FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #24

[Missyrocks5]

I think this was the plan from the beginning. The conflict always seemed problematic, and it was probably in an effort to, knowing she would get a conviction, then have an appealable issue. If she gets a new trial, and if the state had arrested Wendi, they would have both trials on their hands, and that was probably always part of the defense's goal. If the judge is check mated by either going forward and giving Donna an issue for appeal, or giving this a huge delay, which I think it is going to be the latter, I hope that the judge forces both lawyers off the case and makes her go get new attorneys so she is not with this ridiculous conflict between her and Charlie.

And maybe, the state can go all in and go arrest Wendi and try them both together when this trial gets continued. I don't think that the judge is going to be able to fix the problem. I think that he is checkmated by what they did, and it is going to cause a delay of who knows how long. If he goes forward, he gives Donna an appeal, if he doesn't, then they get a huge delay to try to help Wendy not get arrested. IMO.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835836854584889437

 

[amicuscurie]

I think this was the plan from the beginning. The conflict always seemed problematic, and it was probably in an effort to, knowing she would get a conviction, then have an appealable issue. If she gets a new trial, and if the state had arrested Wendi, they would have both trials on their hands, and that was probably always part of the goal. If the judge is check mated by either going forward and giving Donna an issue for appeal, or giving this a huge delay, which I think it is going to be the latter, I hope that the judge forces both lawyers off the case and makes her go get new attorneys so she is not with this ridiculous conflict between her and Charlie.

And maybe, the state can go all in and go arrest Wendi and try them both together when this trial gets continued. I don't think that the judge is going to be able to fix the problem. I think that he is checkmated by what they did, and it is going to cause a delay of who knows how long. If he goes forward, he gives Donna an appeal, if he doesn't, then they get a huge delay to try to help Wendy not get arrested. IMO.

Agreed, good points all around.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Agreed, good points all around.

Agree. Infuriating. I think it was also part of their plan to stick it to the true crime community of folks who traveled there to watch the trial. You don't have anyone traveling to watch the trial who doesn't think that she's guilty. So it was a way to stick it to, not only the prosecution making them work their tails off to prepare for a trial and then filing this motion, but to the true crime community and Youtubers, who were going through time and expense to be present for the trial. STS, Joel and his producer, just for one are driving there from Miami. KatieCoolLady is there, not sure who else.

 

[IQuestion]

For the many who knew/felt or were doubtful having DR take on the defense of DA was not a good idea; stand up and take a bow! I remembered a term to describe actions in another Florida trial I followed.
Weaponized Incompetence and Strategic incompetence?
It is always more effective if you can get (or pay) someone else to do it for you. But hasn't it already been proven? Look who Charlie hired in the first place? SG & LR

 

[AmandaSkis]

With these possible planned actions by the defense and a need for hearings/judge’s decision, does DA remain in jail during all of this?

Jail is not prison but, at the same time, she isn’t free, so I’m content.

 

[apeXperience]

Well, I am an atty but not a criminal atty. Rashbaum representing both Charlie and Donna is a huge issue for her. And these filings show that. Even with a waiver of conflict of interest. "Ethical Wall" LOL We used Chinese Wall in some cases. How this will result, we shall see

It is difficult not to suspect the sorts of unspoken subservience and slavishness among the prosecutors and judges in Florida, which create an unhealthy Florida judiciary environment.
It seems that some unnamed higher ups with Adelsons’ sympathy still have clouts over the apparent judges and prosecutions causing their decision making process to be difficult. Examples of which are:

1. The comportment of two judges seemingly protecting the 4 Adelsons in 2016
2. The open conflict between then State Attorney Willie Meggs and the TPD Chief of Police with regard to the 2016 PCA against Charles Adelson
3. Two judges have not restricted the damaging testimony of Dr. Jeff LaCasse in Sigfredo Garcia and Katherine Magbanua trials but the current judge of the Adelsons’ cases has put conditions on said testimony twice, in Charles Adelson case and again in Donna Adelson case
4. It is easy to have interrogations on the 4 extensions (too much not to be noticed as the timing) of deadline Charles Adelson appeal benefited at the District Court Of Appeal First Appellate District Of Florida given that … Trisha Meggs Pate (daughter of Willie Meggs!) is the Assistant Attorney General representing the State in Charles Adelson’s appeal (see attached.)

It is strange how accommodating the Assistant State Attorneys are in this Donna Adelson’s case every time the attorneys for Donna Adelson create some hurdles.
Between Charles Adelson’s guilty verdict in 11/6/2023 and Private Attorney Addition of Daniel Rashbaum in 1/9/2024 for Donna Adelson, Mr. Rashbaum has made a lot of strange comments about the case including at YT vlogs, and also including about timing of indictment, the decision of leaving the US or not, and the timing of going to non-extradition territory of Vietnam with one way tickets. During these 2 months (from 11/6/2023 to 1/9/2024) Rashbaum could not evoke attorney client privilege between him and the indicted Donna Adelson. The State Attorney should have issued a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness regarding statements he has made during these 2 months.

Given that Charles Adelson, the convicted client of Rashbaum is already listed as State witness in his mother's case, a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness against Donna Adelson would have made this meek judge think thrice before lifting the doubt about Rashbaum’s conflict of interests. It is not too late now for the State Attorneys to make a move and issue a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness such that all of these clever interlocking attorneys’ maneuvers are blunted.

 

[Knitpicker]

It seems to me that this conflict, and in particular the issue regarding cross-examination of Charlie, should have been apparent to Charlie’s appellate counsel as soon as Charlie was listed as a witness, and so I do question why this Motion was only made only, on the eve of trial.

Regardless of intent, as I understand it, the practical effect of the Motion, should it be granted, would be for Charlie to be effectively precluded from testifying for the state, as he cannot be cross-examined. If the defense does not call him, then he does not testify at all, and in my understanding that would mean that there would be no witness to tell the double extortion story.

In my opinion, that has consequences for Donna’s defense, and it may be helpful for her.

I thought the issue is that he can’t be questioned on the correspondence with Donna, that the murder was due to a drug deal gone bad (with Dan).

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, Sept. 17th:
*Jury Selection begins (@ 9am ET) - FL - Daniel Eric Markel (41) (shot to death July 18, 2014, Tallahassee) - *Donna Sue Adelson (54 @ time of crime/73/now 74) arrested by FBI @ Miami Intl. Airport (11/13/23) on out-of-County warrant from Leon County arrest Warrant [#FW231o2353] & indicted (11/15/23), charged (11/21/23) & arraigned (12/11/23) with 1st degree murder, conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & solicitation to commit 1st degree murder. No bond. Held at Miami-Dade County Jail (Turner Guilford Knight Correctional Center. Leon County has 15 days to extradite from Miami-Dade County). Transferred from Miami-Dade to Leon County on 11/20/23. Held without bond (murder), $25K (conspiracy) & $25K (solicitation) on 11/21/23. Plead not guilty. Leon County
Jury selection set to begin on 9/17/24. (3-4 days)
Trial set to begin on 9/23/24 or 9/20/24 per Judge. (expected to last 2 weeks).
Leon County Circuit Judge Stephen S. Everett presiding. Prosecutor Georgia Cappelman & Assistant State attorney Sarah Dugan. Defense attorneys Robert Alexander Morris & Daniel Rashbaum.
Case & Court info from 11/13/23 thru 9/6/24 reference post #524 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...murdered-by-hitmen-4-guilty-24.722492/page-27
9/6/24 Docket updates: [159] Motion in Limine. [160] Court minutes. [161] Motion stipulated Motion to perpetuate testimony. [162] Next final pretrial hearing on 9/12/24 @ 9am.
9/12/24 Update: Thursday attorneys were arguing over the admissibility of evidence including text messages between Donna Adelson & her son Charlie about news coverage of the case as well as text messages between Donna Adelson & her daughter Wendi within hours of Charlie Adelson’s conviction. Tallahassee Police Sergeant Chris Corbett was called to the stand Thursday morning to discuss cell phone location data. Attorneys are arguing over a summary that will be shared with the jury. The judge ruled that the summary would be considered evidence in the case. Lead prosecutor Georgia Cappleman estimates it could take six to seven days to present the state’s case. Potential jurors are expected to report 9/17/24 Tuesday morning & attorneys estimate it could take two to three days to pick a jury in this case.
9/9/24 Docket updates: [163] Trial set on 9/17/24 @ 8:30am, Room 3G. [164] Motion nonparty David Oscar Markus [former counsel to Charles Adelson] Motion to quash trial subpoena. [165] Order on State's Motion in Limine. 9/11/24 Docket update: [166] Order on defendant's Motion in Limine. [167] Trial set on 9/18/24 @ 9am, Room 3G. 9/12/24 Docket updates: [168] Trial set on 9/19/14 9am, Room 3G. [169] Trial set on 9/20/24 @ 9am, Room 3G. [170] Case comments from Court event-Defendant's Motion to Quash Subpoena-Denied as to all issues/Motion in Limine under review/Orders to follow. [171] Court minutes. [172] List of exhibits. [173] Witness list.
9/16/24 Update: Jury selection begins on 9/17/24 & the Judge expects opening statements to start on Friday, 9/20/24. 9/16/24 Docket update: Response to Charlie Adelson's motion seeking to preclude former Counsel from cross examination filed by Robert A. Morris. See post #661, page 34, thread #24.

 

[cottonweaver]

Different lawyer, different opinions on the new motions. ( ML doesn't appear to have watched the STS episode but some members ask him Qs based on what they just heard on STS. Pity that all three weren't on the same show)

First 5 minutes or so and then M Lawyer James returns at 1hr40 to give further thoughts for ten minutes.

ML asks twice whether CA actually received a sub from the State, as well as having appeared on the State's witness list. He also believes that CA wasn't going to be called by the state in any case.

Regardless of the differing opinions, we'll soon find out once we get the state's response.

 

[amicuscurie]

I thought the issue is that he can’t be questioned on the correspondence with Donna, that the murder was due to a drug deal gone bad (with Dan).

The issue is that it can’t come in at all, as I understand it, UNLESS it is to refute a claim double extortion. The way I see it, the only person who can talk about that on the stand is Charlie. In my opinion a good way to keep timeout is to keep the state from calling Charlie, like, for example, if they can’t cross examine him.

 

[Knitpicker]

The issue is that it can’t come in at all, as I understand it, UNLESS it is to refute a claim double extortion. The way I see it, the only person who can talk about that on the stand is Charlie. In my opinion a good way to keep timeout is to keep the state from calling Charlie, like, for example, if they can’t cross examine him.

Charlie has that appellate lawyer… maybe all this his idea. Hence the smirk on C’s face.

 

[cottonweaver]

Live feed, today - started ten mins ago

A woman attorney ( name Niles ?) confirms CA received subp on Sept 11th
Morris claims that CA's new attorney was hired yesterday ( Appears to suggest that DA will be paying CA's new attorney)
Morris claims that he's bee walled off since inception and that he met CA for the first time this last weekend. That CA asked ' have you seen my phone' ( ??? Audio?)
CA's conflict waiver was verbal - claims Morris
Cappleman says she'd only call CA as rebuttal but adds that could change.

Everett seems to take the view which Potuto & Jansen set out yesterday

ETA
To Donna, same colloquy questions as previous from Everett but the one answer which Donna did not supply last time and which nobody caught - ' have you been able to speak with non conflicted counsel? ' is finally answered, but Morris answers for Donna now. Answer is No

jury selection is on hold.
At 1.30pm this CA attorney will meet with Everett.

DA now has that opportunity.

Have switched to STS's live because it has Tim Jansen commentating.
Tim J says that this is a total cluster---- have linked to STS in the next WS post

 

[JerseyPride]

The non-lawyers opining that the conflict issue is not a huge problem or a major bungle by the defense should stick to their day jobs. Why you think you have any idea what you’re talking about is beyond me.

 

[cottonweaver]

commentary feed, started 5 mins ago

TJ says
Looks like this trial may now not go forward, he opines on the many, many $ thousands wasted ( 8 mo-1yr delay)
Tim J says that this is a total cluster----
Tim J says he's heard that CA's new attorney is a younger male ( less experienced, local attorney)
TJ repeats the points he's made since January - DR should never have been repping Donna

TJ thinks Rashbaum should be removed from the case now and believes that Everett could still do that now - although CA could change his mind all over again in time with the 1.30pm meet with Everett. An independent lawyer is likely now being brought into see Donna to discuss all the issues.

TJ says that DR might now call Hufferman appeal lawyer under oath, then CA changes his mind and signs a waiver and comes to court attesting that under oath. This scenario would mean that this trial could go forward. ( Hufferman's associate was in court today but not the man himself because he was travelling back from Pensacola) TJ adds that if he was Charlie, he would not do waive conflict. ' There's only one seat in the life raft, both Donna and Charlie want it.'

TJ adds that if he was the independent lawyer who's advising Donna right now, he would not advise Donna to waive or make such huge decisions under pressure like this
Joel STS says that the independent lawyer only has an hour with Donna and he believes that we should learn more around 10.15am

 

[apeXperience]

It is difficult not to suspect the sorts of unspoken subservience and slavishness among the prosecutors and judges in Florida, which create an unhealthy Florida judiciary environment.
It seems that some unnamed higher ups with Adelsons’ sympathy still have clouts over the apparent judges and prosecutions causing their decision making process to be difficult. Examples of which are:

1. The comportment of two judges seemingly protecting the 4 Adelsons in 2016
2. The open conflict between then State Attorney Willie Meggs and the TPD Chief of Police with regard to the 2016 PCA against Charles Adelson
3. Two judges have not restricted the damaging testimony of Dr. Jeff LaCasse in Sigfredo Garcia and Katherine Magbanua trials but the current judge of the Adelsons’ cases has put conditions on said testimony twice, in Charles Adelson case and again in Donna Adelson case
4. It is easy to have interrogations on the 4 extensions (too much not to be noticed as the timing) of deadline Charles Adelson appeal benefited at the District Court Of Appeal First Appellate District Of Florida given that … Trisha Meggs Pate (daughter of Willie Meggs!) is the Assistant Attorney General representing the State in Charles Adelson’s appeal (see attached.)

It is strange how accommodating the Assistant State Attorneys are in this Donna Adelson’s case every time the attorneys for Donna Adelson create some hurdles.
Between Charles Adelson’s guilty verdict in 11/6/2023 and Private Attorney Addition of Daniel Rashbaum in 1/9/2024 for Donna Adelson, Mr. Rashbaum has made a lot of strange comments about the case including at YT vlogs, and also including about timing of indictment, the decision of leaving the US or not, and the timing of going to non-extradition territory of Vietnam with one way tickets. During these 2 months (from 11/6/2023 to 1/9/2024) Rashbaum could not evoke attorney client privilege between him and the indicted Donna Adelson. The State Attorney should have issued a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness regarding statements he has made during these 2 months.

Given that Charles Adelson, the convicted client of Rashbaum is already listed as State witness in his mother's case, a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness against Donna Adelson would have made this meek judge think thrice before lifting the doubt about Rashbaum’s conflict of interests. It is not too late now for the State Attorneys to make a move and issue a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness such that all of these clever interlocking attorneys’ maneuvers are blunted.
View attachment 531784

View attachment 531785

The only fair and ethical way Rashbaum's conflict of interests in between alleged murderer co-conspirator Donna Adelson and convict with LWOP Charles Adelson is repaired would be 1) for the judge to ensure Donna Adelson's rights for conflict free counsel and 2) for Rashbaum to blunt his "greed" and voluntarily remove himself. When David Oscar Markus removed himself from representing Charles Adelson in 2022, thereby opening the door for Rashbaum to get in, and ... ultimately fail to secure his client's release, he showed Rashbaum the decent way to proceed. Thus far however, per his choice of actions at court and ... with social media, Rashbaum seems to be less than unobjectionable.

The State Attorneys should not be indifferent with this Rashbaum made conflict of interests situation. The Rashbaum's continued involvement could lead to 1) not guilty because of the benefit of the doubt, or 2) mistrial, or 3) succesful appeal later on. Again ... it is not too late today for the State Attorneys to issue a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness such that all of these clever interlocking attorneys’ maneuvers are wasted.

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

Parties are discussing #CharlieAdelson's motion ahead of jury selection Donna Adelson's trial. State says their plan for now is to only call Charlie as a rebuttal witness.

Judge questioning #DonnaAdelson's team on why there was no waiver from Charlie regarding Rashbaum also representing his mother. Defense says there was a verbal waiver from Charlie. There is a written waiver that's from an attorney that consulted with Charlie.


Attorney Niles is in court representing Charlie saying he does NOT waive his rights to have Rashbaum, who was his attorney, cross examine him if state calls him in Donna's case. He also doesn't waive any client privilege. (Rashbaum represented Charlie at his murder trial and now his mom)


Judge: If Charlie cannot be properly cross examined Donna has lost the right to effective representation and therefore we have an issue related to whether or not a new trial is merited. It is foolish to charge forward under the circumstances.


Defense talking this over with #DonnaAdelson



Judge now speaks to #DonnaAdelson: Do you understand you have the right to conflict free counsel?



Note: Defense attorney Rashbaum is not speaking at all. His co-counsel is doing all the talking.


NEW: Judge recessing until 1:15pm. He is releasing any potential jurors that have shown up this morning. He said IF jury selection is to begin he will have a new group at 1:15pm. Judge is recessing to give #DonnaAdelson time to speak to 3rd party counsel.


After a sidebar the judge said they will be back at 10:30. Not sure why the switch of times.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1836024669243408526

 

[Wishbone]

The only fair and ethical way Rashbaum's conflict of interests in between alleged murderer co-conspirator Donna Adelson and convict with LWOP Charles Adelson is repaired would be 1) for the judge to ensure Donna Adelson's rights for conflict free counsel and 2) for Rashbaum to blunt his "greed" and voluntarily remove himself. When David Oscar Markus removed himself from representing Charles Adelson in 2022, thereby opening the door for Rashbaum to get in, and ... ultimately fail to secure his client's release, he showed Rashbaum the decent way to proceed. Thus far however, per his choice of actions at court and ... with social media, Rashbaum seems to be less than unobjectionable.

The State Attorneys should not be indifferent with this Rashbaum made conflict of interests situation. The Rashbaum's continued involvement could lead to 1) not guilty because of the benefit of the doubt, or 2) mistrial, or 3) succesful appeal later on. Again ... it is not too late today for the State Attorneys to issue a motion to subpoena Rashbaum as State witness such that all of these clever interlocking attorneys’ maneuvers are wasted.

I don't understand why the state wasn't aware and resolving this conflict of interest issue sooner. How could they be unaware of a possible conflict? Did the state just drop the ball? After 10 years of dealing with this case it's a strange situation to come to light so late in the game. Just color me confused. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I don't understand why the state wasn't aware and resolving this conflict of interest issue sooner. How could they be unaware of a possible conflict? Did the state just drop the ball? After 10 years of dealing with this case it's a strange situation to come to light so late in the game. Just color me confused. JMO

On the live feed, when asked, Georgia Cappleman stated that she thought Charlie HAD waived conflict but that this was a case of Charlei changing his mind

 

[Wishbone]

On the live feed, when asked, Georgia Cappleman stated that she thought Charlie HAD waived conflict but that this was a case of Charlei changing his mind

Thank you for answering. The state“thought” CA waived the issue? I'm wondering why something more wasn't put in place to prevent ANYTHING possibly delaying this trial more than it has already been delayed. I'm disappointed. JMO