FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[liz b.]

BBM. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but didn't he say they had a fight or were arguing? That could be reason enough to turn it off, and perhaps the other phone in case he would try to reach her on that phone. It was late (10:30ish?) and had to be up early the next morning. As far as a phone being used as an alarm I think too much is being made about that. People often rely on that today but in 2006, not as much. She could shut it off and simply use on an alarm clock (remember those?).

But, if JK did turn both phones off that night, because of an argument with her BF, why did she not turn the phone on when she got up the next morning ?

 

[rd_jfc]

Actually there are no structural attributes to classify differences in an apartment versus a condo. They are virtually the same. Classification has to do with individual ownership, so no 'conversion' would be required. Any construction going on most likely had to do renovating.

Yes, conversion to condos is some renovation work.

 

[rd_jfc]

What I meant was that HOTG are referred to as HOTG condominiums at the beginning of this case. In the media and by LE. Not HOTG apartments, but HOTG condominiums.

Oh, I see. Wasn't aware of that. With the Mosaic being converted to condos maybe some confusion.

 

[JetsFan24]

Basic pinging and cell phones switching controlling tower is how cell phones work. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to move with a cell phone.

The phone carrier has to know what tower to direct a call for a call to get through to you. That tower is known to them by your cell phone pinging and establishing communications with towers, one of which will be designated as tower to send calls to you. When you move out of range the controlling tower will change. If there is no tower within range you have "no signal".

Basic ping recording for tower locations and making that info available to law enforcement is well known from many cases, one that preceded Jennifer's disappearance was Laci Peterson's disappearance and the determination of Scott Peterson's movements from his cell phone pinging. This is very basic stuff.

I understand that's in theory. But to clarify, this means that it is determined that the phone was turned off because it was now not pinging off any tower, right? Just trying to make sure that's how it is determined when a cell phone was shut off.

 

[Force Ten]

Yes, conversion to condos is some renovation work.

http://www.apartments.com/blog/difference-between-renting-an-apartment-or-condo

http://blog.rent.com/renting-a-condo-vs-apartment/

 

[kemo]

hi kemo, my prior post addressed the points in your post:
1) ping recording activity both required for a call to even take place and are tracking events where no calls are even made
2) irrelevance of location of towers recording pings as far as logged time concerned
3) location of Jennifer's cell phone not a factor in this or even being attempted re: time of activity
4) everything about range, predicted tower, etc. irrelevant, time stamp activty anywhere dtermines phone was on
5) lack of activity determines phone was off (i.e. last recorded ping time anywhere)

In addition to the technical stuff, Jennifer powering down her phone would also be turning off her alarm clock.

I'm still confused. Is there a record of pings that a cell provider can access after it has occurred? I am aware that, with a warrant, Law Enforcement can get a real time account of the location of any powered-up cell phone but they do not retain a record of the pings that had occurred in the past. Is this correct?

 

[rd_jfc]

http://www.apartments.com/blog/difference-between-renting-an-apartment-or-condo

http://blog.rent.com/renting-a-condo-vs-apartment/

You're apparently trying to tell me something. I have no idea what your point is.

 

[rd_jfc]

I'm still confused. Is there a record of pings that a cell provider can access after it has occurred? I am aware that, with a warrant, Law Enforcement can get a real time account of the location of any powered-up cell phone but they do not retain a record of the pings that had occurred in the past. Is this correct?

Yes, carriers (the cell networks) have a history of pings to access that they can provide to law enforcement. As you can imagine the capacity for doing this as increased dramatically as computing power increased and legal requirements have been made. This established that a cell phone was within communications range of a tower at time, that is all. That is all that is need though to show that the cell phone movements from one place to another, for example, such as Scott Peterson driving from Modesto to San Francisco Bay which was used in trial to place him at scene.

Location of a cell phone is a different matter and the technologies involved, tower location, triangulating with multiple towers, time delay in ping responses to estimate distance, and GPS location are not a field of expertise for me, and not involved in simply determining if cell phone was communicating with any tower (ping activity), which is all that is being talked about here with the 10:40 power off time for both cell phones (as told to Drew by someone he trusted enough to quote.)

 

[Force Ten]

But, if JK did turn both phones off that night, because of an argument with her BF, why did she not turn the phone on when she got up the next morning ?

Good point.

 

[Force Ten]

You're apparently trying to tell me something. I have no idea what your point is.

To quote my earlier post.

There are no structural attributes to classify differences in an apartment versus a condo. They are virtually the same. Classification has to do with individual ownership, so no 'conversion' would be required. Any construction going on most likely had to do renovating.

There's no converting anything, the only thing that changes is the ownership.

 

[rd_jfc]

To quote my earlier post.

There are no structural attributes to classify differences in an apartment versus a condo. They are virtually the same. Classification has to do with individual ownership, so no 'conversion' would be required. Any construction going on most likely had to do renovating.

There's no converting anything, the only thing that changes is the ownership.

Conversion to condos is the common terminology. At that time it was done to apartment complexes all over Florida, don't know about elsewhere. Construction workers are involved in a renovation that generally justified going from rent to a very significant purchase price. If you read Jennifer Kesse thread posts and news articles, you will see a constant reference to construction workers. The Mosaic was being converted from apartments to condos, and that's what the construction workers were doing there.

For example, I wrote this in 2008 -
Re: 48 Hours on Jennifer Kesse
"There was also an emphasis on construction workers working at her condo complex undergoing renovations and staying in empty apartments, and that Jennifer voiced concerns about them being around and staring at her. "

Hope that helps your understanding.

 

[htiff]

Conversion to condos is the common terminology. At that time it was done to apartment complexes all over Florida, don't know about elsewhere. Construction workers are involved in a renovation that generally justified going from rent to a very significant purchase price. If you read Jennifer Kesse thread posts and news articles, you will see a constant reference to construction workers. The Mosaic was being converted from apartments to condos, and that's what the construction workers were doing there.

For example, I wrote this in 2008 -
Re: 48 Hours on Jennifer Kesse
"There was also an emphasis on construction workers working at her condo complex undergoing renovations and staying in empty apartments, and that Jennifer voiced concerns about them being around and staring at her. "

Hope that helps your understanding.

The actual conversion from a rental unit to a condo, is a legal one. And from what I gathered looking at Mosaic in 2006 and now, they offered and still offer apartments for either rent or purchase.

But there was a lot of renovation going on when JK went missing, for sure. As well as an entire other complex being built directly behind Mosaic (I think.) Or the construction was an addition to the complex.

 

[shelly111]

jennifer felt uncomfortable around the workers, she was making safety calls and always had a phone with her.
she had a false sense of security having a phone and a mace,thinking she is safe.
Maybe one of the painters who did some work in her apt killed her. maybe it was someone from work, they knew jennifer just purchased a new home and
her boyfriend lives far away and she is living alone. maybe it was an obssesed client whoover heard this information.

 

[kemo]

The issue with the phone is really critical to this case. Drew did once say that he had been informed that both phones were powered off and their batteries removed at 10:40 PM Monday night. This is the sort of information that can drive an investigation.

By 2006, cell phones were in common usage in the US an a young woman with a job like Jennifer would be expected to keep her phone with her and on pretty much all of the time. There would be no reason to power the phone off except to preserve the charge when a charger wasn't available. If Jen's phone was really powered off at 10:40, something contrary to what would normally be expect has occurred. Any time a crime occurs at the same time and place that something contrary to what would normally be expect occurs, one has to consider that they are related and the occurrence may be a clue.

I have suspected that the 10:40 power off idea came about because either someone in Law Enforcement misinterpreted the cell phone records or Drew misunderstood what was explained to him. All other evidence points to a morning abduction. If both phones really were powered down and that, most likely something happened in a very short period of time that culminated in Jen's abduction and death.

 

[Force Ten]

Conversion to condos is the common terminology. At that time it was done to apartment complexes all over Florida, don't know about elsewhere. Construction workers are involved in a renovation that generally justified going from rent to a very significant purchase price. If you read Jennifer Kesse thread posts and news articles, you will see a constant reference to construction workers. The Mosaic was being converted from apartments to condos, and that's what the construction workers were doing there.

For example, I wrote this in 2008 -
Re: 48 Hours on Jennifer Kesse
"There was also an emphasis on construction workers working at her condo complex undergoing renovations and staying in empty apartments, and that Jennifer voiced concerns about them being around and staring at her. "

Hope that helps your understanding.

Condescending much? I provided 2 links for you that clearly explains the difference, and it's opposite of what you're implying. If there was construction happening it was because they were A) building new ones, or B) updating the current dwellings because they were rundown and dilapidated. It's a simple concept really.

Condo or apartment, it has zero to do with JK's disappearance so just nm.

 

[rd_jfc]

The actual conversion from a rental unit to a condo, is a legal one. And from what I gathered looking at Mosaic in 2006 and now, they offered and still offer apartments for either rent or purchase.

But there was a lot of renovation going on when JK went missing, for sure. As well as an entire other complex being built directly behind Mosaic (I think.) Or the construction was an addition to the complex.

Indeed. Conversion to condos is a legal conversion, and converting apartments to condos was the common terminology for the practice. However, it was common to perform major renovations on apartments before offering them for sale as condos to increase sale value. I have lived in Florida apartment complexes since 2005, was apartment hunting before that, and went to look at apartment complexes that all of a sudden were no longer renting but now condo complexes with units for sale signs.

My own apartment had a major renovation performed on it a few years ago but less renovation than would typically be done for a condo conversion. They are normally done in between tenants but I'm a long term tenant. I was given a furnished apartment for a week for the bulk of the work to be done.

Any units you see offered for rent in a condo complex are typically absentee owner condos or unsold condos. Just off top of my head condos would have less value in an apartment complex. Plus there was a major shakeout during 2008 mortgage crisis and the fuel that drove the condo conversion craze sort of burned out. I wouldn't compare anything going on nowadays to 2005.

I am quite surprised that anyone would think the Mosaic was putting up random construction workers like a motel by the week or month. You would find they were putting up their own temporary construction workers in unused, unconverted units.

 

[liz b.]

jennifer felt uncomfortable around the workers, she was making safety calls and always had a phone with her.
she had a false sense of security having a phone and a mace,thinking she is safe.
Maybe one of the painters who did some work in her apt killed her. maybe it was someone from work, they knew jennifer just purchased a new home and
her boyfriend lives far away and she is living alone. maybe it was an obssesed client whoover heard this information.

Curious to know exactly what JK did at her job ?

 

[kemo]

Curious to know exactly what JK did at her job ?

My understanding is that Jennifer was a Financial Analyst. She worked for Central Florida Investments which was the parent company of Westgate Resorts. The company developed, sold and managed time shares. Her department handled cash flow that was received from owners that included the mortgage payment and the management expenses.

She is credited with coming up with the idea of using an ACH (Automated Clearing House) to streamline the collection process. This is the system where customers instruct their bank to do a regular debit transfer, usually on a specific day each month. It much more efficient than processing checks in envelopes each month. Jennifer was apparently given the newly created job of implementing this system.

Any job that involves the handling of money could conceivably put an employee in the position of stumbling upon somebody else's maleficence. There have been suggestions floating around the internet that there was some sort of operation ripping off the company that would be put out of business with the implementation of ACH or Jennifer was somehow about to blow the whistle on those involved. I have no idea what information Jen would have been privy to but it sounds like the company was determined to implement ACH and if Jennifer was unavailable, someone else would have been given the task.

There certainly have been occasions where people kill co-workers because they were afraid that the co-worker was about to blow the whistle on fraud they were committing. I have always assumed that this was a sexually motivated murder but even pretty girls can have enemies. I would hope that avenue has been investigated.

 

[Brainy]

My understanding is that Jennifer was a Financial Analyst. She worked for Central Florida Investments which was the parent company of Westgate Resorts. The company developed, sold and managed time shares. Her department handled cash flow that was received from owners that included the mortgage payment and the management expenses.

She is credited with coming up with the idea of using an ACH (Automated Clearing House) to streamline the collection process. This is the system where customers instruct their bank to do a regular debit transfer, usually on a specific day each month. It much more efficient than processing checks in envelopes each month. Jennifer was apparently given the newly created job of implementing this system.

Any job that involves the handling of money could conceivably put an employee in the position of stumbling upon somebody else's maleficence. There have been suggestions floating around the internet that there was some sort of operation ripping off the company that would be put out of business with the implementation of ACH or Jennifer was somehow about to blow the whistle on those involved. I have no idea what information Jen would have been privy to but it sounds like the company was determined to implement ACH and if Jennifer was unavailable, someone else would have been given the task.

There certainly have been occasions where people kill co-workers because they were afraid that the co-worker was about to blow the whistle on fraud they were committing. I have always assumed that this was a sexually motivated murder but even pretty girls can have enemies. I would hope that avenue has been investigated.

Your thoughts do resonate. I had not seen anyone discuss this case from such perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I also believe that Jennifer's abduction was a sexually motivated crime or so something alike. It seemed smooth and premeditated, and it has never struck me that it was someone having personal grudge on Jen or wanted her out due to fraud exposure, etc. But what do I know? I would be the first to say that I don't know enough and if there was anything like that going on it would be hard for anyone to find out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[liz b.]

My understanding is that Jennifer was a Financial Analyst. She worked for Central Florida Investments which was the parent company of Westgate Resorts. The company developed, sold and managed time shares. Her department handled cash flow that was received from owners that included the mortgage payment and the management expenses.

She is credited with coming up with the idea of using an ACH (Automated Clearing House) to streamline the collection process. This is the system where customers instruct their bank to do a regular debit transfer, usually on a specific day each month. It much more efficient than processing checks in envelopes each month. Jennifer was apparently given the newly created job of implementing this system.

Any job that involves the handling of money could conceivably put an employee in the position of stumbling upon somebody else's maleficence. There have been suggestions floating around the internet that there was some sort of operation ripping off the company that would be put out of business with the implementation of ACH or Jennifer was somehow about to blow the whistle on those involved. I have no idea what information Jen would have been privy to but it sounds like the company was determined to implement ACH and if Jennifer was unavailable, someone else would have been given the task.

There certainly have been occasions where people kill co-workers because they were afraid that the co-worker was about to blow the whistle on fraud they were committing. I have always assumed that this was a sexually motivated murder but even pretty girls can have enemies. I would hope that avenue has been investigated.

I read that Mr. Kesse knew JK's boss. I think if she had somehow uncovered anything nefarious, she would have shared this with her father ? I think this crime was an unrequited love situation, but jmo.