at one time? Could that judge have had connections to Willy Meggs? Don’t think for a minute it doesn’t happen. I used to think all officials were moral and above such shenanigans, but I have personal experience with crooked rich people and judges who do things they shouldn’t and now I KNOW favors are done.

 

[IQuestion]

DBM

 

[amicuscurie]

It is so weird!! I think someone must have told him that the Adelson’s would sue as it seemed he was warning the TPD when he said this “If they believe they have probable cause then they should go make the arrest. They don’t need me,” Meggs said. “I would say to Chief (Michael) DeLeo go make the arrest and get ready for your civil suit from whoever they have arrested without probable cause.'”

It is just so strange!

I mean, I guess you could sue for wrongful prosecution, but if they had probable cause, it’s unlikely they would succeed. I guess if they had to drop the case because it was insufficient? I’m sure it happens, but they usually don’t bring a case without sufficient cause. Plus, it’s murder, so it would have had to go to the grand jury.

 

[amicuscurie]

Wasn’t there a judge feeding Wendi stuff about the case at one time? Could that judge have had connections to Willy Meggs? Don’t think for a minute it doesn’t happen. I used to think all officials were moral and above such shenanigans, but I have personal experience with crooked rich people and judges who do things they shouldn’t and now I KNOW favors are done.

That judge was a federal judge in Miami. I am not sure how he would have had connections to a state prosecutor in Tallahassee, but I guess? I mean, if a federal judge called, Meggs would listen. But would he provide any info beyond case status? Federal and state are totally different systems. Maybe the federal judge Wendi worked for would’ve had access to FBI info, though, maybe that’s what he was looking into. At that time she probably presented to the judge she worked for as a victim of a crime, so maybe the judge was just inquiring about whether they’d made any additional progress in the investigation. Charlie and Donna weren’t charged yet. Is this on one of the phone calls during the bump? Maybe the judge wouldn’t have known just how much suspicion was on the family at that time. Anyway, this is Donna talking about how Wendi said the judge was looking into it, if I recall correctly. I wouldn’t believe either of them necessarily. JMO.

 

[jennyjenny]

The first step is admitting you have a problem. . You’re among friends here.

Working on a project and over the last 2 days have replayed all of WA testimonies and police interview.
My family is like ... Mom, stop getting so triggered - you already know she lying!!