FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #16

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Seattle1 said:
^^rsbm

Actually, I think it follows that KM could have legitimately discussed needing health insurance for her kids prior to the July 2014 murder date, i.e., the need was independent of the murder, essentially due to provisions in *Obamacare* that first became effective Jan 1, 2014.

IMO, KM, a born scammer, was already struggling with the latest bureaucracy for Medicaid eligibility, and probably did not see herself steadily employed after July 18, 2014 (due to pending windfall and the possibility of living on the run if not looking over her shoulder), and by taking care of setting up that paystub for herself, she could check that burden for her kids off of her list. For purposes of discussion, seemed to me KM's scam worked perfectly for two years.

ETA: More recently, it was clarified that KM's children were never insured by ADI's health plan but by Florida Medicaid.

**While many of the ACA's major regulatory provisions were established or introduced earlier, January 1, 2014 marked the official starting point for most of them. In many states, Medicaid eligibility was revised and expanded to include those earning up to 138% of the federal poverty level – childless adults included.

ACA in 2014
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I commented on this a few days ago. She may have wanted the income to qualify for an Obamacare policy with a large subsidy (ie, ~90%), NOT Medicaid. If she she had just enough income to qualify for Obamacare, she would have been able to get a silver-level policy from a private insurance company with the maximum subsidy for her family size. If she didn't meet the income minimum she would have been forced to apply for Medicaid with less MD, hospital, specialist, etc. choice and more paperwork and red tape.
 
GoJacks said:
I just finished her cross - really don't think it was as bad as people are making it out to be? There were a few things I wish she had rehashed but overall I think it was fine.

We need to take into consideration that Charlie (and Wendi) are two individuals that are clearly above average intelligence that have had YEARS to memorize and rehearse their stories. Neither one is going to get super rattled or bothered on cross because of this.

I just don't see a world where the other prosecutor does any better. Think Georgia was the right choice for cross.

Jmo
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I disagree that Charlie is particularly intelligent. When they handed him the indictment to read, he seemed to be having trouble. I do think he is difficult to pin down. There were times when he said things that she should’ve followed up on, but she was too quick to move on to the next question. JMO.
 
Evidence question- it came out at trial that there is a text from Wendi on June 6 or thereabouts during Harvey’s bday weekend in which she asks Dan if he will be in town July 18. But LaCasse testified that she cancelled a trip with him on June 4, because she had to be home July 18. He testified that she seemed nervous. This was the weekend of the first attempt, according to Luis. Why did she cancel the trip with LaCasse during the first attempt? Was it already unsuccessful when she did that, and then she later texted Dan? The timing of this doesn’t fit for me. It would make more sense if she cancelled the trip after the first attempt, closer in time to when she texted Dan. I’m sure I’m missing something with the dates.
 
amicuscurie said:
I disagree that Charlie is particularly intelligent. When they handed him the indictment to read, he seemed to be having trouble. I do think he is difficult to pin down. There were times when he said things that she should’ve followed up on, but she was too quick to move on to the next question. JMO.
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Agreed - I don't think Nova Southeastern dental school is hard to get into.
 
amicuscurie said:
I disagree that Charlie is particularly intelligent. When they handed him the indictment to read, he seemed to be having trouble. I do think he is difficult to pin down. There were times when he said things that she should’ve followed up on, but she was too quick to move on to the next question. JMO.
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You don’t think someone that has passed dental school + 3 extra years for his specialization isn’t intelligent to some degree? huh.

In any world, even if that is the case - you know what he would have to be good at. Memorization. Do you understand how much anatomy any type of doctor must memorize/know?

Like I said, there were def some things she should have rehashed after he said them but I’m not sure how much it helps when he’s clearly got this stupid story down to a T.
 
Orange Tabby said:
The Rules of Extortion
By Charlie Adelson​

Extortionists wear Abe Lincoln beards. Except when they don’t.

When you first learn that you are being extorted, be sure to have a sweet cuddle with the messenger sent by the extortionists.

Extort me once: Sure, I’ll pay.
Extort me twice: Cops! No way!

If you are betting your Mom’s life on the outcome of a phone call, best practice is to have such a call made by a person who is a conduit to your current extortionists.

When being extorted (or when you are involved in any crime), ensure you use a code which can never be identified as code, and compose messages so that the true meaning can’t be guessed by outsiders. Example of excellent code: You never know when the TV will break, but if I absolutely had to wager a birthday present, I’d say this Saturday at noon. Model No. 1/3-M-US$. Payment plans available, see stapled attachments. Burn after reading.

If you believe law enforcement is wiretapping you, make sure to ostentatiously refer to them by some nickname they like, such as pot-belly pig. They will lose interest immediately and leave you alone.

And for goodness’ sake, know the difference between extortion and blackmail. It will impress your lawyers as well as the convicts with whom you may soon be sharing long-term accommodation.
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When you plan on killing your sister's husband, make sure you tell "jokes" about it to everyone you know. These jokes can include, "Dan is so stupid, I wish he'd die oooops I'm juuuust jokin", "Dan better accept our million dollars or he's toast lol jk", or Charlie's personal favorite, "buying a TV is cheaper than buying you a hitman!" - except you must proceed to purchase both the TV (yes, you must buy your lawyer sister who's making 6 figures a TV bc mama donna said so) AND a hitman. maybe then your family will see you as big tough protector guy... and finally respect you... or whatever! so ridiculous lol. i feel like CA felt like the family f-up in some sort of way and was in some position of being his mom's do-boy. yes i realize that's a romantic term but this family screams emotional incest.

Blue Shakehead said:
Im a Georgia fan, but was not at all a fan of her cross. Sure, she had a slippery witness but his whole story is concocted nonsense. Hope she comes with the goods at closing arguments.
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i agree, frankly i was surprised at how unconvincing & inefficient her cross examination was
 
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GoJacks said:
You don’t think someone that has passed dental school + 3 extra years for his specialization isn’t intelligent to some degree? huh.

In any world, even if that is the case - you know what he would have to be good at. Memorization. Do you understand how much anatomy any type of doctor must memorize/know?

Like I said, there were def some things she should have rehashed after he said them but I’m not sure how much it helps when he’s clearly got this stupid story down to a T.
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Of course, dentists are intelligent! But I think I remember there’s some evidence that he didn’t do too well in dental school, and Harvey had to pull strings to get them to pass him. There’s a lot of chatter on the tapes about disgruntled patients.
 
amicuscurie said:
I disagree that Charlie is particularly intelligent. When they handed him the indictment to read, he seemed to be having trouble. I do think he is difficult to pin down. There were times when he said things that she should’ve followed up on, but she was too quick to move on to the next question. JMO.
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Yeah I don’t find Charlie or Wendi all that smart. Clearly, Danny didn’t think so about Wendi either. That was a major part of the rift between them - she felt inferior.

What makes them difficult witnesses is their ability to lie so easily. That’s why it’s important to force them to Yes or No answers. And I agree, following up is key! GC was too focused on her questions and less so on the answers. Like Tim Jansen said, make it a conversation. JMO
 
NeverPersonal said:
i agree, frankly i was surprised at how unconvincing & inefficient her cross examination was
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So if you thought her cross was unconvincing, did you find CA’s story convincing?

Because I found his bizarre story so far fetched and made absolutely zero sense when you actually think about it (the Latin kings accepting a payment plan, HUH???).

What was there for her to convince us of? I thought the less is more approach was best. Honestly think his own lawyer should have kept it to about 2-3hrs instead of having something for every little detail. By the end of the day ….way too much.

I don’t know. I watch way too many trials and I wouldn’t say hers was bad. Not great, by any means. But not bad.
 
Seattle1 said:

11:41: Questioning resumes​

Charlie says he’s only just now telling people what really happened because if he doesn’t, he’s going to spend the rest of his life in prison for something he didn’t do.

Rashbaum says within 12 hours of Magbanua telling Charlie to lose her number, Charlie is offering her help with her car. Charlie says that’s because he needed Magbanua’s help to protect him.

Charlie reiterates that in 2014, he didn’t believe Magbanua was extorting him. It wasn’t until 2019, during Magbanua’s trial, Charlie says, that he realized Magbanua was behind the extortion.

“Their theory is wrong about your sister.”

“Correct.”

“Just like it’s wrong about you.”

“100%”

“Every month when I paid, I felt like they weren’t going to kill me, because if they killed me, they wouldn’t get the money next month,” Charlie says.

11:09: Taking a break​

Cappleman has finished her redirect examination of Charlie. Court is taking a 10 minute break and will reconvene at 11:20.

11:07: A sense of relief​

“Do your nephews deserve to know the whole truth about who killed their father?”

“Yeah, now they do.”

Cappleman asks if Charlie feels bad that he didn’t tell Markel’s parents that he knew about what happened to their son. Charlie says he feels a sense of relief that he’s finally able to tell everyone what happened.

11:05:​

“Do you think you can talk your way out of this?”

“Who are they gonna believe, right? An oral surgeon or a gangster.”

“You’re untouchable, right?””No, I’m not part of this murder.

Charlie says he’s gone to the police in reference to something with his child’s mother. In 2018, he reported an aggravated assault where a car almost hit him.

11:01:​

“If you don’t pay the extortionist, you could get killed,” Charlie says.

On the Dolce Vita tape, Charlie expresses his concern to Magbanua that if they pay, the extortionist might keep coming back for more.

Charlie says he was relieved when he came to the conclusion that the person from the bump was law enforcement. Six months later, Magbanua was arrested. After that, Charlie starts to exhibit “extreme behavior changes.” Cappleman asks what his explanation for that is.

“Because I thought I’d be falsely arrested.”

Charlie says he encouraged Magbanua to reconcile with Garcia.

10:58:​

Charlie says Cappleman is putting words in his mouth.

10:55:​

Cappleman reads him a portion of a transcript of a conversation between Charlie and Magbanua.

“I think you’re reading it wrong,” Charlie says.

When Dan Markel’s murder was taking too long to happen, didn’t you tell Katherine Magbanua you would find someone else to do it?

No, I never said that.

10:52:​

Cappleman plays a portion of the Dolce Vita recording.

10:45: “Coincidences happen.”​

“There’s a couple of coincidences in this case,” Charlie says. “Coincidences happen.”

Cappleman asks Charlie about his statement on the Dolce Vita recording where he says “If they had any evidence, we’d have already gone to the airport.”

“Does an innocent person say ‘If they had any evidence?’” Cappleman asks. “Isn’t it true, doctor, that they weren’t going to have any evidence because you were careful?””I was sure they weren’t going to have evidence to show I did something I didn’t do.”

On the Dolce Vita tape, Cappleman asks, “Why are you thinking through the possibility of the blackmailer going to the cops if the blackmailer doesn’t have any dirt on you to take to the cops?”

10:41:​

Cappleman points out that no one from his family has been killed yet. Charlie says he’s concerned. “But not concerned enough to remain silent when it’s your own bottom on the line, right?”

Cappleman questions why he told Donna about the extortion, and why he didn’t just tell her that he was helping out Magbanua, to avoid stressing Donna out.

Charlie says on the wire taps, he and his mom were talking carefully.

“Isn’t carefully the same thing as code?” Cappleman asks.


10:33:​

“Can we agree the timing of these texts is consistent with being sent the day after the killers got home from their failed murder trip?”

“Why didn’t you go to Dan’s funeral?””In Canada?”

Cappleman says there were services in Canada and Tallahassee.

“I knew what had happened to him and there’s no way I could have shown up,” Charlie says.

“I wasn’t close to him, but either way I felt horrible about what happened.”

“Do you regret that Dan Markel suffered for 14 hours before he died?”

“I feel horrible.”

“He was supposed to die quickly, instantly, right?”

In one text, Magbanua tells Charlie “Next time don’t be such a dick to someone who has done something for you.”

Harvey’s 70th birthday happened between the first two murder attempts.

Cappleman asks Charlie why Donna asked him to erase a text she sent. He says it was probably because she didn’t want Harvey to see that text, which Charlie says relates to Harvey’s birthday present.

Charlie texted Donna at one point that he’s still working on dad’s birthday present, and Donna texts him back saying she knows he’ll come through for her.

10:17: Money matters​

Cappleman asks about Wendi’s financial benefits after Markel’s death. “She got $2.7 million in benefits for her children plus $4,800 a month for the boys?”

“No,” Charlie says. He says that money doesn’t go to Wendi -- it’s intended for the boys.

Cappleman asks if Charlie had trouble sleeping after the murder. Charlie says yes, after he was extorted he did have trouble sleeping.


Cappleman asks Charlie whether him telling his mom that he’s already gone above and beyond for Wendi was a reference to him killing Dan Markel on his behalf. He denies this.

​


10:00: ‘Am I going to get killed, am I going to get arrested?’​


“Wasn’t this divorce a big deal in your family?” ”It didn’t affect my life, I can tell you that.”

“Why did Wendi testify that she was getting along well with Dan Markel prior to his death? Can we agree that’s not true?”

“Is it part of your defense to minimize how nasty and contentious this divorce was?”

“My defense is to tell the truth.”

“Isn’t it true that you don’t feel Wendi appreciates everything you and Donna do for her?” ”I wake up wondering ‘Am I going to get killed, am I going to get arrested?’ She knows none of it … I had somewhat of an innate anger.”

“Could you trust Wendi with a secret that could ruin your life?” ”It’s not a secret. It’s something that would get me killed. So I didn’t want to tell anyone.”

“It’s not a coincidence she went to the crime scene.”

“She never went to the crime scene.”

9:55: Phone call played​

Cappleman is playing a call between Charlie and Donna. Charlie tells Donna that if Wendi wants to be tight-lipped about her life, Donna doesn’t need to press her for information, because he can find out everything from ___


“Did you ever hear Donna Adelson refer to Dan Markel as stupid?”

“No.”

9:47: Family relationships​


Cappleman points out that after Markel’s murder, Charlie’s parents spent a lot of time with Wendi’s kids.

“Does your mom have a favorite child?”

“I don’t think she likes my older brother.”

“Is Wendi the favorite?”

“I like to think it’s a tie.”

Cappleman asks Charlie whether Donna was pretty worried about Wendi’s marital problems, and Charlie says no.

Did your mother hate Dan Markel?

No … she only disliked him when he was being mean to my sister.

When your mom is worried about Wendi, does she come to you for solutions?

No, I don’t think worried is the right word to describe it.

Charlie said if Wendi had bought a house in Tallahassee, that would have been the second worst decision of her life.

The first worst decision was “when she agreed to marry Dan,” Charlie says.

Were you a spy when it came to Wendi? Did you get information from Wendi and relay it to Donna?

At times.


9:45: “It was a lot of money.”​

“You have to explain away those texts, don’t you doctor?”

“Most people don’t send kissy faces to people that are extorting money out of them.”


9:30: “I want to talk about the cameras.”​


“Did you hire a bodyguard?”

“No, I carried a gun on me.”

“Do you recall a statement you made on the Dolce Vita recording that said you were gonna start carrying a gun?”

Charlie says he hadn’t carried a gun in a while because it was uncomfortable. He says he carried a gun for about 4-6 months after the murder and then stopped.

Charlie says he never came up with the remaining money of the full $1 million that the extortionists demanded. He just continued paying the $3,000 a month.

“Weren’t you afraid that if you broke up with her she would sic the Latin Kings on you?”

Charlie says no, and that he had every intention of continuing to pay every month

Charlie received a text from Magbanua saying she didn’t want anything from him and telling him to erase her number.

“Why is she telling you to erase her number and leave her alone?”

“Because I broke up with her.”

Later, their relationship seems to have improved based on their text messages. Charlie told Magbanua he’s lucky to have her in his life.

“I cared a lot about Katie,” Charlie says.

Charlie says initially after the extortion, Charlie was cold toward Magbanua and limited contact with her, but over time, as he became more certain she wasn’t involved, they became closer.


Charlie denies offering to pay for Magbanua’s attorney fees.

“I cleaned out all the money in my safe and handed it to her.”

“Why did you do that?”

“Because I was being extorted for a third of a million dollars.”

Cappleman points out that he had conversations for days about the bump, whether to pay the money, who might be extorting him, but when Magbanua came to him, he gave her the money immediately without asking many questions.

“Is that the way it’s done? Do extortionists send a girlfriend of their victim to collect their extortion money? Is that the way it’s done?” Cappleman asks.

“This woman, this extortionist, was going to do you a solid by negotiating for you to get on a payment plan,” Cappleman said. “Did she put you on a payment plan?”

“Yes. She said since I didn’t have the money, she asked me if I could pay $3,000 a month.”

“You didn’t want to talk to the guy yourself?”


Cappleman says after the murder, since Wendi is going with her parents to South Florida, she’s moving much closer to the killers.

“There’s a reason to fear for her safety,” Cappleman says. “You let her move from Tallahassee to Miami where you knew the killers were located.”

When Wendi first moved to South Florida, Charlie says she moved in with their parents.

9:00: “I’m relieved that it’s the police”​

On their phone calls, Donna references “patients” and “dental models.” Charlie says he had lectured his mom on being very careful when she talked.

“She went overboard on some things,” Charlie says.

After hearing the recording of Donna and the undercover agent’s call, Charlie says he felt relieved, believing the person was police and not a gang member.

“I felt so much better,” he says. “I wasn’t happy that the police thought we did a murder, but I was very happy to know that it wasn’t the Latin Kings extorting my family again.”


8:50: “I would have been killed.”​

On the phone call between Donna and the undercover agent, Donna tells him if he has information, to go to the police and collect the reward.

“Why didn’t you go to the police and collect your reward?” Rashbaum asks.

“I would have been killed,” Charlie replies.

To stay up to date on all the latest news as it develops, follow WCTV on Facebook and X (Twitter).
@Niner
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BBM - If he played this up it could've worked well for his defense. "Katie left me because I didn't want to keep paying her" etc.

Edited this down to the most interesting parts IMO. Saying his mom doesn't like his older brother is fascinating to me, along with the dynamics of his weirdddd relationship with his sister. They feel a little too... close... to me lol

also it's blood chilling that charlie said he was "still working on dad's birthday present" IN BETWEEN THE TWO TALLAHASSEE TRIPS!! and Donna says, "I know you'll come through for us!" or whatever. Glaring red flag.

amicuscurie said:
I disagree that Charlie is particularly intelligent. When they handed him the indictment to read, he seemed to be having trouble. I do think he is difficult to pin down. There were times when he said things that she should’ve followed up on, but she was too quick to move on to the next question. JMO.
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you can be intelligent and not a fast reader...? he comes across as intelligent to me. wendi, less so.
 
GoJacks said:
So if you thought her cross was unconvincing, did you find CA’s story convincing?

Because I found his bizarre story so far fetched and made absolutely zero sense when you actually think about it (the Latin kings accepting a payment plan, HUH???).

What was there for her to convince us of? I thought the less is more approach was best. Honestly think his own lawyer should have kept it to about 2-3hrs instead of having something for every little detail. By the end of the day ….way too much.

I don’t know. I watch way too many trials and I wouldn’t say hers was bad. Not great, by any means. But not bad.
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I agree with this. I think the story speaks for itself, and what it says is, “guilty.” (My opinion). Even if all the puzzle pieces fit, the puzzle is a big picture saying 2+2=5. I think the jury needs to look at the story itself and not focus on whether each individual piece of evidence fits Charlie’s theory. The theory itself is impossible to believe. Plus, to me he seemed like he was lying. It doesn’t really matter how many questions he was asked or if there was follow up, because the answers he did give made no sense. I did like the Occam’s razor reference. I thought the cross was good at the beginning but got bogged down toward the end. A few times Georgia had her head in her hands trying to figure out what he was saying.
 
Weki said:
Yeah I don’t find Charlie or Wendi all that smart. Clearly, Danny didn’t think so about Wendi either. That was a major part of the rift between them - she felt inferior.

What makes them difficult witnesses is their ability to lie so easily. That’s why it’s important to force them to Yes or No answers. And I agree, following up is key! GC was too focused on her questions and less so on the answers. Like Tim Jansen said, make it a conversation. JMO
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Wendi, miss valedictorian and went to law school, full academic scholarship. Graduated magna cu m laude if i remember correctly…. Isn’t…smart?

You guys know you don’t have to like someone to admit they’re above average intelligence?
 
GoJacks said:
So if you thought her cross was unconvincing, did you find CA’s story convincing?

Because I found his bizarre story so far fetched and made absolutely zero sense when you actually think about it (the Latin kings accepting a payment plan, HUH???).

What was there for her to convince us of? I thought the less is more approach was best. Honestly think his own lawyer should have kept it to about 2-3hrs instead of having something for every little detail. By the end of the day ….way too much.

I don’t know. I watch way too many trials and I wouldn’t say hers was bad. Not great, by any means. But not bad.
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Did you watch Sara Duggan’s cross of Katie at her 2nd trial? A good cross keeps the witness in a corner and doesn’t allow him/her to slide out! JMO

This doesn’t mean I think Charlie was convincing.
 
GoJacks said:
You don’t think someone that has passed dental school + 3 extra years for his specialization isn’t intelligent to some degree? huh.

In any world, even if that is the case - you know what he would have to be good at. Memorization. Do you understand how much anatomy any type of doctor must memorize/know?

Like I said, there were def some things she should have rehashed after he said them but I’m not sure how much it helps when he’s clearly got this stupid story down to a T.
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I agree. Dentistry is hard stuff, you couldn't pay me to go to school for that.
 
GoJacks said:
Wendi, miss valedictorian and went to law school, full academic scholarship. Graduated magna cu m laude if i remember correctly…. Isn’t…smart?

You guys know you don’t have to like someone to admit they’re above average intelligence?
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I think she is book smart but lacks common sense/potentially some street smarts. That's the impression I get.
 
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