FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #24

[Knitpicker]

But this is the gift of the manipulations of W.A.. It would be at the top of Jane's mind because we know that, although supposedly WA had laryngitis and couldn't speak to DM, yet she went on a walk with Jane early that week to supposedly discuss how torn she was about what to do about Jeff. She filled Jane's head with all the talk of how incredibly jealous and accusatory he was, making him seem irrational.

Of course, we know that she spent the entire nine months of their relationship, as he said, bemoaning every day how awful Danny was to her and how she couldn't believe she got stuck in Tallahassee because of him. We also know from what we have heard from multiple ways that she did give him reason to be jealous and she was pushing his buttons and seeing other men. Staging IMO that scene in a coffee place she knew he went to so he could react the way she wound him up to react in a public setting with witnesses. She wound Jane up, and, like so much to do with WA, it was no coincidence that she had LE call Jane to come to the station. All planned IMO.

She is straight out of the movies like Body Heat. Wicked smart. Puppeteer. IMO. We have seen that play out in real life in how many cases through the years.

Yes early on in this case I compared her to the Body Heat character.

It’s important to note that Wendi had already established in her mind that Jeffrey would have put up with anything she threw at him. As in Body heat, she used her body to trap him. Even an attorney in that movie. She already knew his weakness in that case he had… she (Wendi),used that to seduce and use him. He was an empath and he wanted kids. Perfect for her schemes. She is able to read people well- that is definitely a “gift” she has.

Not to judge Jeffrey for that because as women, we don’t or will never understand how men (and I guess women-but more rare), can give up all, ruin marriages, ruin their relationships with their children… even murder (think Chris Watts) for a woman they are attached to physically. I know many women whose lives were destroyed by someone who was able to seduce their husbands. It’s very sad.

Once she knew she had Jeffrey ( not many men would endure as long as he did with a woman doing what she did to him to hurt him), and he was already emotionally attached to the boys, there was no way out for him. A deep attachment as he himself admitted,

 

[Missyrocks5]

Yes early on in this case I compared her to the Body Heat character.

It’s important to note that Wendi had already established in her mind that Jeffrey would have put up with anything she threw at him. As in Body heat, she used her body to trap him. Even an attorney in that movie. She already knew his weakness in that case he had… she used that to seduce and use him. He was an empath and he wanted kids. Perfect for her schemes. She is able to read people well- that is definitely a “gift” she has.

Not to judge Jeffrey for that because as women, we don’t or will never understand how men can give up all, ruin marriages, ruin their relationships with their children… even murder (think Chris Watts) for a woman they are attached to physically. I know many women whose lives were destroyed by someone who was able to seduce their husbands. It’s very sad.

Once she knew she had Jeffrey ( not many men would endure as long as he did with a woman doing what she did to him to hurt him), and he was already emotionally attached to the boys, there was no way out for him.

Yup. Also, playing the perpetual victim to make men feel protective of her. She probably learned the dynamic in her own home. Remember, JL said there were other men at work who also were falling all over themselves for her & Harvey and Charlie. She was the baby of the family.

I remember one of YouTuber remarked, many months ago, she was relentless. I immediately knew she meant Hurt's character describing Mattie W in Body Heat. And I remember thinking, that is exactly what I thought with the more facts that I learned about in this case years ago. Another good movie with that is To Die For. Nicole Kidman is absolutely spectacular in that. Based on the Pamela Smart case, an easier mark because the boys were teenagers, but same idea.

 

[Knitpicker]

Yup. Also, playing the perpetual victim to make men feel protective of her. She probably learned the dynamic in her own home. Remember, JL said there were other men at work who also were falling all over themselves for her & Harvey and Charlie. She was the baby of the family.

I remember one of YouTuber remarked, many months ago, she was relentless. I immediately knew she meant Hurt's character describing Mattie W in Body Heat. And I remember thinking, that is exactly what I thought with the more facts that I learned about in this case years ago. Another good movie with that is To Die For. Nicole Kidman is absolutely spectacular in that. Based on the Pamela Smart case, an easier mark because the boys were teenagers, but same idea.

Yes that was a great movie. Introduced Joaquin Phoenix who was amazing in it.
Black Widow w/Teresa Russel and Debra Winger- an example of a Narc who seduces both men and women.
And what were the motives? In Body heat it was money, in Black widow it was money. To Die for it was s-x.

 

[IQuestion]

I understand all the theories that have been discussed and I think they all have some merit or are at least conceivable. The facts are that Jane knew Wendi fairly well and knew about Wendi and Jeff’s relationship issues – including Jeff’s jealously which, according to Wendi, may or may not have been warranted . According to Jeff, Wendi was seeing other men throughout their relatively short relationship. Also, per Jeff, he confronted Wendi about the cheating which led to the ‘big’ Gainesville fight shortly before (as in weeks) the murder. The reality is even if Wendi didn’t purposely feed Jane stories about Jeff as part of some elaborate ‘setup’ plan, she sill would have confided in her about their issues and that’s exactly what she did.

IMO, Jane bringing Jeff’s name up as a potential suspect was not necessarily because of anything Wendi told her about their relationship issues, it was just a logical choice. Just like after Wendi told Jane that they fingerprinted her - Jane said to Wendi - 'well I would hope so, you're a logical choice'. I'm sure Jane felt the same way about Jeff - he was also a 'logical choice'. The additional color Jane provided after mentioning Jeff by adding that they were having relationship issues and Jeff was very jealous just so happened to be true. Wendi gave him a reason to be jealous and I realize many think that Wendi purposely was making Jeff jealous as part of the elaborate plan. Personally I think many details of this case are overanalyzed to a very extreme level.

That's how solving murder for hire investigations should work. Especially when, so many people are involved in attempting to cover up their involvement. I am not the "don't read," " don't watch" or "don't listen"-type. I love reading the ideas & reasoning of other sleuths.

 

[Going Rogue]

I agree with you. I don’t think there was an elaborate setup, but I do think that it’s possible that raising the idea of Jeff as a suspect may have been intentional, as a diversion tactic.

Yes, it may have been intentional but also (to quote Jane) “it’s a logical choice”. I think too many here overanalyze this case and what makes it worse is they are doing it with the benefit of hindsight information. Liberally hours after the murder Jeff is suggested as having a possible motive – it is just 100% a logical choice and that fact that Jane brought up Jeff is analyzed in so many weird ways when its just a simple 101 data point. Days after the murder, the Goldbergs, Dan’s very close friends, came to their police interview with the names off all the women Dan was romantically tied to. Why? – because its just 101 or logical to investigate potential love interests / potential jealous ex motives. Motives for murders are very commonly over money or a love triangle or someone rejected / discarded.

I would bet anything that Jeff was not part of an elaborate set up plan and I’ll spare the redundancy of explaining why because I’ve given all the reasons before. Many that closely follow this case are convinced he was being set up in a very elaborate way down to the detail of the rental cars. I think confirmation biases on anything that strengthens the case against Wendi play a major factor in the belief Jeff was being set up. I say that because if Jeff was being set up to the degree people believe, I would agree there is no other way to look at Wendi but being100% involved in the plot. I have nothing against anyone that believes in the elaborate setup theory, but I think its very flawed deductive reasoning if you look at all the data points objectively and leave your confirmation biases at the door.

 

[amicuscurie]

Lol. A fellow local? I didnt know a couple of folks on here either live in South Florida or used to. To me, that is one of the most fascinating parts of this case. We used to live 5 minutes away from the As in Coral Springs. A good friend and I were just discussing the fact that her daughter, who also was born and raised in Coral Springs, would've been in Wendi's class and probably would've been someone she would've been friends with since she was very academically inclined as well. But she went to the other high school.

I agree that I think he was mistaken. How could he live in Miami and call it the Dolphin Expressway. He meant the Golden Glades. You would go from 95 to Golden Glades to get on the turnpike to go to Orlando if they were coming from South Beach. But if they were driving from their Coral Springs home, they probably would've taken the Sawgrass Expressway to the turnpike and head north. Either way, the dolphin Expressway is way out-of-the-way.

However, Coral Springs is north of where Charlie lived. He lived near the Hard Rock hotel. Regardless, he can get down in the weeds all he wants about the Sunpass, to me it is absolutely unbelievable that anyone would text someone that they were outside their house if they were just driving by on the highway.

Hey! Thanks for the Golden Glades support. In my opinion, it’s the worst, even after they tried to fix it. Every traffic report in the morning has it backed up all the time. The amount of driving Charlie was doing on these highways, for me, would be intolerable.

 

[amicuscurie]

They did live in Maplewood Isle. We always took the Sawgrass because it was the fastest, but it is possible that they took the streets to University Dr. I just thought of the fact that Coral Springs is north of where Charlie lived so they actually had to drive SOUTH to go back to Charlie, then head back north to get to Orlando. I would've taken the Sawgrass to 595 E. to get to Charlie and then get back to the turnpike and head north to go to Orlando. Unless they were in their South Beach rental condo at that point.

Yes, I believe they left from the Beach and got on the Turnpike either at Golden Glades, or north of Charlie’s. But I don’t know Broward well at all, and I don’t take expressways if I can avoid it.

 

[amicuscurie]

Right it is possible as I said that they took the Sawgrass. One would always think the Sawgrass is faster but it’s just a choice. Maybe taking University for all those decades they would choose that way rather than go west on Atlantic just to get to the Sawgrass.

I always felt they went from the family home to Charlies.
It made more sense-preparing the house for the arrival of the boys after they returned with Wendis stuff a few days later.

Why would they want to put Wendi’s stuff in their expensive, limited space condo on S Beach?
But if Corbitt has the records, and the Prosecution has stated for a FACT they were in S beach, then they left from there.

It’s important to note that even though technically, Charlies home is listed as Fort Lauderdale, it’s really Davie.
Not anywhere near the beach, but close to his Dental school (Nova). He must be the farthest intracostal from the beach. It would have taken him at least half an hour by boat to get into the Atlantic. Not that this has anything to do with anything…lol…his home near the beach would have probably been knocked down and a 30 million mansion would have been built. His property is not as in demand bc of its location (also near 441)

Hypothetically they weren’t expecting the boys or Wendi to ever live in the CS house, and hypothetically they didn’t have a lot of stuff, possibly she didn’t even take furniture.

 

[amicuscurie]

But this is the gift of the manipulations of W.A.. It would be at the top of Jane's mind because we know that, although supposedly WA had laryngitis and couldn't speak to DM, yet she went on a walk with Jane early that week to supposedly discuss how torn she was about what to do about Jeff. She filled Jane's head with all the talk of how incredibly jealous and accusatory he was, making him seem irrational.

Of course, we know that she spent the entire nine months of their relationship, as he said, bemoaning every day how awful Danny was to her and how she couldn't believe she got stuck in Tallahassee because of him. We also know from what we have heard from multiple ways that she did give him reason to be jealous and she was pushing his buttons and seeing other men. Staging IMO that scene in a coffee place she knew he went to so he could react the way she wound him up to react in a public setting with witnesses. She wound Jane up, and, like so much to do with WA, it was no coincidence that she had LE call Jane to come to the station. All planned IMO.

She is straight out of the movies like Body Heat. Wicked smart. Puppeteer. IMO. We have seen that play out in real life in how many cases through the years.

Good post!

 

[JerseyPride]

A very interesting tidbit was pointed out by a commenter on the latest STS livestream.

During last Friday's motion hearing, the topic of the admissibility of the Matsuri and Dolce transcipts was argued.

As Georgia pointed out, the Dolce transcript was admitted at CA's trial because there was a witness (Katie) who was able to authenticate the contents. Georgia then states that this was not the case with the Matsuri transcript, which was kept out for that reason. BUT, then Georgia immediately states, "that could potentially change" meaning that there could be a witness to authenticate the Matsuri transcript at DA's trial.

I take this to mean that Charlie's testimony might be elicited to authenticate the Matsuri transcript. Whether there's any chance of that happening or if Georgia is just being coy remains to be seen.

Start watching this video at 1:53:20 for the relevant exchange with the Court

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes early on in this case I compared her to the Body Heat character.

It’s important to note that Wendi had already established in her mind that Jeffrey would have put up with anything she threw at him. As in Body heat, she used her body to trap him. Even an attorney in that movie. She already knew his weakness in that case he had… she (Wendi),used that to seduce and use him. He was an empath and he wanted kids. Perfect for her schemes. She is able to read people well- that is definitely a “gift” she has.

Not to judge Jeffrey for that because as women, we don’t or will never understand how men (and I guess women-but more rare), can give up all, ruin marriages, ruin their relationships with their children… even murder (think Chris Watts) for a woman they are attached to physically. I know many women whose lives were destroyed by someone who was able to seduce their husbands. It’s very sad.

Once she knew she had Jeffrey ( not many men would endure as long as he did with a woman doing what she did to him to hurt him), and he was already emotionally attached to the boys, there was no way out for him. A deep attachment as he himself admitted,

Speaking hypothetically and not about anyone in this case, the best manipulators in my experience are not aware they are doing it, just as a fish is not aware it is wet.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes early on in this case I compared her to the Body Heat character.

It’s important to note that Wendi had already established in her mind that Jeffrey would have put up with anything she threw at him. As in Body heat, she used her body to trap him. Even an attorney in that movie. She already knew his weakness in that case he had… she (Wendi),used that to seduce and use him. He was an empath and he wanted kids. Perfect for her schemes. She is able to read people well- that is definitely a “gift” she has.

Not to judge Jeffrey for that because as women, we don’t or will never understand how men (and I guess women-but more rare), can give up all, ruin marriages, ruin their relationships with their children… even murder (think Chris Watts) for a woman they are attached to physically. I know many women whose lives were destroyed by someone who was able to seduce their husbands. It’s very sad.

Once she knew she had Jeffrey ( not many men would endure as long as he did with a woman doing what she did to him to hurt him), and he was already emotionally attached to the boys, there was no way out for him. A deep attachment as he himself admitted,

I remember in his interview, where he said she had “this sexuality.”

 

[BearWatcher]

So, it is not the outside your house that seals it. It is the be there in 10 minutes that is needed. Which they have.

 

[amicuscurie]

A very interesting tidbit was pointed out by a commenter on the latest STS livestream.

During last Friday's motion hearing, the topic of the admissibility of the Matsuri and Dolce transcipts was argued.

As Georgia pointed out, the Dolce transcript was admitted at CA's trial because there was a witness (Katie) who was able to authenticate the contents. Georgia then states that this was not the case with the Matsuri transcript, which was kept out for that reason. BUT, then Georgia immediately states, "that could potentially change" meaning that there could be a witness to authenticate the Matsuri transcript at DA's trial.

I take this to mean that Charlie's testimony might be elicited to authenticate the Matsuri transcript. Whether there's any chance of that happening or if Georgia is just being coy remains to be seen.

Start watching this video at 1:53:20 for the relevant exchange with the Court

Interesting. Theoretically Harvey could also authenticate it, but he’s not listed as a witness, is he?

 

[JerseyPride]

Interesting. Theoretically Harvey could also authenticate it, but he’s not listed as a witness, is he?

Harvey is not on the State's list.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Yes that was a great movie. Introduced Joaquin Phoenix who was amazing in it.
Black Widow w/Teresa Russel and Debra Winger- an example of a Narc who seduces both men and women.
And what were the motives? In Body heat it was money, in Black widow it was money. To Die for it was s-x.

Black Widow was good, too. Actually, I'd say that in to die for, it's a lot like W.A.. In that movie, she has unbridled ambition. As soon as Matt Dillon tells her he wants her to help him at the restaurant rather than pursue working at the local weather station (lol which she thinks is her ticket to the Today show), she made up her mind. The difference is that WA is smart and competent. In the movie, the character is a complete know nothing. She has no reason to get rid of the husband. All she has to do is get divorced. She lies to the boy and tells him that he is abusive and that he's going to take her dog. How many dateline episodes have we seen where folks seem to find it offensive to get divorced, but have no problem killing someone rather than get divorced. It's insane.

We know WA and her family were livid, and it shows to this day, that DM supposedly did not view her as an equal, and her ego (or her family's on behalf of her), couldn't stand it. But, as we all know, the relocation issue, the never-ending battles over every, single thing, and the religion issue were paramount. Donna's email to Wendi where she laid out how important it is that she put her foot down because of the fact that she will find herself an outsider with her own children one day with them all being kosher and orthodox and her not. I believe that was a huge part of the equation as well.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Hey! Thanks for the Golden Glades support. In my opinion, it’s the worst, even after they tried to fix it. Every traffic report in the morning has it backed up all the time. The amount of driving Charlie was doing on these highways, for me, would be intolerable.

I so agree. I really don't know how that man did the intense work he did and then drove all over the place to boot. When he was not getting work because of folks not wanting to deal with their family after the headlines everyone saw, he was going as far as up to Port St. Lucie. That is crazy.

So true about the Golden Glades. It has always been bad, but I find going to Dade just the worst if it involves having to go on 95 through there. And then US won off 95 into Carl Gables is bad. I don't think that Charlie drove that far south because he wasn't getting work and day county much at all. One of the few things that he said that is true is how hard he worked. He absolutely did. To be doing implants, etc., all day and be driving back-and-forth and then get up and do it all over again the next day. That's a lot. Of course, Making 3 million a year is good motivation Lol.

 

[Knitpicker]

Interesting that I posted that Carl Video from Months ago Monday on the Weinsteins..I was confused and had thought they were part of R’s law group….(although remembering they did rep Charlie in the past)and just yesterday they filed a court doc claiming they have nothing to do with anything having to do with….so no doubt they are reading here.
Or just a coincidence?

 

[amicuscurie]

I so agree. I really don't know how that man did the intense work he did and then drove all over the place to boot. When he was not getting work because of folks not wanting to deal with their family after the headlines everyone saw, he was going as far as up to Port St. Lucie. That is crazy.

So true about the Golden Glades. It has always been bad, but I find going to Dade just the worst if it involves having to go on 95 through there. And then US won off 95 into Carl Gables is bad. I don't think that Charlie drove that far south because he wasn't getting work and day county much at all. One of the few things that he said that is true is how hard he worked. He absolutely did. To be doing implants, etc., all day and be driving back-and-forth and then get up and do it all over again the next day. That's a lot. Of course, Making 3 million a year is good motivation Lol.

I think Matsuri is in Coral Gables, actually. I believe on one of the tapes he says he’s going to an office down there, maybe one where he and Harvey are discussing where to meet. And if I’m thinking of the right place, it’s on the very Western border of the Gables, as well, in some old strip mall, very out of the way for anywhere, and not a ritzy neighborhood by any means, in my opinion.

I personally have never heard of a “traveling periodontist,” in my experience once someone is out of school for a while, they get their own office and rely on referral relationships, especially in such a lucrative specialty. It’s always been my feeling that it is possible that Harvey’s friends might have been letting Charlie work out of their offices as a favor, possibly perhaps because he could not get referrals from other dentists, or perhaps not enough of them to start his own practice. It’s possible Harvey’s friends might have been willing to let him use a room in exchange for a fee or a cut of his receipts. In general, it seems to me that absent such a personal relationship and/or financial incentive, most dentists would just refer their perio patients out, as is common with all specialties.

 

[Knitpicker]

I think Matsuri is in Coral Gables, actually. I believe on one of the tapes he says he’s going to an office down there, maybe one where he and Harvey are discussing where to meet. And if I’m thinking of the right place, it’s on the Western side of the Gables, as well, in some old strip mall, very out of the way for anywhere, and not a ritzy neighborhood by any means, in my opinion.

I personally have never heard of a “traveling periodontist,” in my experience once someone is out of school for a while, they get their own office, especially in a lucrative specialty. It’s always been my feeling that Harvey’s friends were letting Charlie work out of their offices as a favor, possibly because he could not get enough referrals to start his own office. I do not understand why a general dentist would not just refer someone out to a periodontist, rather than have one in his own office one day a week. That doesn’t make economic sense to me, assuming these dentists had plenty of their own business to accommodate and relatively few perio patients, who in any event could easily be referred elsewhere. Overhead for any dentist is huge, in my experience, and so it is possible Charlie could not get enough referrals to support it. Driving all day like that, in my opinion, doesn’t seem like something someone would do if they had a choice, in general.

It’s actually a quite common thing. My dentist has a periodontist who is at his practice on Mondays by appointment.
It’s actually a great thing. No rent, no staff salary, etc. Independent contractors.