FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[scadagirl28]

Even without getting into no contacts from phones all night and Tuesday morning, the worker thing of abducting Jennifer and driving her somewhere, where her remains have not been found to this day, then driving her car a mile up the road and parking it and walking back down the road to return is not the behavior of an anonymous murderer, especially an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker, not on official payroll, etc.

Do you have any idea what it takes to walk back down Americana to Mosaic, crossing John Young along the way? Do you have any idea what it takes to cross John Young? Do you think an illegal immigrant who just kidnapped and murdered an Amrican woman is going to walk down a major road for a mile back to the scene of the crime, being exposed as much as one can be exposed in the difficult crossing of a major throughway, because the illegal immigrant just wants to outsmart the cops so badly?

Where does this illegal immigrant meets Columbo thing come from? Yes, I know the answer is wishful thinking, but we should be beyond that after 12 years.

I believe it is called hiding in plain sight and it worked.

 

[Markybug]

The workers and the co-worker are the only people jenn mentioned having any issues with. And she supposedly (to her) dealt with the co-worker. No mention of the ex by her to anyone.

 

[rd_jfc]

By no means am I directing my comments at the last posts, this has been front and center and the mainstay of what was thought to have happened to Jennifer from the beginning.

What you have here is someone who's going to connive the cops (oh, I'll park her car a mile away at another apartment complex (Mosaic was apartments converted to condos, and let's just say only condo owners make the distinction), and then I'll walk back down Americana to Mosaic at high noon making sure people in hundreds of cars can see me along the way and the difficult feat of crossing a major thoroughfare along the way, for the purpose of OUTSMARTING the police. Sheesh, give me a break.

"Where was Jose?"
"I don't know, someone said they passed him walking down Americana."
"What was he doing walking down Americana?"
"Out for a lunch stroll?"
"Hey, wasn't that woman's car found up the road? Was he looking for it?"
'Yeah, that must be it, he was out searching for her, except we didn't know she was missing then. Hmmmmm"

 

[Truth Prevails]

Even without getting into no contacts from phones all night and Tuesday morning, the worker thing of abducting Jennifer and driving her somewhere, where her remains have not been found to this day, then driving her car a mile up the road and parking it and walking back down the road to return is not the behavior of an anonymous murderer, especially an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker, not on official payroll, etc.

Of course, it isn't, RD; they simply make good scapegoats. I'm not so sure about the painter; but I'm not so sure he was an illegal immigrant, either. The sexual assault charge concerns me; and if he passed a poly and was lying; he is one smooth operator.

Do you have any idea what it takes to walk back down Americana to Mosaic, crossing John Young along the way? Do you have any idea what it takes to cross John Young?

And he avoided the path; he avoided walking back to the turn in; but he made sure to walk around the pool where the security cameras were.

Do you think an illegal immigrant who just kidnapped and murdered an Amrican woman is going to walk down a major road for a mile back to the scene of the crime, being exposed as much as one can be exposed in the difficult crossing of a major throughway, because the illegal immigrant just wants to outsmart the cops so badly?

At high noon. Not an illegal immigrant, but who?

Where does this illegal immigrant meets Columbo thing come from? Yes, I know the answer is wishful thinking, but we should be beyond that after 12 years.

Nah, I think it comes from the Kesses. If we can't swallow the sex-trafficking theory; then this is the alternative they offer.

If you are still "around" I want to ask you for your permission to use tiny versions of your blow-ups in my signature line. I'm not sure how small they will appear, or even if we can anymore; but if it turns out I can--would it be alright with you? (Don't hesitate to say no, if that's your feeling).

Here is the way I'm thinking about adding them, but I'll probably make some adjustments. I'm not worried about having to make them smaller, because as you have said, it's still clear; but I might make the printing larger, or something like that.

 

[liz b.]

Even without getting into no contacts from phones all night and Tuesday morning, the worker thing of abducting Jennifer and driving her somewhere, where her remains have not been found to this day, then driving her car a mile up the road and parking it and walking back down the road to return is not the behavior of an anonymous murderer, especially an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker, not on official payroll, etc.

Do you have any idea what it takes to walk back down Americana to Mosaic, crossing John Young along the way? Do you have any idea what it takes to cross John Young? Do you think an illegal immigrant who just kidnapped and murdered an Amrican woman is going to walk down a major road for a mile back to the scene of the crime, being exposed as much as one can be exposed in the difficult crossing of a major throughway, because the illegal immigrant just wants to outsmart the cops so badly?

Where does this illegal immigrant meets Columbo thing come from? Yes, I know the answer is wishful thinking, but we should be beyond that after 12 years.

Well, since this is a crime message board, we are all Columbo to some extent. I do believe that this crime happened within a small area.I believe that Jennifer is still in that area, in a radius of about 1 to 1 1/2 miles of her condo. The men who killed her could not go far from her condo, probably because they were connected somehow to the condo. Quite possibly through work. Bodies of murder victims are sometimes not found, even after searches in the area where they are located. For example, Chandra Levy ( who I know you have done much research on ). I remember seeing a news report of police cadets doing a shoulder to shoulder line search in the park. They did not find her, even though she was there . And she was not even buried.
I believe also that this was an impulse crime, and that criminals of all different types will do whatever they have to do to avoid being caught. This is what I personally believe, I respect your posts here, and i'm happy to "agree to disagree".

 

[Ozoner]

It may have been an impulse crime, but I am not so sure about the radius. Anyone with access to a vehicle could have driven 5, 10, 20 miles without much difficulty. I'm not very familiar with that area. How far would one have to travel in order to be in a remote area ("out in the boonies," as some people are wont to say)?

 

[Truth Prevails]

By no means am I directing my comments at the last posts, this has been front and center and the mainstay of what was thought to have happened to Jennifer from the beginning.

What you have here is someone who's going to connive the cops (oh, I'll park her car a mile away at another apartment complex (Mosaic was apartments converted to condos, and let's just say only condo owners make the distinction), and then I'll walk back down Americana to Mosaic at high noon making sure people in hundreds of cars can see me along the way and the difficult feat of crossing a major thoroughfare along the way, for the purpose of OUTSMARTING the police. Sheesh, give me a break.

"Where was Jose?"
"I don't know, someone said they passed him walking down Americana."
"What was he doing walking down Americana?"
"Out for a lunch stroll?"
"Hey, wasn't that woman's car found up the road? Was he looking for it?"
'Yeah, that must be it, he was out searching for her, except we didn't know she was missing then. Hmmmmm"

Sorry I missed this comment earlier. I don't know how I managed that, but I did.

BBM - I dunno. The "heat" was being turned up fast when he dumped that car at the HOG--a known dumping ground for stolen vehicles, plus drugs.

I've read discussions from people who know the area well and they said that the POI would not have had to drive much further to find an area where he could have parked Jennifer's car and it wouldn't have been discovered for weeks, if even then.

So what were his intentions? To make a blazing and further defiling statement; or someone just in a hurry to get rid of a "hot" car?

I believe it's the first.

 

[rd_jfc]

Of course, it isn't, RD; they simply make good scapegoats. I'm not so sure about the painter; but I'm not so sure he was an illegal immigrant, either. The sexual assault charge concerns me; and if he passed a poly and was lying; he is one smooth operator.

And he avoided the path; he avoided walking back to the turn in; but he made sure to walk around the pool where the security cameras were.

At high noon. Not an illegal immigrant, but who?

Nah, I think it comes from the Kesses. If we can't swallow the sex-trafficking theory; then this is the alternative they offer.

If you are still "around" I want to ask you for your permission to use tiny versions of your blow-ups in my signature line. I'm not sure how small they will appear, or even if we can anymore; but if it turns out I can--would it be alright with you? (Don't hesitate to say no, if that's your feeling).

Here is the way I'm thinking about adding them, but I'll probably make some adjustments. I'm not worried about having to make them smaller, because as you have said, it's still clear; but I might make the printing larger, or something like that.

Every time you touch these things you add more class to it, Truth. Amazing detail you have focused there. Yes, by all means, please do. It adds some good focus to the discussion when we can see who we're talking about. Thanks.

 

[rd_jfc]

Well, since this is a crime message board, we are all Columbo to some extent. I do believe that this crime happened within a small area.I believe that Jennifer is still in that area, in a radius of about 1 to 1 1/2 miles of her condo. The men who killed her could not go far from her condo, probably because they were connected somehow to the condo. Quite possibly through work. Bodies of murder victims are sometimes not found, even after searches in the area where they are located. For example, Chandra Levy ( who I know you have done much research on ). I remember seeing a news report of police cadets doing a shoulder to shoulder line search in the park. They did not find her, even though she was there . And she was not even buried.
I believe also that this was an impulse crime, and that criminals of all different types will do whatever they have to do to avoid being caught. This is what I personally believe, I respect your posts here, and i'm happy to "agree to disagree".

Liz, just to clarify, meets Columbo is the murderer, not us. It means that the alleged laborer murderer concocted a fanciful plot to outsmart the police by parking her car a mile away and then walking back down this major road, crossing an even larger road (these many many lane roads are not easy to cross), in a wild scheme to outsmart the even more witless Orlando Police at high noon.

 

[liz b.]

Liz, just to clarify, meets Columbo is the murderer, not us. It means that the alleged laborer murderer concocted a fanciful plot to outsmart the police by parking her car a mile away and then walking back down this major road, crossing an even larger road (these many many lane roads are not easy to cross), in a wild scheme to outsmart the even more witless Orlando Police at high noon.

I believe the killer (s) was/were male. And, apparently they did indeed outsmart the police. I believe the killer(s) used Jennifer's vehicle to transport her body ( in the trunk, probably). He/they may not have had regular access to his/their own vehicle, and therefore he would have sought to bury Jennifer close enough to her condo for him to get back to the condo after he cleaned out and dumped the car. He had to go back to Mosaic.
Respectfully, this is my opinion of what likely happened.

 

[liz b.]

Sorry I missed this comment earlier. I don't know how I managed that, but I did.

BBM - I dunno. The "heat" was being turned up fast when he dumped that car at the HOG--a known dumping ground for stolen vehicles, plus drugs.

I've read discussions from people who know the area well and they said that the POI would not have had to drive much further to find an area where he could have parked Jennifer's car and it wouldn't have been discovered for weeks, if even then.

So what were his intentions? To make a blazing and further defiling statement; or someone just in a hurry to get rid of a "hot" car?

I believe it's the first.

I believe he cleaned out the vehicle and dumped it at HOTG out of sheer convenience. I also think Jennifer might well be buried in the wooded area behind HOTG.

 

[JnRyan]

I believe the killer (s) was/were male. And, apparently they did indeed outsmart the police. I believe the killer(s) used Jennifer's vehicle to transport her body ( in the trunk, probably). He/they may not have had regular access to his/their own vehicle, and therefore he would have sought to bury Jennifer close enough to her condo for him to get back to the condo after he cleaned out and dumped the car. He had to go back to Mosaic.
Respectfully, this is my opinion of what likely happened.

Orlando PD has always said all they got out of her car was a partial print and partial DNA. When Christina Morris was abducted LE found her blood, saliva and other forensic evidence from her in the killer's car and he had days to clean it out. I haven't heard anything like that here. And to the best of recollection, OPD did not ask the public if anyone saw the car after they found it.

I keep thinking that maybe he used her car to transport her. Makes sense because it avoids leaving forensic evidence in a vehicle that they own or use. But we never heard of any evidence of Jennifer in her trunk or anywhere else that would indicate he transported her. (Of course, OPD may have some, but just haven't told us.) If there is no evidence of a body in the car, did he use it transport her? It makes me think he used another vehicle.

Then again, why go back to the condo and move the car? Throw LE off the track? He took a chance of being seen while doing so. That was risky.

Every time I think about this I can think of reasons why he used her car to move her and reasons why he didn't. That is the problem with the gap in the time line from approximately 10:00 PM the day before to noon the next day.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I believe he cleaned out the vehicle and dumped it at HOTG out of sheer convenience. I also think Jennifer might well be buried in the wooded area behind HOTG.

It's all good, Liz.

The Dalai Lama said it best:

Disagreement is something normal.

 

[TedMac]

Orlando PD has always said all they got out of her car was a partial print and partial DNA. When Christina Morris was abducted LE found her blood, saliva and other forensic evidence from her in the killer's car and he had days to clean it out. I haven't heard anything like that here. And to the best of recollection, OPD did not ask the public if anyone saw the car after they found it.

I keep thinking that maybe he used her car to transport her. Makes sense because it avoids leaving forensic evidence in a vehicle that they own or use. But we never heard of any evidence of Jennifer in her trunk or anywhere else that would indicate he transported her. (Of course, OPD may have some, but just haven't told us.) If there is no evidence of a body in the car, did he use it transport her? It makes me think he used another vehicle.

Then again, why go back to the condo and move the car? Throw LE off the track? He took a chance of being seen while doing so. That was risky.

Every time I think about this I can think of reasons why he used her car to move her and reasons why he didn't. That is the problem with the gap in the time line from approximately 10:00 PM the day before to noon the next day.

BBM I totally agree. He may not have had a car and her car was probably used to transpot her to where she was murdered. I have always believed she was abducted either in or near her car and forced to drive to a remote location or possibly a residence. A lot has been said about why no one heard a scream, saw a commotion or found any of her belongings, but he may have had a gun or some other weapon and told her if you scream you're dead. One never knows how you will act if you are looking down the barrel of a gun.

I believe he used her car after he had disposed of her to drive himself to the HOG and he lived somewhere near there. I don't think he was so smart. If he was, he wouldn't have parked the car in a location that had a security camera. It was only his good luck that his picture wasn't caught on film. Though, he probably was smart enough to wipe the car down.

 

[liz b.]

Orlando PD has always said all they got out of her car was a partial print and partial DNA. When Christina Morris was abducted LE found her blood, saliva and other forensic evidence from her in the killer's car and he had days to clean it out. I haven't heard anything like that here. And to the best of recollection, OPD did not ask the public if anyone saw the car after they found it.

I keep thinking that maybe he used her car to transport her. Makes sense because it avoids leaving forensic evidence in a vehicle that they own or use. But we never heard of any evidence of Jennifer in her trunk or anywhere else that would indicate he transported her. (Of course, OPD may have some, but just haven't told us.) If there is no evidence of a body in the car, did he use it transport her? It makes me think he used another vehicle.

Then again, why go back to the condo and move the car? Throw LE off the track? He took a chance of being seen while doing so. That was risky.

Every time I think about this I can think of reasons why he used her car to move her and reasons why he didn't. That is the problem with the gap in the time line from approximately 10:00 PM the day before to noon the next day.[/QUOTE
He/they may have wrapped her before placing her in her vehicle. And buried her in the wrapping material ( plastic I would guess).

Orlando PD has always said all they got out of her car was a partial print and partial DNA. When Christina Morris was abducted LE found her blood, saliva and other forensic evidence from her in the killer's car and he had days to clean it out. I haven't heard anything like that here. And to the best of recollection, OPD did not ask the public if anyone saw the car after they found it.

I keep thinking that maybe he used her car to transport her. Makes sense because it avoids leaving forensic evidence in a vehicle that they own or use. But we never heard of any evidence of Jennifer in her trunk or anywhere else that would indicate he transported her. (Of course, OPD may have some, but just haven't told us.) If there is no evidence of a body in the car, did he use it transport her? It makes me think he used another vehicle.

Then again, why go back to the condo and move the car? Throw LE off the track? He took a chance of being seen while doing so. That was risky.

Every time I think about this I can think of reasons why he used her car to move her and reasons why he didn't. That is the problem with the gap in the time line from approximately 10:00 PM the day before to noon the next day.

Wonder if he/they wrapped her after she was killed, ( probably plastic),and then placed her in the trunk ? Ad then buried her in the wrapping ?

 

[Cherry]

I would like to know if the person in the now infamous video, resembles any of her brothers friends that had been in the apartment.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I would like to know if the person in the now infamous video, resembles any of her brothers friends that had been in the apartment.

The family says no.

The thing is, the person in the video probably looks quite different. They are not sure of something as simple as his height.

 

[Cherry]

Thanks Truth!

 

[JnRyan]

BBM I totally agree. He may not have had a car and her car was probably used to transpot her to where she was murdered. I have always believed she was abducted either in or near her car and forced to drive to a remote location or possibly a residence. A lot has been said about why no one heard a scream, saw a commotion or found any of her belongings, but he may have had a gun or some other weapon and told her if you scream you're dead. One never knows how you will act if you are looking down the barrel of a gun.

I believe he used her car after he had disposed of her to drive himself to the HOG and he lived somewhere near there. I don't think he was so smart. If he was, he wouldn't have parked the car in a location that had a security camera. It was only his good luck that his picture wasn't caught on film. Though, he probably was smart enough to wipe the car down.

I often compare Jennifer's case to Jodi Huisentruit's case. Jodi was abducted at her car outside her apartment in Mason City IA. Residents heard a scream. Her shoes and some of her belongings such as her hair dryer were scattered near her car as well as her the key to her car was bent as if she had it in the door lock when she was grabbed. We don't have ANY of that here with Jennifer.

 

[kudo623]

Transcript from Criminal Profiler Pat Brown on HLN 12/24/08.

“Well I think we’ve got someone who is very cool, calm and collected, someone who has committed a crime before, sounds to me like a serial Predator.

I would guess that Jennifer’s apartment complex was ground zero because that’s where she got missing out of. How he got in there, was he working at the complex, was he visiting somebody or was he right outside the front of the complex I don’t know.

My guess is he was armed which is what made him easier to
control her without leaving any you know blood in the car or anything like that. Taking her someplace doing what he wanted , probably getting her out of the vehicle to do it and then taking the vehicle back.

Now this guy probably doesn’t have a car of his own which is why he is grabbing vehicles and not using his own car to abduct somebody. So he grabs this woman with a vehicle and then when he’s finished he decides he’s going to
first of all has to return to where he lives because he doesn’t want to have a long walk back.

So he’s a local fellow, brings that car back to a complex he knows very well (HOTG), has all kinds of squirrely people in it, parks it carefully, looks for his window of opportunity for nobody to be around to watch him and gets up and walks away.

The valuables, my guess is that he probably wanted somebody to break into the car, take the car, do something with it, leave other evidence and then he’s “scott free”.