FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #25

[Zedzded]

Thinking out loud, "If DA were trying for a plea deal, what kind of information could she give that hasn't already been reviewed?" ?

I've been banging on for ages about DA making a deal or WA or CA, one of them flipping. I was convinced of it. I now think there is zero chance of any of them cooperating with the State and admitting to even a minor level of complicity. They will maintain their innocence to their last breath. It doesn't make sense, but then they don't. Every time I think I've got them figured out, something happens to prove me wrong. They're twisted and broken. They seem to have love and loyalty and kindness, but paradoxically are filled with anger, hate, bitterness. You can't have both.

 

[BearWatcher]

Wow...was the motion/request filed by Morris? I have always wondered what items/documents may have been "hidden, locked away and stored." DA said she needed to share information with WA. Can anyone recall the hot mic of DA saying something about "codes or keys" if the plane crashed? I can't find it, but I remember hearing it.
I have never been able to wrap my mind around a (long time married) couple selling their family home, getting rid of a lifetime of memories (collectibles/art/heirlooms) and moving to a condo. If given the same situation, I would have to rent a storage space until I could come to terms with leaving everything. The same for CA's home contents. It always seemed odd.
DA WTTE ..."I have all the information. I have the cemetary property. I want her to see all that. I want her to her to have all these papers and the wills. I want her to see all this."
PS. I know LE was still looking for "a burner or extra phone used by Charlie." LE asked June Umchinda about it when they interviewed her prior to CA's trial. @25:10 of the interview. The interviewers were very laid back in their questions. Intentionally matching June's hesitance/low energy? (Please do not take that as a slight on JU as she has had her life turned upside down. I hope she has a wonderful future.) They were amazing and got lots of useful information!

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Tried to find the link noted in the original post that was quoted, but only able to find Patty’s Sunday You Tube channel. She indicates she filed a report with the Talhassee police against a person who threatened her. She provides background prior to 8 min mark. Very disturbing,if it turns out to be true.

 

[amicuscurie]

I've been banging on for ages about DA making a deal or WA or CA, one of them flipping. I was convinced of it. I now think there is zero chance of any of them cooperating with the State and admitting to even a minor level of complicity. They will maintain their innocence to their last breath. It doesn't make sense, but then they don't. Every time I think I've got them figured out, something happens to prove me wrong. They're twisted and broken. They seem to have love and loyalty and kindness, but paradoxically are filled with anger, hate, bitterness. You can't have both.

A cynical take is that in my opinion it is possible W could now be less worried about imminent arrest. Realistically in my opinion it could take at least a year for Donna to select another lawyer and get him up to speed, and then there is the matter of finding a trial date that works for everyone, and then of course, there are often continuances. Whether true or not, many legal experts I’ve seen seem to be of the opinion that W will not be arrested until Donna is tried because she is needed to testify and there may be fifth amendment considerations which will arise if she has been indicted when she is called to testify. (She can, and has, received limited immunity, but the rules may be different for people who have been indicted, they may be entitled to assert their privilege as to all questions, regardless of any immunity the state may be prepared to offer). W is a lawyer, and she has a very good lawyer from what I understand, so it’s possible in my opinion that she would know all of this.

In my opinion it is possible that Charlie, with the benefit of his conflict-free appellate attorney, might think he has a good chance of prevailing on the post-conviction issue of ineffective assistance of counsel. In my opinion it is possible this may motivate him, and his appellate lawyer, to seek a deal because they view themselves as being in a favorable position over the state. However, in my opinion it’s possible they may wish to proceed with their initial appeal first. (Ineffective assistance, in my understanding, is a claim for “post conviction” relief and cannot be argued in the first direct appeal, so Charlie, in my understanding, would have to pursue the direct appeal and lose on that first before he could raise the ineffective assistance issue.). In my opinion, it’s possible that after the direct appeal is completed, Charlie may be in a better position, in my opinion, to deal with the state because he can now bring a potential ineffective assistance claim which he stands a decent chance of winning (just my opinion). Again, W is a lawyer and has a good lawyer and it is possible she would know all of this, in my opinion.

Donna, assuming she would be willing to turn on her own daughter, might be interested in making a deal. In my opinion the state may have a significant interest in sparing themselves the time and expense of another trial, and thus she might be in an advantageous position at this point. This is something that, in my opinion, Charlie, W, and their lawyers might be aware if, and if so it might affect their own willingness to make a deal before Donna does, despite all the cynical factors I mentioned above which might cut against that.

All in all, in my opinion this thing with Rash and thrown a giant monkey wrench in this case, and it may be a long time before we see anything else happen.

 

[amicuscurie]

Tried to find the link noted in the original post that was quoted, but only able to find Patty’s Sunday You Tube channel. She indicates she filed a report with the Talhassee police against a person who threatened her. She provides background prior to 8 min mark. Very disturbing,if it turns out to be true.

One interesting thing to me about that call is the person helping them with all these arrangements, I believe she was referred to as Susan on the call. I believe she was on the witness list for Donna’s trial, and I believe she is a lawyer. In fact, if I recall correctly, she can be heard in the background if the hot mic call asking whether Wendi would contact the police if they informed her of their plans.

 

[B4igo2it]

Do you mean that their computers would have no trace of that email address? I think if they used burner phones and a different email account that was only accessed on those burner phones then yes that's pretty smart on their part. But with the Adelsons for every smart thing they did, they did 5 dumb things and ultimately they got caught...

I think we've all known that burner phones were used at some stage. They're dumb, but they've probably watched enough crime shows to understand the importance of burner phones. That said, they can still be traced. If they know a suspects actual mobile phone number and there is another number pinging from the same location as their mobile, then they have the burner number.

I have high hopes that WA had a burner also. That would be the icing on the cake.

 

[Going Rogue]

I have high hopes that WA had a burner also. That would be the icing on the cake.

If you look at the ‘flurry’ of phone calls between Donna & Charlie / Charlie & Katie / Katie & Sigfredo leading up to and the day of the murder AND the 18 minute call between Charlie & Wendi the morning of the murder, I don’t have any hopes burner phones will be recovered. If they all had burner phones, I do not believe we would not have the volume of calls recorded on all the arrest affidavits. We know Sigfredo & Katie purchased burner phones, but that was well after the murder after they were running scared. We also know Rivera had multiple phones based on his gang affiliation / activity. I can see Charlie purchasing another phone after the murder like Katie & Sigfredo did, but I don’t think that Wendi or Charlie had burner phones that they used for the murder.

 

[amicuscurie]

If you look at the ‘flurry’ of phone calls between Donna & Charlie / Charlie & Katie / Katie & Sigfredo leading up to and the day of the murder AND the 18 minute call between Charlie & Wendi the morning of the murder, I don’t have any hopes burner phones will be recovered. If they all had burner phones, I do not believe we would not have the volume of calls recorded on all the arrest affidavits. We know Sigfredo & Katie purchased burner phones, but that was well after the murder after they were running scared. We also know Rivera had multiple phones based on his gang affiliation / activity. I can see Charlie purchasing another phone after the murder like Katie & Sigfredo did, but I don’t think that Wendi or Charlie had burner phones that they used for the murder.

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

 

[Going Rogue]

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

Yes, anything is possible but IMO, that would have been too risky & too sloppy even for the maestro who I believe spearheaded all the logistics & communication flow between any of the Adelsons that were involved. The mistake he made was not coordinating any of the logistics or communication flow between his buffer and the hitmen.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, anything is possible but IMO, that would have been too risky & too sloppy even for the maestro who I believe spearheaded all the logistics & communication flow between any of the Adelsons that were involved. The mistake he made was not coordinating any of the logistics or communication flow between his buffer and the hitmen.

I believe nothing is too risky or sloppy for these people, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Sustained]

I believe nothing is too risky or sloppy for these people, but that’s just my opinion.

Your opinion is substantiated by looking at hiring two hitmen who traveled from Miami to Tallahassee on Florida toll roads in a uniquely colored Prius if not many other circumstances.

 

[IQuestion]

I don’t know anything about burner phones, but I do believe it’s possible hypothetically to have an email address that you don’t keep on your phone, you only access it via the web and nobody knows about it. It’s possible hypothetically that if you and another person knew of this account, you could use it to send messages to each other by logging into it and sending messages to “yourself” that the other person could then log in and check. It’s possible hypothetically someone might slip up and accidentally send a message to that account from their regular email address.

Your opinion always carries a lot of weight with me and probably many more readers. As always you force us to look deep into what could have occurred. You are on the right track about people sharing the same e-mail account and sending an e-mail just to themselves and the co-conspirators have access to that e-mail account. But even more sneaky, IMO is all co-conspirators to have access to/share the e-mail account. The co-cons (short for co-conspirator, ok?...don't want anyone to get their knickers twisted) just have to log in and 1) Type out the email with the information that needs to be shared with the other co-cons 2) Then save the typed e-mail as a "DRAFT" 3) The other co-cons can open the email account and read the draft.....Voila nothing is ever sent!!

 

[amicuscurie]

Your opinion always carries a lot of weight with me and probably many more readers. As always you force us to look deep into what could have occurred. You are on the right track about people sharing the same e-mail account and sending an e-mail just to themselves and the co-conspirators have access to that e-mail account. But even more sneaky, IMO is all co-conspirators to have access to/share the e-mail account. The co-cons (short for co-conspirator, ok?...don't want anyone to get their knickers twisted) just have to log in and 1) Type out the email with the information that needs to be shared with the other co-cons 2) Then save the typed e-mail as a "DRAFT" 3) The other co-cons can open the email account and read the draft.....Voila nothing is ever sent!!

Wow, that’s pretty brilliant!