FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[cottonweaver]

Defense Exhibits list again

Item 14. Donna Adelson 2014 Appointment Book

1. what's the point of that? ( I just can't imagine there's anything there which is inculpatory for DA/HA)
2. Does anybody recall that being on any previous exhibits lists for CA or KM trials?

 

[cottonweaver]

Another post re the new motions - motion to move to the smaller court room

Is anybody surprised that the observations of That Alternate are included? ( The juror who called the Defense and made allegations against other jurors? The juror also comes up in jail calls DA-CA on 6 Nov because they're hoping that the Alt's complaints might form basis for a mistrial)

We've been told - by various court watchers during the course of CA's trial - that the jurors at Tally don't get a lunch delivered & that they become accessible to the public at points during the day.

Call me paranoid but I'd very careful this time around. Public spaces. Lurking, hanging around...

 

[amicuscurie]

Defense Exhibits list again

Item 14. Donna Adelson 2014 Appointment Book

1. what's the point of that? ( I just can't imagine there's anything there which is inculpatory for DA/HA)
2. Does anybody recall that being on any previous exhibits lists for CA or KM trials?

My opinion is that it will be used to show all the entries that are NOT about murder.

 

[amicuscurie]

So it was a 2 bedroom H and D leased first in the Continuim. Then they leased a 3 bedroom 4 months later.
We will just have to wait it out on the other subject here. Ijust was not able to get on all day and post this to you.
So Charlie was right.
They started with a 2 bedroom they shared for a few months until H and D got a larger place.
That’s what I thought-but you had said it was a 3 bedroom they had first.

I’m sorry, but something is not adding up for me.

I recall seeing a lease dated May 2014, signed by Harvey for 13K a month.

Now I’ve just seen another one, signed by Harvey only months later, also for 13K a month.

A 2BR and a 3BR in the same building do not generally rent for the same amount per month, in my experience.

Neither lease that I have seen displays a unit number.

Sometimes people renew leases.

I could be incorrect on the amount that I saw on the first lease, but I don’t believe I am.

 

[cottonweaver]

My opinion is that it will be used to show all the entries that are NOT about murder.

That sounds really exciting.

Like the custodians ( AT& T, Sunpass) testifying ' no we don't hold records for a decade' ( Defense witness list)

 

[Zedzded]

- In the past we've discussed the implications of the State ever calling RA to testify against any family member. The sensitivities and issues around the kids & the hopes re future relationships. Building bridges etc. I won't expand on that because there's no point with so many questions unanswered

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd imagine once DA,WA and HA are all locked up, the Markel boys will remain alienated from Rob Adelson and if they do see their parternal Grandparents, it will be strained.

 

[cottonweaver]

Motion to dismiss

Reading through the Motion to dismiss, it seems more competent than something Rashbaum could have managed on his own.

Maybe I'm being unfair on Rash but nevertheless I hope that Defense don't succeed in using all of this as a basis to get Corbett's demonstratives booted. ( Inadmissible. demonstratives . Corbett's slides of call sequences/patterns )

Page 7

 

[cottonweaver]

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd imagine once DA,WA and HA are all locked up, the Markel boys will remain alienated from Rob Adelson and if they do see their parternal Grandparents, it will be strained.

and some moves certainly could help reinforce that.

ofc I might be totally off base re my post but I just couldn't help thinking of estrangement between cousins going into the future. I was thinking about their generation & future reconciliations.

Did you hear either of Ruth or Phil's last interviews?

 

[Knitpicker]

I’m sorry, but something is not adding up for me.

I recall seeing a lease dated May 2014, signed by Harvey for 13K a month.

Now I’ve just seen another one, signed by Harvey only months later, also for 13K a month.

A 2BR and a 3BR in the same building do not generally rent for the same amount per month, in my experience.

Neither lease that I have seen displays a unit number.

Sometimes people renew leases.

I could be incorrect on the amount that I saw on the first lease, but I don’t believe I am.

May 2014 2 BR -lease
September 2014 3 Br lease. 13K/mo.

The leases are both only 4 months (the 3 Bedroom was signed 8/1 for 9/1 start ) apart, so how could it be a renewed lease?

In the past, it’s been said that the 2 BR was 12K a month.
So they were paying 2 leasing simultaneously.
Perhaps they were able to get out of the 2 bedroom or broke the lease and paid the penalty?
And thats when they all moved in together into the 3 Bedroom?
The point is that Charlie may have been telling the truth at trial.

 

[Knitpicker]

From what I recall by LR, while KM and CA are dating off and on, baby daddy SG and his gang member friend LR are out drinking and drugging and SG confides in LR that wifey is moving on and he's devastated. Together they drive to the home SG once shared with KM and their kids only to see CA and KM leaving with a trailered jet ski and SG goes ape and attempts to block them in with the vehicle he's driving. This incident happened about a month before the murder of Dan. MOO

ETA: I think the topic surfaced over questions as to whether or not one believes SG knew the hit for KM was hired by CA, her hook up, and whether CA knew KM hired her baby daddy to do the hit.

I don’t think that is right.
I think you are confusing when SG and LR drove to the Yardbird and sat parked watching the 4 eating, with the jetski incident.

With the jetski incident, supposedly SG was eating pizza with his kids when he saw KM and CA driving out of the parking lot of her building. Which is impossible since the pizza place is way across the street in a shopping center.
By KM’s account at trial you’d think he was eating outside right across the street and saw the jetski.

 

[Knitpicker]

It does surprise me, coming from the Defense

Pure speculation and would love to hear what everybody else thinks of these questions & suggestions:

- As far as I call, for the previous case against Charlie, Rashbaum didn't list anything from Rob on the exhibits list ( and didn't list him on their witness list)
- Because the state had RA on every previous witness list - but never called him- this increases the chances of State being forced to have Rob actually testify. (Depending on the contents of that email/s they want to use?)

- If any Defense lists an item, do they have to actually use that item at trial or not compulsory? ( Just tactics?)
- However the Defense have not listed him as one of their witnesses. Huh? Don't hearsay rules mean that they'd have to list him & have him called to the stand to get the emails in?

- It just feels as if Donna wants to drag her eldest son into this big-publicity trial. ( compare previous post about Mintz)
- In the past we've discussed the implications of the State ever calling RA to testify against any family member. The sensitivities and issues around the kids & the hopes re future relationships. Building bridges etc. I won't expand on that because there's no point with so many questions unanswered

What is curious is GC asking Wendi if KM was at HA’s party. She said something like “I don’t think so”…pls don’t hold me to that lol) Then she basically goes through the other girlfriends…June, Whitney,..asks if any of them are at the party. Wendi said something like “I don’t remember seeing them there” (not exact words)
When W uses that answer, its suspicious.

So perhaps Robert can answer that.
If he says KM was there, Wendi can always say “I didn’t remember”.
Perhaps he had some conversation with KM if she was there.
That was the last time he was with his family, as he started asking Q’s after the murder and then the door was closed.

 

[amicuscurie]

May 2014 2 BR -lease
September 2014 3 Br lease. 13K/mo.

The leases are both only 4 months (the 3 Bedroom was signed 8/1 for 9/1 start ) apart, so how could it be a renewed lease?

In the past, it’s been said that the 2 BR was 12K a month.
So they were paying 2 leasing simultaneously.
Perhaps they were able to get out of the 2 bedroom or broke the lease and paid the penalty?
And thats when they all moved in together into the 3 Bedroom?
The point is that Charlie may have been telling the truth at trial.

Im not sure what the miscommunication is here.

BOTH leases I remember seeing were for 13k/month, I remember seeing that both were signed by Harvey, one in May and one in August.

A 2BR and a 3BR are not the same price per month. The two leases I remember seeing were the same price per month.

Again, this is just what I remember seeing. I have also heard that they first rented a 2BR and then a 3BR.

But the only evidence I’ve seen for that is

1. a May lease document with the apartment number redacted but showing 13k/month,
and
2. a later August lease document with the apartment number redacted by also showing 13k/month.

I will reserve judgment until we see what is shown at trial.

 

[Seattle1]

I don’t think that is right.
I think you are confusing when SG and LR drove to the Yardbird and sat parked watching the 4 eating, with the jetski incident.

With the jetski incident, supposedly SG was eating pizza with his kids when he saw KM and CA driving out of the parking lot of her building. Which is impossible since the pizza place is way across the street in a shopping center.
By KM’s account at trial you’d think he was eating outside right across the street and saw the jetski.

Thanks @Knitpicker -- I could very well be wrong. However it happened, I don't think the topic relevant to the Dan's murder or Donna's trial. It sounds like maybe it was relevant to KM's trial.

 

[Knitpicker]

Thanks @Knitpicker -- I could very well be wrong. However it happened, I don't think the topic relevant to the Dan's murder or Donna's trial. It sounds like maybe it was relevant to KM's trial.

It could be relevant to Harveys trial. But that mention seems to greatly upset some folks here.
I have tried to understand why a family would concoct such a ridiculous story to account for that call to Harvey.
It’s what I came up with-can’t be proven obviously.
Listen to KM talk about it at trial.
SG was blocking the road! He was yelling and screaming!! (Months after he already knew she was with Charlie.
Like Superman, he tries to block them leaving the parking lot!
‘It’s a bird, it’s a plane, it’s Superman!”

She knows he's cursing at them, yet the windows are up and KM can’t say what he’s saying.
Where are the 2 small kids?
And how did he ever see a car making its way out of a parking lot, while eating at a pizza place in a shopping center so far away?
AND, he had his car! How does that work?

Yes, I found the pizza place. And it’s nestled in a shopping center.

You’d think he was on a NY street pizza place, eating outside and actually saw the jetski ABOUT to pass by exactly where he was sitting.

Think about it…see what you can come up with. If I am wrong, I am wrong. But at least I’m thinking about it…

 

[Knitpicker]

No, I apologize for the confusion, I did not see a July lease.

I’ve seen no lease except the one from May that Harvey signed for a place in Continuum (with unit number redacted) for 13k a month.

I did see on Zillow that the 3BR townhouse (the same one W listed in her application for work on the Tally house, per Patty’s video), was listed for rent for 13K in July, 2014. But- I saw another real estate website that said it was listed for rent for 13k IN MAY.

These websites vary in accuracy, I think only official MLS listings are really accurate as to when something was listed for rent, and I don’t have access to those.

IF the 3BR townhouse (the one W listed on her application for work on the Tally house) was listed for rent for 13k in MAY, that would certainly be interesting to me. If I recall correctly, Harvey signed a lease for a condo for 13k a month at the same address, IN MAY.

I have seen, to date, no evidence of anyone in the family renting a SECOND unit in Continuum. The only evidence for that is Charlie’s testimony.

From what I understand, H and D moved into a 2BR in Icon sometime in 2015, and W moved to her 2BR in the Courts in 2015. From what I understand, H and D sold the CS house in 2015.

H and D are living in the Icon during the bump, and Harvey is committing to CS several days a week.

Donna in 2016 on a bump call with Charlie, discusses possibly moving to another unit in Icon that is for rent, I don’t know whether that happened.

Ok I was responding to this.
“I have seen no evidence of anyone in the family renting a SECOND unit in Continuum.”

There were 2. One May, one September.

I do believe you only mentioned a 3 bedroom rented in Continuum.
But I’m not here to prove you wrong.
I really can’t wait for the last Adelson to be put away and move on…

 

[Knitpicker]

It’s just not believable to me that in this whole alleged plot, in which we have ample evidence of a chain of communication between Donna, Charlie, Katie, and Sigfredo, and testimony from Katie and Rivera that Sigfredo didn’t know who he was doing the job for, that there was one single random direct phone call from Sig to Harvey about any of it. Rivera said that Sig knew Katie was dating “a dentist.” We don’t know if he ever knew his name. For me, it’s much more likely that Sig didn’t know Charlie was paying him, most likely didn’t know that Charlie had a father named Harvey, and accidentally called the wrong number after he looked for a dentist (or even an Adelson dentist) in Katie’s phone. Unfortunately for him, this one call, cross-referenced with the tower dump at the gym, led the police to connect someone whose phone was pinging at the gym on the day of the murder with someone in the Adelson family. It is very difficult to commit the perfect crime.

Luis said that they referred to him as “the dentist”, just like they referred to Wendi as “The lady” yet Luis knew Wendi’s name.
They both saw Wendi and knew what she looked like because they were sitting in a car watching the 4 having dinner at Yardbird.
Same goes for SG (and LR) knowing what Charlie looked like.

The day July 1 was a Tuesday and it seems unlikely that CA took a day off from his busy periodontal practice to go jet skiing with Katie. Also, that SG and KM took the day off from work as well.
Yes, there was a cross reference with the tower at the gym.
I have been trying to find that and haven’t had the energy to look for it.

How do you suppose Sigfredo knew all about the planned jetski date? It seems as per Katie he was shocked/surprised. How did he know Charlies car that was hauling it, to be able to block the road-especially eating pizza with the kids?